Author Topic: charlest----THING? (Read 4667 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **on:** July 08, 2003, 07:12:07 AM »

Hey, you mentioned awhile back that you were going to drill a Thing....have you yet and if so what did you think? I love the ball. I am considering an Element right now.

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2003, 10:49:17 PM »

Yup, I got it; not quite ready to make a world-wide statement (I think y'all call that a review.) but here's what has happened so far. I drilled it roughly 4x4, with a 2" pin-to-Cg distance, no weight hole, mostly because of most people saying it's such an even ball.

I threw it once on a medium-heavy oil in practice at a well maintained house (dry-ish 1-5; less oil, but still medium oil on boards 6-10). These were the first 2 - 3 games on the ball, stock cover. Kind of disappointed; it moved relatively little in the backend, but with good length. Backend was almost too even. I had to get straighter and straighter; had started standing 30, for a breakpoint of 6/7. Wound up standing almost 20. Figured I had to crack the surface. Too much oil.

Next I took it to a Summer league, 5 games singles scratch; different pair, different opponent each game - lotsa fun!
Generally this house has medium-light oil, soaked Guardian heads, wooden rear half of the lane. Well, Kowbunga! Darn ball came to life AND ALMOST BURNED ITSELF OUT. Decent length, maybe 36-38 feet before it grabbed HARD! and large backend - had pull area AND swing area, for the first game and a half. Then it was too much. Hitting power was up to its reputation.

So now I'm kind of up in the air. Did those 4-5 games "crack" the shell enough to go back and use on the medium heavy oil??
Can't tell you for sure. I went to practice this morning at this same place and there were no open lanes til 1 PM, a 2 hour wait. I had work to do back home, 35 minutes away. Maybe tomorrow.

Review at a later date, when I have several performances and the ball has "stabilized". (I also promised a full Barrage review, but my use of it has not been enough to justify a full review yet.)

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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

Edited on 7/8/2003 10:56 PM

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2003, 11:40:42 PM »

charlest....that sounds about right. When on heavy oil, but it away, you have to have dry backends or atleast something dry for the ball to make contact with. AND, like you did, you will have to square up.

When it hits dry there may be only a few balls with bigger backend. As far as oil though, this is not their biggest hooking ball.

Sir Bowl-A-Lot · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2003, 07:45:44 AM »

What balls have a bigger backend than The Thing EXCAL?
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"Holla If Ya Hear Me!"

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2003, 08:27:17 AM »

quote:
What balls have a bigger backend than The Thing EXCAL?
--------------------
"Holla If Ya Hear Me!"

For me:
AZO Drastic Spec-R (3.75x5.5 drilling)
Riot Zone (4x5 drilling)
AMF Nighthawk Revenge (pin above the Bridge, 5 x 4 )
Track VooDoo (4.5x3 drilling)

all have a larger to much larger backend.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2003, 08:31:57 AM »

quote:
at the first house, did you compare it with another ball?

I also used a VooDoo, and a Pro Purple Buzzsaw. The VooDoo I had dulled down to 1200 grit as a test also. It burned up too early and I left a lot of ringing 10 pins, no matter where I lined up. I polished it back up and was going to test it with the Thing again.

My Pro Purple is my oiler; it hooks earlier and more, even in box finish (Cerium trizact). I stand around 30 with breakpoint around 6/7, in this house.

Excaliber,

Note: This house is medium heavy oil, not heavy oil.

WHile as I said, I need to throw it more on more conditions, my feeling is that it's a medium to medium light oil pattern ball, that may be able to handle small amounts of carrydwon in box cover condition. It is a pearl/polished solid cover, after all.

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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

jensm · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2003, 09:25:11 AM »

"I drilled it roughly 4x4, with a 2" pin-to-Cg distance, no weight hole, mostly because of most people saying it's such an even ball."

Charlest,

Have you drawn any conclusions about the layout yet? I ask because I soon will get one Thing drilled.

Regards,

Jens
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jensm

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2003, 01:47:08 PM »

jensm,

4x4 is almost stacked leverage, but this is only a 1.75" pin. The ball, for me and my release, is so even it's disgusting; well, not quite. But that evenness makes it an ideal benchmark ball.

To Excalibur and others,

REMINDER: this is a medium heavy oil pattern, just as described above. In box condition, this ball is intended for medium to medium-light, I believe.

Also keep in mind, that 3" or 4" pin will add length and flare and backend. I have slightly better than medium revs, tweener. I normally get all the flip I can handle because my revs to speed ratio is on the high side.

Threw 4 more games, mostly comparing ball reactions: (just measured them all)
Thing (1.75" pin-to-CG, 3.75x4, label) -------------- 16 lb
VooDoo (2" pin, 4.5 x 3.25, wt hole at 5.5" over) --- 15 lb
Pro Purple (2.5" pin, 4x5, label, no wt hole) ------- 15 lb
and Igniter (2.75" pin-to-CG, 3x4.5 drilling, label - 15 lb

See oil pattern description above.
Thing and VooDoo were played with the same line: Standing 23/24, targeting 6 board at breakpoint, about 40 feet down; Spookily, they had almost the same breakpoint, with the Thing sometimes about 1" longer.
With the Pro Purple (also an extremely even ball) I was standing about 28
and also aiming for about 6 board.
Igniter: this ball is drilled to force it to be more even. I was afraid to would be too skid/flip as many reviews stated. Today was the first time I could score well with it, but I had to make sure I hit the dry, 4 or 5 board at breakpoint. I stood about 19/20,the ball hit the foul line at about 15 board and went out to 4 board, and most amazingly did not snap, but arc'd to the pocket - no overreaction. I was stunned; pins just fell down - never did this before. I had never scored before at all with this ball. I thought the drilling killed it. Will try it in league tonight...

