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Author Topic: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far  (Read 4913 times)

allstarbowling-Joe

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Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« on: January 04, 2008, 12:04:50 AM »
Id like to take a second to chime in on this topic...

Seeing that I see both sides of it (online sales vs retail sales) I can
understand both viewpoints. A big advantage that alot of the larger
e-tailers on the net have is in puchasing in volume obviously. I feel
this advantage shouldnt be eliminated because investing that type of
captial should entitle you to buy in a better price. In our situation
by buying at a better price it allows us to operate our retail business
at a lower price to the consumer and yet retain our profit margin.

From the proshop point of view the four BIG problems that need to be addressed
and would flatten the field out somewhat for everyone is:

o A uniform Internet sales tax
This is a huge break that causes people to buy on the net. Why not try
and save a few bucks if you can. States are losing a TON of revenue due
to this.

o Basement-dwelling drillers and pro shops
This is my biggest pet peeve in the industry. Im sure everyone of
pro shop owners here have heard "Hey so and so has a press and is drilling
in his basement/gargage. We can save a few bucks!!". Not only does
this lose you a ball sale, it loses you a customer for drilling as well, as
well as accessories, etc, as this mentality extends to this.

o Ball and Bag Margin
This is one of the biggest blows to the proshop industry as a whole. For
even medium sized shops it makes no sense to have a stock of any of this as
because the sales have just shrunk to the point of not making economic sense
in placing that kind of capital into a item that doesnt move. Roller bags
and high end shoes are especially prone to this problem. It doesnt make
much sense to stock a pair of shoes that might cost the shop $115.00 and have
them be forced to sell them at 129-135 plus tax to have any chance of
catching these sales that the customer perceives as having "no value added"
compared to buying online.

o Society in general fostering the mentality of "Give it to me as cheap as
possible".
Sadly this isnt limited to the bowling industry. The rise of what I like
to call the Wal Mart mentality is making it next to impossible to make
a decent living for alot people anymore, including the small businessman
who takes the chance and lays money on the line to follow a dream of his.
There is nothing wrong with shopping smartly, but when it simply comes down
to the last cent and nothing more and not service and knowledge, what can
you say?

Many may ask why I would like to see the above situations addressed since
we sell online as well as having 5 retail shops? Simply because I believe
the online model of doing sales is flawed and broken and cannot continue to
survive on 5-8 points profit. Its easy to exist with that when it is only
a one person operation. Start adding overhead, warehousing, etc and soon
enough you see that economically in the long run it is not viable. Plus the
customer relationships that are developed on the retail side cannot be
understated. Being just a number and another screen for me personally is
a bit bland but yet it is indicative of how society has become.

----
Retail Wise, Approx 1 Week Into New Pricing Structure

Our experience so far is that across all Ebonite brands sales and interest
have been way off as the customer is seeing a higher price for these balls
(roughly 10 or 15 higher depending) and ask why there is a price difference.
Most seem to be gravitating more towards Brunswick and Storm at this point.
Unforunately with the way the economy is right now, at least in the Cleveland
area, price DOES come into play , even at 10 to 15 dollars.    The only real
Ebonite stuff that is moving at this point are Black Widows/Pearls/Bites.
----

Thanks,
Joe


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1MechEng

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2008, 08:44:41 AM »
Thanks for providing your insight and experience so far, Joe.
Is it safe to assume from the tone of your post that you prefer the brick and mortar side of your business to the internet side?
I'd be curious to know which of the two is more profitable (percentage-wise, not in total $$$ sales).
--------------------
======================
Dan
======================
Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.

