Author Topic: INSIDER TRADING INFO (Read 9867 times)

tekneek · « **on:** March 06, 2006, 02:54:57 AM »

Had a visitor this morning, dressed in an all black suit, white shirt with black tie,and dark shades driving a black SUV with black windows and spoke in riddles in regards to a weapon being tested near Area 51 on Friday. He spoke in reference to a "Purple Haze" at first I assumed he was speaking of Jimmy, but after playing back the tape of the conversation it was also mentioned with a weapon having an extremely high muzzle velocity, anybody out there??
--------------------
Steve
Stars N Strikes Pro Shop
www.dynothane.com

Capt Ramius "Vacilli, give me one ping, and one ping only"

newguy · « **Reply #31 on:** March 07, 2006, 01:52:09 PM »

If asking for Scientific Facts and proof is bad mouthing than I am guilty as charged, than I propose that anyone not questioning the scientific validity of "many bogus" claims is simply a naive individual looking to be duped out of hard earned cash.
I have everything to lose by not thoroughly investigating and demanding scientific proof since MY NAME GOES ON IT. I must state that I am one of only a select few who can claim that,when Brunswick has a bad ball you never hear the persons name who designed it associated with the lemon.
So I profess that we will build only product based on science. Who else can claim that?

Edited on 3/7/2006 3:04 PM

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #32 on:** March 07, 2006, 05:50:14 PM »

quote:
If asking for Scientific Facts and proof is bad mouthing than I am guilty as charged, than I propose that anyone not questioning the scientific validity of "many bogus" claims is simply a naive individual looking to be duped out of hard earned cash.

Phil,...there you go again ...calling others "bogus." My point was simple, you take open shots at other companies (and people....and you and many others know who they are) about their product...call asymm stuff "smoke and mirrors" , then go ahead and do strong asymm stuff yourself. It just appears hypocritical, that's all. Just let your product do the talking....you're like a radio station that bad mouths other stations......let the product do the talking, not the owner!

Come down from up there Phil...the weather is fine on the ground!

quote:
I have everything to lose by not thoroughly investigating and demanding scientific proof since MY NAME GOES ON IT.

No argument there, ....but then again, no one said your name DIDN'T go on it either....

quote:
I must state that I am one of only a select few who can claim that,when Brunswick has a bad ball you never hear the persons name who designed it associated with the lemon.

Understood, but really, don't all of you guys know who designs balls for others ?!? huh?

quote:
So I profess that we will build only product based on science. Who else can claim that?

Uhmmmmm.....last time I checked....both symmetrical and asymmetrical bowling balls have some scientific (physics) factors to them....all of them do. Not just yours Superman

This "science" and bowling thing has been going on for some time now hasn't it?

--------------------
JEFF
"...nowhere is the dreamer, or the misfit so alone...."

newguy · « **Reply #33 on:** March 07, 2006, 09:51:27 PM »

quote:
quote:
If asking for Scientific Facts and proof is bad mouthing than I am guilty as charged, than I propose that anyone not questioning the scientific validity of "many bogus" claims is simply a naive individual looking to be duped out of hard earned cash.

Phil,...there you go again ...calling others "bogus." My point was simple, you take open shots at other companies (and people....and you and many others know who they are) about their product...call asymm stuff "smoke and mirrors" , then go ahead and do strong asymm stuff yourself. It just appears hypocritical, that's all. Just let your product do the talking....you're like a radio station that bad mouths other stations......let the product do the talking, not the owner!

HA HA HA not even worth a response. Personal attacks usually are a sign of insecurity.

Come down from up there Phil...the weather is fine on the ground!

quote:
I have everything to lose by not thoroughly investigating and demanding scientific proof since MY NAME GOES ON IT.
No argument there, ....but then again, no one said your name DIDN'T go on it either....

quote:
I must state that I am one of only a select few who can claim that,when Brunswick has a bad ball you never hear the persons name who designed it associated with the lemon.
Understood, but really, don't all of you guys know who designs balls for others ?!? huh?

quote:
So I profess that we will build only product based on science. Who else can claim that?

Uhmmmmm.....last time I checked....both symmetrical and asymmetrical bowling balls have some scientific (physics) factors to them....all of them do. Not just yours Superman This "science" and bowling thing has been going on for some time now hasn't it?

--------------------
JEFF
"...nowhere is the dreamer, or the misfit so alone...."

newguy · « **Reply #34 on:** March 07, 2006, 09:59:22 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
If asking for Scientific Facts and proof is bad mouthing than I am guilty as charged, than I propose that anyone not questioning the scientific validity of "many bogus" claims is simply a naive individual looking to be duped out of hard earned cash.

