Author Topic: All done with Ebo (Read 15803 times)

Greg T · « **on:** October 03, 2007, 03:28:46 PM »

I have been with Ebo for many years and have just made the decision to drop them completely. Although they fit my game to a T I am sick and tired of buying thr to four of the same balls every year. 6 weeks is the max I can get. I now own two perfectly great looking TNVs that turned into twig or spare balls. Cant get them to hook more than 5 boards. Every Ebo I have had in the last 10 years has been the same and I just cannot justify spending this much money anymore.

The reaction is fanatstic and the carry is excellent for the first 15 to 20 games. Then it's all over. I just pulled mine out tonight after a thorough soaking, cleaning, resurfacing using all the recommended techniques. Even used the powerhouse factory finish. End result.....targeting the 5 board all night and just barely carrying the rack. Anything closely resembling moving inside, even attempting a track shot would result in missing the headpin on the right.

Don't bother giving me the lectures on the cleaning and upkeep cuz nobody takes better care of their equipment than I do. Period. Ebo is done, Hammer will be my next test.

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If yer arm don't hurt ya ain't shiftin it right!

www.krusinklassics.net

ChrispyBrownies · « **Reply #46 on:** October 11, 2007, 10:59:34 AM »

My NVS is the same way...It was over aggressive the first 30-40 games, and after that, I have to lay it down in the dry for any reaction to the pocket. It is now my dry lane ball. Im not complaining about a drylane ball, but I was kind of expecting a little more out of my first ebo ball in like 6 years...

Chrispy
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Ten Pin Lanes Pro Shop
St. Matthews, KY
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Trinity High School "A" Bowling Team
Louisville, KY
State champs- 2002 and 2003

Since I only throw Infernos, just call me the Flamethrower.

PICS OF CURRENT ARSENAL IN PROFILE

Pimpin ain't easy-it's mandatory.

shelley · « **Reply #47 on:** October 11, 2007, 11:02:56 AM »

quote:
why dont all of you people that are complaining about coverstocks get a ball that has a strong core to it. simple. problem solved.

The NV line and the One line have some of the strongest cores in the business. Strong asymmetrics, plenty of dynamics. What am I missing about "strong cores"?

SH

MrNattyBoh · « **Reply #48 on:** October 11, 2007, 11:06:20 AM »

SIMPLY STATING, GET A BALL THAT YOU RELY ON THE CORE INSTEAD OF THE COVERSTOCK. THE CORE WILL NEVER DIE. I HAVE A USED INSITE ALMIGHTY AND IT HAS ABOUT 9 PLUG JOBS ON IT. IT IS THE STRONGEST BALL I HAVE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE CORE IT SELF AND THE WAY IT IS DRILLED.
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Mr. 298
Great Scores with InSite!
Natty Boh Bowling!

shelley · « **Reply #49 on:** October 11, 2007, 11:08:57 AM »

quote:
SIMPLY STATING, GET A BALL THAT YOU RELY ON THE CORE INSTEAD OF THE COVERSTOCK. THE CORE WILL NEVER DIE. I HAVE A USED INSITE ALMIGHTY AND IT HAS ABOUT 9 PLUG JOBS ON IT. IT IS THE STRONGEST BALL I HAVE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE CORE IT SELF AND THE WAY IT IS DRILLED.

Then Insite's balls are truly unique in the bowling industry. I was always told that the core is 20-40% of the ball's reaction while the cover and surface is up to 75% of it.

Also, typing in all CAPS is kind of obnoxious. I'm sure that's not what you were going for. I can read your post just fine with normal capitalization. My eyes aren't what they used to be, but they're good enough for that.

SH

MrNattyBoh · « **Reply #50 on:** October 11, 2007, 11:15:33 AM »

sorry about the caps lock, but i always have that on for work. that is irrevelant to what we are discussing. How can a cover be 75% of how a ball moves. it is all about physics. when you have a weight block that shifts as it is going down the lane, the movement of the ball is going to shift with it. it is like some of these people on here saying that they have a reactive ball that goes straight down the lane like a plastic ball. impossible because of the dynamics of the core. the only way a reactive ball will not turn the core is if it is thrown 100mph and no revs.
--------------------
Mr. 298
Great Scores with InSite!
Natty Boh Bowling!

mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #51 on:** October 11, 2007, 11:30:32 AM »

The post is about ball death from Ebonite products not core strength which the one series and nv series are far stronger than your insite ball anyday of the week.

