Given the following, which will hook less for the a symmetrical ball?

1. 50x5x50
2. 50x2x50

I think alot will depend on lane condition and surface prep.  In some cases, the 2" pin will seem to hook more and in some cases the 5" pin will hook more.  The 2" ball can have the appearance it is hooking more from front part of the lane to the back whereas the 5" ball will generally have not as much lane read in the front part but much more on the back part.  The overall amount of hook for the most part will be similar but the type of hook will be way different.

Quote from: JohnP on October 29, 2012, 10:44:25 AM

The 50/2"/50 will flare less and will, for most bowlers, hook less.  --  JohnP

Hey John,
Wouldnt the 50x5x50 be weaker since on a symmetrical ball, 3-3/8" is the max flare position and the 5" to pap is further (1-5/8) compared to the 1-3/8 of the 2" position?

That's what I was thinking as well....

Hook is a relative term. Depends if you are talking overall hook shape or how angular the backend hook is. Same thing I deal with everyone in my pro shop. Surface prep is 70 to 80 % of the key, not layout.

Very True. And not to take away from your fact, but, i think the OP is referring to the layout properties. The pin distances will make flare of the symmetrical about the same, however, without a determinator, its almost impossible to figure the true PSA and values of the angles. As we've seen, the PSA doesnt always end up in the thumb of symmetricals. Pin to PAP will also have an adverse affect on the position of the CG affecting statics (ie weighthole).

Quote from: JohnP on October 29, 2012, 10:44:25 AM

The 50/2"/50 will flare less and will, for most bowlers, hook less.  --  JohnP

Hey John,
Wouldnt the 50x5x50 be weaker since on a symmetrical ball, 3-3/8" is the max flare position and the 5" to pap is further (1-5/8) compared to the 1-3/8 of the 2" position? I mean I know its pretty close either way but that was my thinking process.

You're right, I didn't take the time to do the math.  I think I have the tendency to consider the 5" pin to PAP stronger because it breaks further down the lane (hockey stick vs banana).  --  JohnP

There is one thing that I haven't seen brought up, and that's core shape.

If the core shape is tall and narrow, the 2 inch pin will hook less than the 5 inch pin.

Example, the 900 Global Link. http://www.900global.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=125

RG 2.61 Diff .003 Intermediate Diff .005

Tall weightblock. Lay that core down towards the axis, and I bet dollars to donuts that it will hook less than if you stand that core up at 5 inches from pap.

Now, on something that isn't so tall, like say... a 900 Global Sure Thing, and the differences wouldn't be as dramatic.

http://www.900global.com/index.php/products/balls/sure-thing.html

RG 2.49 Diff .043

Thx for all the input. Will do the rest with trial and error and see the differences for myself.

You also have to remember that a shorter pin to pap will make you keep your angle through the heads straighter, due to how the ball reads friction. Here's a good picture for you to imagine when thinking about it.

Take an egg, and try rolling it end over end. The egg will always find it's "PSA" (being on it's side) in a shorter time being rolled with the smaller end of the egg (top of the core) closer to the PSA than further away. The further away you put the pin (top of the egg) from the PSA and try to roll it end over end, the more it lopes, but when it starts to move towards the PSA, it will be a less smooth motion.

That, in essence, is how a weight block works. Every time I've wanted to open up a lane, I have gone with a longer pin to pap, and every time I've wanted to tighten up my angles, I've gone to a shorter pin to pap.

On Edit: This is only for symmetricals.