Thing:
Small pin, very even reaction, nice hook, the amount of hardly changed even trying stroker and high rev release, besides normal release. flip? not on a bet. If the darn thing weren't so expensive, and circumstances were different, I'd try a ball with a 3 - 3.25 pin-to-CG distance just to see if I could make it flip.

VooDoo: as you can tell, I drilled it to control the ball's natural flippiness (on a suggestion from a friend) and it is very controllable now. I'd love to try this one ion a 4x5 with a 2.5-3" pin-to-CG distance. Betcha I could make it flip!

Results:
- too much control is not a good thing all the time.
- Experiments are often the only way to reveal a ball's nature.

To future buyers of Things, more power can probably be obtained with 2-4" pin-to-CG distances and stacked drillings of 4-5" are suggested. Be aware that on the medium light conditions (on which I will try it along with the Igniter tonight) this 1.75" pin ball is a STRONG reacting ball for me and my release. Suggested condition is medium to medium-heavy for tweeners;
medium to medium-light oil for strokers.

--------------------
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

Edited on 7/9/2003 1:51 PM

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2003, 04:08:39 PM »

quote:

2. The Voodoo. Bet you can make it flip. Yep, yup, yessireeeBob. Flippy. But on the same line as the Thing? We gotta talk.
"It's just a carry contest."

Look at the core angle of those 2 balls!!
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2003, 09:26:11 PM »

In my opinion, the mutant has probably the biggest backend of any ball I have ever thrown.

The Thing is probably just a hair below (backendwise) than my Freak Out. I thought it was actually more, but side by side on the same pattern the Freak Out is about 2 boards stronger.
FOR ME----it is tons stronger than the Voo Doo. Lets see.....and the Apex Adrenaline is stronger in the backend than the THING....but the THING is stonger backend than anything I have had besides these balls.

Also, for me, the Thing does arc...but it is definately a great mixture of FLIT AND ARC.

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2003, 12:01:20 AM »

quote:
core angle?

The line of the pin to the CG compared to the line from the pin to PAP is an angle. Compare that angle for my Thing vs my VooDoo. It's basically a 1:30 drilling vs 10:30 drilling - HUGE difference in ball reaction!
--------------------
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2003, 12:06:45 AM »

quote:
In my opinion, the mutant has probably the biggest backend of any ball I have ever thrown.

The Thing is probably just a hair below (backendwise) than my Freak Out. I thought it was actually more, but side by side on the same pattern the Freak Out is about 2 boards stronger.
FOR ME----it is tons stronger than the Voo Doo. Lets see.....and the Apex Adrenaline is stronger in the backend than the THING....but the THING is stonger backend than anything I have had besides these balls.

Also, for me, the Thing does arc...but it is definately a great mixture of FLIT AND ARC.

I was careful to post the pin - to CG distance and the drilligns for my balls.
Don't forget that these factors can make tremendous differences in any one ball. Mix 4 or 5 balls, people's releases and oil patterns and the number of variables you're comparing grow geometrically and their interactions grow exponentially.

One must be !VERY! careful when trying to draw conclusions about how a ball will react unless you FIX many of these factors. One in a particular is the pin-to-CG distance. The larger this is the more a ball will flare. The more it flares, the more the flare influences the ball's final reaction IN MANY WAYS. This is why I said what my pin distance was several times. A larger one, say 3"+, (versus my small pin distance of 1.75") can possibly make a ball significantly more flippy. (Maybe not the Thing) This is just one example.

Comparing balls, definitively is a very tricky business.

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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

Edited on 7/10/2003 0:12 AM

jensm · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2003, 12:44:02 PM »

I just noticed something when reading a Mo Pinel article in BTM November 2002. To Mo, "bowling balls with asymmetric cores have the strongest mass bias and are, therefore, the most versatile". Phil says that asymmetrical designs easily become to specific and favours symmetrical cores for their versatility.

I don't know enough about the subject to have an opinion. Maybe I will learn more when I have had my Thing a while.

Regards,

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jensm

jensm · « **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2003, 02:41:19 AM »

King,

I think that balls with symmetrical cores maybe easier to handle on tight tournament conditions where transition happens really fast. Less surprises. Naturally, the bowler's style and level of competency also comes into play. I have no preference Ã½et myself. I like my three Ebonite balls with asymmetrical cores a lot. But I also liked the symmetrical Zone balls that I had before. I really cannot say more than that. Need much more experience.

Regards,
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jensm

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2003, 08:56:50 AM »

King,

I am inclined to agree with your assessment (thanx for chiming in!). I think Jensm is saying the same thing, only he doesn't realize that he does have enough experience. MB/asymmetric cored balls are very versatile: I turned one into a symmetric core by putting the MB under the thumb hole (at least that's what someone told me was the result of what I did to an original Apex Reflex). I never did get that ball to react well for me and it should have been perfect for a medium heavy oil pattern on which I always have trouble. Maybe I should left it with the Mass Bias in tact?
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

Author Topic: charlest----THING? (Read 4667 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Sir Bowl-A-Lot

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