Phil,...there you go again ...calling others "bogus." My point was simple, you take open shots at other companies (and people....and you and many others know who they are) about their product...call asymm stuff "smoke and mirrors" , then go ahead and do strong asymm stuff yourself. It just appears hypocritical, that's all. Just let your product do the talking....you're like a radio station that bad mouths other stations......let the product do the talking, not the owner!

Come down from up there Phil...the weather is fine on the ground!

quote:
I have everything to lose by not thoroughly investigating and demanding scientific proof since MY NAME GOES ON IT.
No argument there, ....but then again, no one said your name DIDN'T go on it either....

quote:
I must state that I am one of only a select few who can claim that,when Brunswick has a bad ball you never hear the persons name who designed it associated with the lemon.
Understood, but really, don't all of you guys know who designs balls for others ?!? huh?

quote:
So I profess that we will build only product based on science. Who else can claim that?

Uhmmmmm.....last time I checked....both symmetrical and asymmetrical bowling balls have some scientific (physics) factors to them....all of them do. Not just yours Superman This "science" and bowling thing has been going on for some time now hasn't it?

Doesn't even deserve a response. Personal attacks are usually a sign of insecurity. By the way no one twist your arm to read any of my comments.I'm the guy trying to enlighten the Dyno faithful and to help avoid scammers. As far as I'm concerned I'm done responding on this thread.

--------------------
JEFF
"...nowhere is the dreamer, or the misfit so alone...."

TheDude · « **Reply #35 on:** March 08, 2006, 12:23:05 AM »

I have to ask. If phil knew previously that older (before balls had spin times of 8 seconds or more, and mass bias differentials of under 0.010)asymmetrical balls were not seriously affecting ball reaction as compared to standard symmetricals and he knew that only a core with seriously strong and defined asymmetrical properties would make a signifigant difference, how come he didn't release it first?

It wouldn't be called marketing or trying to put the latest gimmick. It would be called innovation, and technologically advancing throughout the industry.

Being a smaller company that it is, sitting on the next big thing could be worth alot.

Even in the words of Mo Pinel himself" Visionary cores are quite strong" (him speaking about a Charcoal executioner that I had one time meeting him)

Phil this is not a personal attack but more a general question.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.

newguy · « **Reply #36 on:** March 08, 2006, 09:00:42 AM »

I did launch one of the first if not the first strong Asym ball. The EMB and realized during the testing procedure that any mid diff over .010 had very little or no effect on performance. The difference was barely detectable on CATS and certainly not visable to the human eye.
My point to all of this is do you buy a car that has a speedometer that says the car can go up 180 mph. Do you pay an additional $5000 for the feature that tells you how fast you can go eventually and than only drive the car in your neighborhood. The extra power is not needed so why have it added.
There is no proof be it CATS or otherwise that supports more strikeing or greater angle of entry (which usually yeilds more strikes)by having a stronger mid differential. If proof were availabel than everyone would eb using it in their marketing. No one has proven it, read all the media placements. Also if some did so scientific proof I certainly would have to eat crow.Brunswick as already proven that a diff above I believe .040 has very little influence on perfromace. I'm sure they are working on Mid diff effect.

Increasing the mid differential above .010 slightly may have a result, but doubling it or increasing it by an even greater amount is simply hype.
Another example is the overall diff number. It was once .080 as the upper limit. I developed the first ball that challanged that number, the diff was.078. It was mainly hype. Now that since USBC has reduced it to .060 that scoring did not come down due to the change from .080 to .060. As a matter of fact if they lowered it to .050 we would barely see a change in scoring if at all.
Physics and geometry are still the answer. Hype may sell balls but I assure you that is not what we are all about and will in the long run ruin the game. People will not coninue to shell out hundreds of dollars a year for equipment that simply does tha same old thing.
That is the reason we do not launch product until we are sure it does what we claim and fits into an arsenal.
It may take us a bit longer to get new product to market but when we do launch it we are comfortable with the performance and need less hype to sell it. That is when performance speaks for itself.
By the way who is that guy Mo Pinel you mentioned?

mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #37 on:** March 08, 2006, 10:33:16 AM »

Jeffrevs is too the dynothane forum what jabroni is too the lane 1 forums, jeff i like you but you are the biggest basher of Phil in the world. Phil products are overall great i seemed like i was on the Phil bashing wagon but i was just trying too find out why one ball was not working for me. I stuck with his products and You are missing out on the best assymetrical ball made my friend the Centrifugal Mass. I would put this ball against any Morich ball i own on any day, i think Mo is too stuck on Mass Bais balls only. His products are not driller friendly unless you kotm or someone that good punching them. I can tell you the Cm drilling instructions are easy to use even for a dummy like me, i went over them with my friend/driller and the ball does exactly what Phil says it will. So guess what i bought a second ball punched it stronger and guess what it hooks more than the first ball just like the CM instructions say it will.