If the core are what propels the ball tell me why my plastic buzzsaw with a real core hooks 5 boards and why any reactive ball i own hooks at 10 boards???

Insite almighty is a brunswick cover so they are not known for ball death like Ebonite and older Columbia products.

quote:
sorry about the caps lock, but i always have that on for work. that is irrevelant to what we are discussing. How can a cover be 75% of how a ball moves. it is all about physics. when you have a weight block that shifts as it is going down the lane, the movement of the ball is going to shift with it. it is like some of these people on here saying that they have a reactive ball that goes straight down the lane like a plastic ball. impossible because of the dynamics of the core. the only way a reactive ball will not turn the core is if it is thrown 100mph and no revs.
--------------------
Mr. 298
Great Scores with InSite!
Natty Boh Bowling!

shelley · « **Reply #52 on:** October 11, 2007, 11:38:48 AM »

quote:
How can a cover be 75% of how a ball moves. it is all about physics. when you have a weight block that shifts as it is going down the lane, the movement of the ball is going to shift with it. it is like some of these people on here saying that they have a reactive ball that goes straight down the lane like a plastic ball. impossible because of the dynamics of the core. the only way a reactive ball will not turn the core is if it is thrown 100mph and no revs.

It can be 75% of the reaction because it's 100% of the part of the ball that actually touches the lane an interacts with the lane surface and oil.

A ball moves because there's friction. That's it. That's physics. The friction force is in one direction, the ball's motion is in another. The friction pulls the ball in the direction of the friction force. The friction is between the lane surface and the ball's coverstock and is controlled by the oil or lack thereof on the lane. The core helps to ensure that there is the maximum amount of friction available. How? Differential. A ball that's rolling on an existing oil ring doesn't have as much friction available to it as one that's rolling on fresh, clean material.

How can I tell that the cover is so much more important than the core? Take the core out of play. Pin axis layouts mean the core is stable and provides very little in the way of ball motion. But do that with a ball that's got a high friction surface and it will hook. Or use a ball with a very weak core like a Tornado Warning or Straight Flush, drilled however you like. No core dynamics to speak of but a reactive cover.

Drill an XXXL (the only moderately-available plastic ball with a core that I can think of) as strong as you like. Where does it go? Straight? Where's the friction? I'll give you a hint: There isn't any.

Simply speaking, if a ball is dead, it's not providing enough friction to impact the ball's motion. The core is not at fault. The core is the same core that was in there when it as brand new. No ball I know of allows you to change that. It hasn't changed shape, it hasn't become soft and spongy or lost its dynamics. The cover is at fault.

Very much smarter people than me have said (and scientifically determined) that the cover swamps all other factors in ball motion. Core shape, orientation, layout, mass bias, static weights, weight holes. At best, with a very strong asymmetric core, those things might be bumping up to 40% of the ball's reaction. The cover and surface prep are still 50% more important than the core and layout (60 is 50% more than 40).

SH

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #53 on:** October 11, 2007, 12:42:09 PM »

The core determines how the ball wants to rotate and drives this rotation. The cover provides the friction to allow direction change and uses the difference in friction between oil and dry to determine when and where and how much the ball can grab the lane and turn left.

The core is like the motor in your car and the coverstock is like your tires. It doesn't do you any good to have a Ferrari with a monster powerplant under the hood if you are trying to run on wet grass or ice with racing slicks, or to have four flat tires and try to run on the expressway at speed.

strikezone_sanantonio · « **Reply #54 on:** October 11, 2007, 12:50:09 PM »

Just curious on how you came to this conclusion? Note - see Dan Belcher's quote for 10/11/07.

quote:
sorry about the caps lock, but i always have that on for work. that is irrevelant to what we are discussing. How can a cover be 75% of how a ball moves. it is all about physics. when you have a weight block that shifts as it is going down the lane, the movement of the ball is going to shift with it. it is like some of these people on here saying that they have a reactive ball that goes straight down the lane like a plastic ball. impossible because of the dynamics of the core. the only way a reactive ball will not turn the core is if it is thrown 100mph and no revs.
--------------------
Mr. 298
Great Scores with InSite!
Natty Boh Bowling!