Edited on 1/4/2008 9:44 AM
Dan

jls

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 09:02:20 AM »
all star joe,

you sir should not be in the pro shop business,  you sir should be running for President!!!!!!!!!!!

that was one terrific post sir.

i loved how you hit the nail on the head about how states are losing sales tax.
hello, is anyone home here.  right on with that one.

and the part about bags and shoes,  right on.

great post sir,

please consider running for the office of president.

our country needs people like you.
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

allstarbowling-Joe

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 10:00:38 AM »
Mech

The retail side is infintely more profitable, at least right now.   The
wholesale requires such an amount of volume to make a decent $ that at some
point you have to wonder if its really viable in the long run.   Id prefer
to soley do the brick & mortar side of it, but yet to ignore the real world
ideologies of buying online and not partake in that part of business would
be shortsighted and shutting off a source of revenue.   I know I have personally
experienced the difficulties these last two years of selling online as without
having a dedicated staff to online sales only due to the overhead/profit margin
invovled.   I dont take pride in some of the quality of sales over the last two
years and have done everything I can to make those problems right when they
arise.   As for the retail side, those types of problems never arise or very
rarely do they and when they do, its something that can be fixed on the spot,
unlike a sale that may be taking place 2000 miles from me.

JLS,
I dont think you want me to run for president LOL.   But thanks for
the nice comment.   Im just a common man who understands the true
realities of the bowling business (notice the word business and not sport)
and the problems that face the pro shop industry.

Thanks,
Joe
--------------------
Come visit us for all your bowling needs:
http://www.allstarbowling.com

The lowest prices and best service... ALL the time!!

Our E*Bay Auctions & Store For Your Viewing Pleasure:
http://stores.ebay.com/AllStarBowling

NOTE:

We are not responsible for typographical errors.  Errors
will be corrected.  Any error in price/description will not obligate
All Star Bowling to sell the item in error.


Edited on 1/4/2008 11:01 AM

1MechEng

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 10:11:39 AM »
Joe -
If you were to discontinue the internet side of the business, and not have the discounts available to the retail side because of the quantities that you're purchasing in right now as a whole, would you still be as profitable?
--------------------
======================
Dan
======================
Engineering * Bowling = a fun and practical application of rotational kinematics.
Dan

ejwissner

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2008, 10:22:09 AM »
AS Joe - Interesting points.  What do you tell customers that ask about the increased Ebonite prices?  It sounds like you're not like the typical BM shop in that you also have the online presence.  From what I'm reading, prices for "typical" proshops wouldn't increase, just those to higher volume (online) buyers.

My experience has been that word of mouth from the local proshop goes a long way in helping bowlers decide what ball to buy.  I imagine that the message a "typical" proshop would give about Ebonite's pricing policy would be different than the message given by one with an online presence (that had formerly realized a discount).

Please don't take any of this as an attack - I'm more interested in the situation and the discussion itself.  

BTW - I bought from you once and the service level was still great, "short-staffed" and all.

allstarbowling-Joe

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 05:03:04 PM »
EJ

It is increasing the typical price a average bowler would pay
from us because we are no longer allowed to pass along our
quantity pricing breaks at this point.   Realize that most
distributors would tier you in at certain price points depending
on your level of business per year.   Now with the Ebonite MSP
from distributors, it isnt going to matter what volume you by
at your paying the same price.   Horrible business strategy
that is going to backfire in the long run.   Remember 3-4 years
ago we coulnt GIVE away an Ebonite ball if our life depended
on it (think Primal Instinct/Deal/etc).  They have been on
such a good run that Im sure they feel the next DUD isnt going
to happen.  Unfortunately when it does come I feel the backlash
is going to be twice as bad.

Joe
--------------------
Come visit us for all your bowling needs:
http://www.allstarbowling.com

The lowest prices and best service... ALL the time!!

Our E*Bay Auctions & Store For Your Viewing Pleasure:
http://stores.ebay.com/AllStarBowling

NOTE:

We are not responsible for typographical errors.  Errors
will be corrected.  Any error in price/description will not obligate
All Star Bowling to sell the item in error.

lorevs

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 05:57:02 PM »
The next launch of a new product line will be interesting.  Without the deals, what's going to create the push?

BW

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2008, 06:00:33 PM »
quote:
The next launch of a new product line will be interesting.  Without the deals, what's going to create the push?


3 words: new black widow

BW

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2008, 06:13:16 PM »
Joe,

Distributors can still offer column pricing. One sent me a new price sheet today that still does. The new policy only requires that the lowest column be at the minimum or above.

