Post by: Next Level PS on February 27, 2003, 05:47:52 AM
Post by: Strider on February 28, 2003, 08:11:41 AM
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Strider
Penn State Proud
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say
Post by: seadrive on February 28, 2003, 08:55:33 AM
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl.
Edited on 2/28/2003 10:26 AM
Post by: Strider on February 28, 2003, 09:12:31 AM
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Strider
Penn State Proud
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say
Post by: Next Level PS on February 28, 2003, 09:26:51 AM
Thanks
V2 thans means Vendetta 2
Post by: charlest on February 28, 2003, 09:35:15 AM
quote:
For what it's worth, I believe that Mo said that the balls were spun at 415 rpm. Supposedly the "average" bowlers rev rate.
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Strider
No. I am pretty sure he said the average "good" bowler's rev rate, not the average bowler. I'm sure he implied the average PBA bowler.
Post by: charlest on February 28, 2003, 09:41:31 AM
It is basically a way to measure the "flippibility" of a ball. Polished and pearls have, by their inherent nature, a high degree of skid/flip-i-ness (pardon the made-up word); dull balls have less flip, mostly because they grab the lanes so early.
However, in Mo's article and method he stabilizes some factors in order to reduce variables involved: namingthe surface of th eball, which he sets to 1500 grit snaded, and the rev rate of the machine, 415, to what he consideres th erev rat eof a *GOOD* bowler, and the surface of the device that contacts and actually spins the ball - a hard urethane wheel.
Keep in mind that, as Phil, indicates, this is just one factor involved in determining the utility of a ball for a bowler.
Post by: omegabowler on February 28, 2003, 10:53:05 AM
even by using his x and y reference line the ball is is divided into 4 quadrants(pieces) the imbalance between these pieces are what really matter.
I believe the importance is in having the y axis as your track(tilt) and x as the initail PAP. the real reaction comes in the migration of the imbalance to balance points. like having a 4x4 tall core stand up as it enter the pocket.
or a 1x1 just laying down the hole way.
Edited on 2/28/2003 2:52 PM
Post by: T-GOD on March 07, 2003, 08:21:42 PM
Symmetrical core balls are much easier to read and control. Thus, giving you higher and more consistant scoring. =:^D
Post by: Next Level PS on September 08, 2003, 10:01:56 PM
i.e Bill Taylor VS Mo Pinel.
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www.bowlritelanes.com
Post by: Next Level PS on September 08, 2003, 10:15:28 PM
quote:
King, no disrespect, but friction slows down the rev rate.
Symmetrical core balls are much easier to read and control. Thus, giving you higher and more consistant scoring. =:^D
Hmmm
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www.bowlritelanes.com
Post by: seadrive on September 09, 2003, 10:38:22 AM
quote:
TTT, had to bring this back because the great debate may start tonight.
i.e Bill Taylor VS Mo Pinel.
To what would you be referring? What debate? Where?
Hey vortex, I like your hours: Monday-Friday and Saturday-Sunday. Don't you ever sleep?
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: Next Level PS on September 09, 2003, 11:08:30 AM
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www.bowlritelanes.com
Post by: charlest on September 09, 2003, 04:00:47 PM
quote:
We do not see any credibility or correlation between the spin times and improved scoring. Thus we do not spin any of our products. Those that do and attempt to make any assumptions about one product vs another are simply comparing apples to oranges. Some people are hanging their hats on that aspect or "gimmick" as a sound method of measuring ball strength or performance, that is a grave mistake.
Mo offered some long technical explanations in a few issues of Bowlign THis Month about PSA determinations and several of the factors involved in spinning the ball to get times. There seem to be too many factors involved, even though he did fix many of them, which helped define the issue somewhat. It does seem to have too many variables, even afte rexchanging a couple of emails with Fred Carrol, Morich's Director of Technical Services, I remained confused, and that doesn't happen often.
FWIW I understand how 3"+ of pin distance can emulate strong Mass Bias. The idea of a strong Mass Bias fixing the PSA in one gneral area is *intersting*, but I am unsure of its utility; Mr. Pinel indicates this makes the ball more versatile.
OK, you want a rant, you got a rant:
Even with all the oil we *CAN* have these days, for the most part, we get far more dry than we get oil. This era of super strong hooking balls with humongous backends favor the people who either never learned to bowl or who want to NOT have to hurt (!) their hand by actually applying 3 or 4 (!) whole revolutions to a ball. And, NO, I am not a cranker. Whether this is good or bad is irrelevant. I wish there were less talk of power available from balls and more talk of bowling.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: charlest on September 09, 2003, 04:02:25 PM
quote:
Just reading this month issue of BTM, Mo Pinels article on PSA. New Guy what is spin time to reach PSA on some of your products i.e the Element, Thing and Vendetta. I know it might be slower because of it being sysmetrical cores?
FYI Bowlers' Journal started publishing them as part of their reviews. As far as I have seen, symmetric balls talk longer to stabilize than MB balls or they never stabilize, if that has any import at all.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: Next Level PS on September 09, 2003, 04:33:09 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't forget surface has to fit to condition at hand.
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www.bowlritelanes.com
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on September 09, 2003, 04:42:08 PM
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"I drink to forget. Forget what? I dunno, I forgot that a long time ago."
Post by: charlest on September 10, 2003, 01:58:44 PM
quote:
Charlest, I beleive that having a ball rev up quicker at the break can help reduce TAPS (10 PINS) inaddition quicker reving core are know to be more angular this can be essential players for lesser rev rate at release.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't forget surface has to fit to condition at hand.
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www.bowlritelanes.com
Buuut, that also makes them flare quicker, therefore hook earlier; therefore they can roll out earlier and quicker and thus hit the pocket flat. The operative word is "can", i.e. they have the potential. It's all a huge balancing or juggling act, depending on how you want to look at it.
Ahhhh, SURFACE!
I knew that "ugly" word would enter into the act; of course it had to. Can't separate the core from the cover, in all practicality. So if Mass Bias balls satbilize quicker, because they are flaring so early, then I think it follows that you need less surface on such balls (relative to the bowler's revs, speed and the amount of oil, + 40 other factors), so that they will conserve their energy and not roll out too early.
Too much technology and not enough actual bowling ....
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: Next Level PS on September 10, 2003, 02:06:20 PM
quote:quote:
Charlest, I beleive that having a ball rev up quicker at the break can help reduce TAPS (10 PINS) inaddition quicker reving core are know to be more angular this can be essential players for lesser rev rate at release.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't forget surface has to fit to condition at hand.
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www.bowlritelanes.com
Too much technology and not enough actual bowling ....
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
thats what makes it so enjoyable, the tech stuff of the game forget about bowling.
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www.bowlritelanes.com
Post by: NY Mike on September 10, 2003, 03:57:22 PM
Post by: Typhoon on September 11, 2003, 07:19:47 AM
At 415rpm is a typical house bowlers rev rate at the break point. An asymetrical core will rev up as it travels down the lane. A good example is the Track bowling website. If you download the phenom video you can actually see the ball rev at the breakpoint.