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Bo Littlefield
AMF300 and 900 Global Staff
The Strike Zone Pro Shop of San Antonio
-only pro shop in Texas with the largest selection and inventory
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www.qualitybowlingproducts.com

sheppy335 · « **Reply #55 on:** October 12, 2007, 06:37:50 AM »

I have owned many Ebonite balls and i have only one that died on me and it was my fault. I didnt understand cleaning it. Since then i havent had a ball die, only replaced one cause it cracked. I am sorry you had a bad time with them, and 25 games seems so fast!
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Oil is served Best with fingers!

Why does the 8 Pin laugh at me!

Sheppy

mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #56 on:** October 16, 2007, 11:30:51 PM »

Clean and dull is what killed it i used that stuff one time on a big one it lost 80 percnet of it's hooking power right then and there. Clean and dull does not work well on Ebonite porous covers with a spinner.

I have pmed Greg about this possibility and guess what he does use clean and dull, i was guessing but i was right. I could care less about the 2k people on here that swear by clean and dull but that crap is never going on my stuff again.

I think the ebonite ball death is caused by the pores being clogged by clean and dull and products like it.

River700 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 16, 2007, 11:50:47 PM »

Bowlingnut, I can so agree with you, I use reacta shine on all my polished balls, and my balls don't die out. The problem here that people are not realizing is that with ebonite and their super strong covers is that because of the covers being so strong and porous, they need to have that polish replaced and like clean n dull, it does not have any polish in it, leaving the coverstock without the needed polish on it and with the strong covers, once it starts breaking down, it will die, and not want to react the right way. It's like using super high perfomrance slicks for racing cars, ya sure they grip like there's no tomorro, but they wear out super fast too. Also those liquid cleaners are good for sanded surfaces, but with polished surfaces, if the polish is not replaced after each cleaning then the coverstock will die alot sooner.
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If your going to bowl...bowl for fun or go home

shelley · « **Reply #58 on:** October 17, 2007, 08:23:52 AM »

quote:
Clean and dull does not work well on Ebonite porous covers with a spinner.

I'm not disputing your results but it seems a bit strange that they'd add C&D to their Powerhouse brand of cleaners and finishing products. Certainly Ebonite would have done some research to determine if it's useable on their own equipment.

Or it's part of the "planned obsolescence" that seems characteristic of recent Ebonite equipment. You'll get 50 games out of the ball, then if you try to clean it with our super fantastical magical cleaner, you still kill the ball.

SH

86camaroman · « **Reply #59 on:** October 17, 2007, 08:29:53 AM »

Inverted send me the ball and I will pull all the oil out and resurface it to out of box condition you just pay shipping. Then you tell me if it is still dead. Honestly. I am just curious to see I have a total nv and have now probably almost 400 games on it. I pull the oil out every 50 or so games and bam its strong as new again. I think I could help you out on your ball. I will agree that this ball soaks up more oil then any other ball I have ever owned but This is my only ebonite ball besides my spare ball. I will definetely get some more ebo stuff after trying this ball. though.

JMORRIS · « **Reply #60 on:** October 17, 2007, 08:53:28 AM »

I haven't had any issue with clean and dull on my TNV with or without a spinner.

I think my corner pin carry issue, with my Toxic and Vibe has more to do with oil carry down and not reading the transition correctly, then it does with ball death.

Author Topic: All done with Ebo (Read 15803 times)

Greg T

All done with Ebo

ChrispyBrownies

Re: All done with Ebo

shelley

Re: All done with Ebo

MrNattyBoh

Re: All done with Ebo

shelley

Re: All done with Ebo

MrNattyBoh

Re: All done with Ebo

mrbowlingnut

Re: All done with Ebo

shelley

Re: All done with Ebo

Dan Belcher

Re: All done with Ebo

strikezone_sanantonio

Re: All done with Ebo

sheppy335

Re: All done with Ebo

mrbowlingnut

Re: All done with Ebo

River700

Re: All done with Ebo

shelley

Re: All done with Ebo

86camaroman

Re: All done with Ebo

JMORRIS

Re: All done with Ebo