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Author Topic: snappy balls  (Read 3124 times)

tempo

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snappy balls
« on: September 23, 2003, 01:17:31 PM »
Hi guys,

There are two recent entries in the ball market - Columbia300 Throttle
and Brunswick Time Zone. Don't their cores look similar? I wonder who
'inspire' whom? One thing I would say about these two balls is, despite
the difference in oil conditions they are design for due to coverstock,
they both SNAP?! They turn the corner as if somebody hit them with a
baseball bat, INCREDIBLE!!!

So far all D/T ball utilise symmetrical weight blocks and I understand
Phil C's point of view in this. The Element core should flip but it's
coverstock tends to smooth it out. The only one close is Vendetta pearl.
The Things Returns claims to give great backend but still, with the Triton
weight block I doubt it would 'snap' that much.

Do you people agree that it might be a good idea for D/T to have some
snappy balls in the range to compliment others?

Thanks.
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bamaster

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2003, 11:00:17 AM »
Are you saying that "snappy" reactions are a good thing?

It's the kiss of death for me.

A strong turn is one thing, but if it bounces you are not throwing the right ball for the pattern.  Slow it down a little bit and you'll go through the beak, wing it out a little bit and it's a washout.  Strike or split.  Who wants that?  

Tony Melendez
http://www.allBowling.com
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tempo

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2003, 04:24:20 AM »
Yes. I think 'snappy' reactive CAN be a good thing. It's not better then arc or flip but it is an alternative. If you throw the ball slower and it's through the nose? It's obviously the wrong ball to use.

I'm sure almost every bowler had experienced one of those days when all he/she left was the corners, no matter how they changed(line, speed, hand position, etc) Todays game, winning or losing depends on the 'carry'. If you are a pro and have time to practise every day and have the same ball drilled with 10 different layout, and have an A, B, C....Z game then you wouldn't need them. Otherwise, bowling balls are all tools and personally, I would always prefer more different tools in my bag.
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bamaster

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2003, 01:02:34 PM »
If I assume correctly, two things have to happen to have a snap.  I am defining a "snap" as the ball basically riccocheting with not arc at all.

1. The ball will have to be layed out so that it doesn't flip till late, maybe with the pin up and over the fingers and the CG kicked in.  
2. There will need to be an extreme transition from the oil to the dry backends.  

The problem with this scenario is that the oil will carry down, and as such the breakpoint will move.  Even if you are dead accurate and consistent, the reaction will change as the breakpoint moves.  And most house shots put dry on the gutters adding another potential breakpoint if the ball hits the outside.

I have no idea how to design bowling balls, but I doubt this effect is an engineering objective.  Chris Barnes believes that there is no such thing as leaving a corner pin on a perfect strike.  If you are leaving corners, you are not playing the shot correctly.  Angle of entry has a lot to do with it, in my opinion.  I was talking to Dyno-thane's Billy Yinger yesterday and he was telling me that in this one house, his ball can't be rolling if he wants to carry... he wants the ball to be spinning when it hits the pocket.  Where in other houses his objective is to have the ball in a roll on impact.  

Personally, I think the snappy reaction is impressive to watch, especially when it strikes, but I don't think it's the smart way to play the lanes.  Just my thoughts.

Tony Melendez
http://www.allBowling.com
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Phillip Marlowe

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2003, 04:01:32 PM »
Maybe NZ is seeing some people with some serious side roll throw the Throttle and Time Zone.  Cause the fact is, neither of those balls is particularly "snappy".  The Throttle can't be, the cover is too dull and grabs too early -- it hooks, but it isn't snappy.  The Time Zone is a hard arc ball, not a skid-snap ball, in fact, with many drillings it behaves rather nicely.  Nor is the Throttle-R a particularly snappy ball -- the coverstock lengthens the breakpoint and tames what looks like it would be a very snappy ball into something that can be used on wet-dries.

My Element actually turns the corner better than the Throttle-R and the Time Zone.  The Vendetta is flippier.  None of the Dynothane stuff out there now is quite like the Messenger TIs, the Cuda, the Voodoo or any number of Storm balls, but they do make the corner well enough.  Frankly, I would like to see another high differential ball coming out of Dynothane because the Element is such a great piece of equipment and, also maybe they could make a real super oiler.  But a pure skid-flip...for very few bowlers would that be the right choice.  Now, many bowlers THINK they want super-flippy stuff, but most need only variations on length and energy storage.  I think P.Cardinale designs equipment to fill out useful reactions, not to have a flippy look.

My seven and a half cents.
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"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."

Edited on 9/29/2003 4:13 PM
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tburky

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2003, 10:04:25 PM »
Personally, if I have a ball that is flipping or snapping off the dry (such as a fresh condition), I have the wrong ball and/or layout in my hand. On a fresh shot I want the ball to arc off the dry and most generally I will use a layout that has a 1:00 pin/cg layout depending on the pattern length. Sometimes depending on the length of the fresh pattern, I will use a ball that is drilled pin 3 to 3-1/2" from my axis and cg 1 " from axis so that the ball revs and stops. Also, I try to stay up the back of the ball more. As, the oil pushes down my layouts tend to be more towards the 10:30 position because I want the ball to turn the corner.  In this scenario the ball is stronger but since there is carry down I need the ball to corner. Again this is not a snap or flip move.  There is other layouts I do use depending on lane conditions. The point I am trying make is this. You do not want the ball to snap or flip. It is harder to control, erratic at the breakpoint, and actually will give you more over/under. I believe that the more the ball flips or snaps the more single pins and splits you leave because you have no control of the ball. In my opinion, part of the game of bowling is controlling the break point so that you get a better read of the lane and know what moves to make. I agree with Bamaster about Mr. Barnes statement if you leaving corner pins you are not playing the lane correctly.

Edited on 9/27/2003 10:14 PM

Edited on 10/3/2003 6:24 AM
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tempo

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2003, 04:02:38 AM »
I should have proof-read my post before I submit shouldn't I. Yes I meant the Throttle/R.

OK. It sound like no one seconds to what I said. Let me ask you: Why do companies out there bother make balls which would snap or flip? (Don't say for people like me!!) Are these balls just waste of time? Are they never useful on any lane condition?
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srlunatic

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2003, 04:33:21 AM »
Throw my 2 cents in....

When I need a skid/snap reaction is when I am playing deep inside ......and basically playing up the heaviest oil on the lane....and want it to exit the oil a couple feet infront of the headpin....and then snap into the pocket.....

Have scored high with this when the conditions have permetted that shot.......but this is about the only shot I use a skid/snap type of setup...

Hope this helps.....


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LuckyLefty

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Re: snappy balls
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2003, 07:51:26 AM »
My Time Zone is NOT snappy!  It is archy!

Could be drilling.

CG kicked out.  I have a very similar REBEL ECX which is drilled more like a label leverage and that really snaps for a solid.

I've seen Throttle R and think fairly snappy.  Just picked up a Reaction Rip, even with my weak right hand that thing is snappy and exciting!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS thought the Vendetta Red reactive was pretty snappy looking and very good.
PPS Snappy can be good when you need it!
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