Jeff take a chill pill and be nice to phil dont be a hater, it will be ok i promise

TheDude · « **Reply #38 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:50:01 AM »

Thank you phil for responding to the question posted.
--------------------
Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #39 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:23:01 PM »

Phil .... You're a smart guy, you've been well known AND respected in the industry for years! I'm not making personal attacks, I just find it funny that you bash or slam others when you post here. You've called asymm stuff "smoke and mirrors" constantly, but now you are making them. I just find it a little humorous. And, to be quite honest....I just wish you would let go of whatever causes you to slam other companies on this site. No one else does but you. I just wish you'd let your equipment do the talking. I for one know that your stuff CAN ....it just doesn't need the little jabs you take here and there. You're above that I would think.

quote:
Jeffrevs is too the dynothane forum what jabroni is too the lane 1 forums, jeff i like you but you are the biggest basher of Phil in the world.

Please!!!! I have ONE gripe with Phil (see above!). He's the only high level ball company rep/owner, etc that takes shots at other companies, and I just don't get it. That's my only issue.

quote:
Phil products are overall great

I never said his products where ANYTHING! As a matter of fact, I'm very interested with the things he comes up with! VERY! I always pay attention to what he's doing. I had an Element and loved it. I've never bashed D/T products....EVER!! If he'd stop taking shots at people, I just may buy a few,....and I mean that. That's what is stopping me from trying more of his stuff! Truthfully!

quote:
I would put this ball against any Morich ball i own on any day,

2 things....1) it's all about matchups "my friend".... 2) I'm not saying Morich is better than Dynothane, so relax

quote:
i think Mo is too stuck on Mass Bais balls only.

that's his "bag baby" yeah ! (insert best Austin Powers impression here!

)

quote:
His products are not driller friendly unless you kotm or someone that good punching them.

For optimum performance...as in ANY ball, asymm or symm, you need to know what you're doing. However, if you do it wrong, a strong asymm can be a really bad experience.

quote:
I can tell you the Cm drilling instructions are easy to use even for a dummy like me, i went over them with my friend/driller and the ball does exactly what Phil says it will. So guess what i bought a second ball punched it stronger and guess what it hooks more than the first ball just like the CM instructions say it will.

Now that is very intriguing to me and why I always keep my eye on D/T....I know Phil knows what he's doing...D/T has always had me interested. I have no issues at ALL with his products....I think they're all great! No question there....and if you look around..you'll see I've never bashed the product.

quote:
Jeff take a chill pill and be nice to phil dont be a hater, it will be ok i promise

I'll be nice to Phil (actually I am nice,....I like to jab him here and there though....he seems easy to irritate

) but I'll leave Phil alone when he just lets his product do the talking. There's just no reason to bash others......just promote the product and let it's own performance take care of the rest. It's that simple.

Whew......ok, I'm done, I hope I've clarified....once again.

D/T products ....GOOD
Phil ..... GOOD (let products do the talking though

)

NOW....back to the topic, or at least the prior question....

Is there a way to do a study to see where the optimum performance would be on a mid-diff? Has it been attempted?
--------------------
JEFF
"...nowhere is the dreamer, or the misfit so alone...."

newguy · « **Reply #40 on:** March 09, 2006, 09:34:14 AM »