And thanks for your thoughts on the subject. You're spot on regarding the lack of internet sales tax and the basement pro shops. Even though we disagree on the long term effects, I appreciate you being rational and respectful during the discussion.

elvismat

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2008, 01:05:57 PM »
Hey Allstar Joe,

Your so astute with your opinions!

Edited on 1/5/2008 6:27 PM

jls

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2008, 01:12:38 PM »
IMPORTANT NEWS FLASH.

the price on the Resurgence just went up $1.53.

i sure hope joe f.  does not see this,  cause you know,  it's the pro shops fault that this price >increased.  had nothing to do with oil prices!!!


--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Atochabsh

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2008, 08:53:07 PM »
My price as a pro shop owner, went up .50 a ball.  So this whole thing is a non issue for me.  I can only benefit if other retailers now have to buy at near to the same price I do.

Erin

Bowljr300

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2008, 07:34:03 PM »
From the proshop point of view the four BIG problems that need to be addressed
and would flatten the field out somewhat for everyone is:

o A uniform Internet sales tax
This is a huge break that causes people to buy on the net. Why not try
and save a few bucks if you can. States are losing a TON of revenue due
to this.

o Basement-dwelling drillers and pro shops
This is my biggest pet peeve in the industry. Im sure everyone of
pro shop owners here have heard "Hey so and so has a press and is drilling
in his basement/gargage. We can save a few bucks!!". Not only does
this lose you a ball sale, it loses you a customer for drilling as well, as
well as accessories, etc, as this mentality extends to this.

o Ball and Bag Margin
This is one of the biggest blows to the proshop industry as a whole. For
even medium sized shops it makes no sense to have a stock of any of this as
because the sales have just shrunk to the point of not making economic sense
in placing that kind of capital into a item that doesnt move. Roller bags
and high end shoes are especially prone to this problem. It doesnt make
much sense to stock a pair of shoes that might cost the shop $115.00 and have
them be forced to sell them at 129-135 plus tax to have any chance of
catching these sales that the customer perceives as having "no value added"
compared to buying online.

o Society in general fostering the mentality of "Give it to me as cheap as
possible".
Sadly this isnt limited to the bowling industry. The rise of what I like
to call the Wal Mart mentality is making it next to impossible to make
a decent living for alot people anymore, including the small businessman
who takes the chance and lays money on the line to follow a dream of his.
There is nothing wrong with shopping smartly, but when it simply comes down
to the last cent and nothing more and not service and knowledge, what can
you say?

1.  Adding a uniform sales tax is nothing more than an artificial method of supporting businesses that have not yet found a way to be competitive with the internet.  The growth of the internet has helped to fuel the U.S. and world economy and taxing it would be the first step towards destroying its success.  Societies have never taxed themselves into prosperity or fairness.

2. So called Basement dwellers exist in every industry.  We all know sideline plumbers, electricians, auto detailers, etc.  If this one very small segment of the industry is putting you out of business, then your business model is seriously flawed.

3. We agree on this point.  Shoe and bag sales can suffer.

4. Walmart mentality - Walmart has single handedly lowered the U.S. inflation rate by more than 1% because of its pricing.  It provides poor people with access to goods and services that they would ordinarily not be able to afford.
It employs over 1 million workers, who stay VOLUNTARILY.

5. "Mom and Pop" businesses are at risk when Walmart enters the market. However, they are also at risk from Target, Office Depot, Staples, Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, etc.  If Mom and Pop business can't compete on price, they must do so through value-added services.

6.  Price is only important in the absence of value!


BW

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Re: Ebonite Pricing - My Views/Experience So Far
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2008, 08:30:39 PM »
1. Adding a uniform sales tax is nothing more than an artificial method of supporting businesses that have not yet found a way to be competitive with the internet. The growth of the internet has helped to fuel the U.S. and world economy and taxing it would be the first step towards destroying its success. Societies have never taxed themselves into prosperity or fairness.

Huh? A uniform sales tax will simply allow states to collect money they are already owed. Technically, items purchased online are subject to stae sales tax, like any item you bought in person. But the state has no way to collect said funds. A uniform sales tax would require etailers to collect a flat tax on purchases, regardless of where the item is shipped. Then states would receive taxes they are currently being cheated out of.