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Author Topic: Mass Bias past the VAL?  (Read 8023 times)

lefty50

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Mass Bias past the VAL?
« on: April 10, 2018, 10:49:34 AM »
Thinking I saw something about this before....

Is there ever any reason to place MB past the VAL?

Thanks
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ignitebowling

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 11:00:41 AM »
Youtube and Track Alias promo videos
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 11:18:03 AM »

Track Presents Cores 101 - A Primer On The Effect Drilling Has On Cores


Alias - An In-Depth Look at the Engineering and Principles Behind Track's Latest
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DP3

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 12:42:46 PM »
A lot of Assymetrical's will do the same thing with that layout, which essentially stands the ball up super-quick and then provides a heavy rolling arc through the rest of the lane. The further out you kick it past the VAL, you could run into some hook/stop reaction. About 15-20 years ago (can't believe I'm saying that), 315 degree layouts were all the rage as they helped the strong assymetrical balls of the time react more smoothly off of the friction. A lot of guys on tour were doing this with the Apex balls of the early 2000s.

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Juggernaut

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 12:51:10 PM »
Had a Killer Instinct solid with a pin up, 0 degree (according to the chart in the post above) that rolled great for me.

 One of the few asymmetric I have liked.
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lefty50

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 01:00:06 PM »
Great chart, thanks, but it doesn't specify whether it's past the VAL. One could assume that the 0 degree is on PAP and on VAL...
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DP3

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 01:09:30 PM »
You would be absolutely right in that assumption. Zero degree's is a straight line from the pin, through the PAP.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 01:27:35 PM »
Quote from: lefty50 on April 10, 2018, 01:00:06 PM
Great chart, thanks, but it doesn't specify whether it's past the VAL. One could assume that the 0 degree is on PAP and on VAL...


 The chart is just a generalist. Your 75 degree drilling won’t look exactly like my 75 degree drilling. It is just a rough chart to give you an idea of what to expect from a drilling of that angle for your individual specs.

 The mb is 6 3/4 inches from the pin. Unless your pap is almost 7 over, it would have to be past the Val, unless you drilled a long pin out ball with the pin far enough from the pap to compensate for it. I don’t think I have ever seen anybody drill a ball with a seven inch pin to pap though.

 The KI solid I had had the cg on the pap, drilled back to static legal, with the mb past the val. Real smooth and rolly reaction.

 If your pap is 7 over, to me, that ain’t normal. Most are in the 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 over range. I suppose it’s possible, I just haven’t ever seen that.

Short of that, 0 degrees would HAVE to put the mb past the Val, wouldn’t it?
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DP3

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 02:14:34 PM »
If your PAP is 7" over, you need a full roller layout to pull the bowtie to your palm area and to get the rings off the holes. Either that or get your thumb out of the freakin ball. LOL
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lefty50

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 03:28:32 PM »
Got it. I was looking at the chart as an angle, not considering the MB was an actual distance, but I see your point. In many cases, MB will by default have to be past VAL. Although roughly, it looks like maybe that could cease to be true around 45 degrees? I'll have to go home and do some measuring....
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DP3

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 03:45:03 PM »
45 degrees is 45 degrees from your VAL period. For some people 45deg may be 2" left of the thumb, for a low track guy, 45 deg may be right under the thumb. The degree of the drilling angle isn't predicated on your grip. It's a line of the pin to the MB 6 3/4" in respect to a line from the pin to your PAP which makes the drilling angle. Then the 2nd angle is the space between the line of the pin to PAP and your VAL.

A lot of people mistake 45 deg as having strict association with your grip (t-line).

If your axis is 3" over, your VAL is going to be much closer to your center of grip, if it's 6" over it's going to be much farther away.
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JustRico

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 05:34:22 PM »
VAL is irrelevant in ball motion as it’s not a static point...most translate it incorrectly
There are no straight lines on a round object
Place the pin to create flare
Place the mass bias to influence created flare
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lefty50

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Re: Mass Bias past the VAL?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 05:56:53 PM »
Rico, can you elaborate on the MB position and it's influence? Does "influence" equate to shape, or to breakpoint, or to ease of putting the core in motion?
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