OK my turn,
Jeff stop coming on the thread just to break b*lls. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, I voice mine and I have every right to. As a matter of fact the questions were directed to me and I answer them how I see fit. You have every right to disagree but do not have any right to tell me how I should answer questions presented to me. If you view my opinions as bashing then so be it. Get over it. I take time out of a busy day to answer questions to help educate. If in my opinion I see something as smoke and mirrors then I will tell it like I see it. If people disagree then I suggest they have facts to back up their position, I certainly do.
I'm considered one of the experts in the industry and because of that certain perks come with that territory. I've done years and years of research, 20 years to be exact not counting schooling. If your sole purpose is to irratate someone when than I guess you should consider yourself an expert and if I were to have questions on that topic I'd ask you.
People ask me for help I give it willingly. If this thread is any indication of the way it's going to be than I'll spend my time helping others somewhere else.
Now to your question. Studies have been done. If you noticed the companies that use the higher mid diffs are smaller compaines or sub brands, one of which I started back in 1987. The parent brand in each case does not use the higher mid diffs. Ever wonder why? If they are so great and make the ball do magic tricks than why doesn't Columbia or Brunswick have a ball with a .020 or higher mid diff. They certainly would sell a whole lot more balls than say Track or Morich if they had the secret ingredient to better scores. They are the ones who do the studies and in many cases realize that it is hype (smoke and mirrors) marketing but there are people out there that buy in to this ploy and purchase the next latest and greatest. The parent company can not come out and say it is all hype because it would impact production of balls for the the sub brand. Thus they keep their respective mouths shut.They speak volumes by not lauching the same technology.
I have asked many of them to define mass bais (clinically) none have come forth, as a matter of fact many have begun to avoid using the term since there is not such term. I have also asked them to prove the impact of mid diff on scoring and again none have come forward. The USBC is now asking them to support many of these claims and they the USBC is now testing to prove out many of the marketing claims. As a matter of fact they threw many of the claims right in the faces of the hypers and said based on those claims they were going to ban weight holes etc. Suddenly many stood up at the meeting and said "well much of it is marketing" Now they are at risk of having some of the true technology impacted because of their false claims.
I have a study I beleive may still be posted on the D/T website that shows a ball (3 piece) rolled off a ramp at 16mph at 4 degrees angle of entry hitting the 18.5 board at the pins and striking 99% of the time. No extra holes no mid diff. At 6 degrees the strike area expands to 3 or 4 boards with the same results. Thus the 19th board to the 16.5 board all yeilded strikes. That's a scientific study. So it angle of entry that increases strikes. If the balls with the higher mid diffs can show how they increase angle of entry well than we've got something, but guess what, they do not impact it any more than a ball with lesser mid diffs.
My goal is to make sure the D/T supporters are not duped by this. If you ask an honest question with honest intent I'll be happy to answer it honestly.

Spell check is not working sorry.

bamaster · « **Reply #41 on:** March 09, 2006, 09:44:44 AM »

I can't wait for the new ball to come out next month.

THE HUNGER
Featuring an inverted honeycomb weightblock with pancake flipblocks. Coverstock has Paprika Particle for extra bite.

I like pie.
--------------------
Tony
My Bowling Classifieds
My Bowling Journal | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs

tekneek · « **Reply #42 on:** March 09, 2006, 10:03:10 AM »

I'm getting a neck ache ducking and dodging the projectiles being launched in this post. Think I'll go on R/R for awhile maybe the fireworks will be over when I return.
--------------------
Steve
Stars N Strikes Pro Shop
www.dynothane.com

Capt Ramius "Vacilli, give me one ping, and one ping only"

wulfpackbwlr · « **Reply #43 on:** March 09, 2006, 10:28:30 AM »

bamaster, why you have to type like that about a weight block and coverstock? I'm hungry now, thanks a lot.

I appreciate all the info that newguy has given us when we have any questions at all about Dyno-Thane equipment. We seem to just have some poking at each other here that's perhaps getting a tad to serious. I'm very anxious to see what is coming out next, I dont have the money to buy it unfortunately, but still interested anyways.

Now, about this new ball....can we get a little more detailed info here? I mean maybe a color, type of cover, what to expect out of it. I dont mean give us everything, just a little glimps.

Nick
--------------------
NC State Fan
Average jumped 10 pins since the change to Dyno-Thane. Why not use it?

tekneek · « **Reply #44 on:** March 09, 2006, 10:48:25 AM »

which one, there are two coming out. One next week to staffers and another next month we hope.
--------------------
Steve
Stars N Strikes Pro Shop
www.dynothane.com

Capt Ramius "Vacilli, give me one ping, and one ping only"

wulfpackbwlr · « **Reply #45 on:** March 09, 2006, 12:07:54 PM »

Wow, 2 balls within a couple months. I'm quite impressed. Here I am trying to replace my arsenal too and there's 2 new ones coming out. Hey, I only throw Dyno-Thane, can we pretend I'm on staff? Hehe. Sounded good. Either one. Going by the purple comments here and there I'm thinking one is obviously purple. Where we looking at these 2 fitting into the current line ups?
--------------------
NC State Fan
Average jumped 10 pins since the change to Dyno-Thane. Why not use it?

Author Topic: INSIDER TRADING INFO (Read 9867 times)

tekneek

INSIDER TRADING INFO

newguy

Re: INSIDER TRADING INFO

Jeffrevs

Re: INSIDER TRADING INFO

newguy

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newguy

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TheDude

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newguy

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mrbowlingnut

Re: INSIDER TRADING INFO

TheDude

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Jeffrevs

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newguy

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bamaster

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tekneek

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wulfpackbwlr

Re: INSIDER TRADING INFO

tekneek

Re: INSIDER TRADING INFO

wulfpackbwlr

Re: INSIDER TRADING INFO