Author Topic: Exact Mandate by Ebonite?!?! (Read 2861 times)

Djarum · « **on:** January 03, 2008, 07:23:38 AM »

Can someone tell me the exact mandate by ebonite? I realize in general they are increasing the prices to the distributers. Fine. But are they setting a price floor(minimum) that the distributers can sell product to online shops and B&M shops or are they setting the price period?

Now, if they are only setting the price floor, wouldn't it be prudent for the distributers to just use the price floor for quanity discounts to the online shops and another price for those buying a little at a time? I realize that one reason quanity discounts are given to online shops is that the distributer was getting a similar discount from ebonite. Still, even if ebonite doesn't give a quanity discount to the distributers anymore, it still is cheaper for the distributer to sell in quanity. Wouldn't their pricing scale(margins) based on quanity just re-adjust to the price floor? Basically, the B&M proshop would get a higher price than the online shops, and the online shops would get the price at the minimum set by ebonite.

Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

mrteach3 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2008, 06:48:00 PM »

Dj,

If I am not mistaken, they are stating that the price can't be changed at all and must be charged to all and any pro shop. It is their way of making costs a "level" playing field.
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Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!

Sjf · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2008, 09:28:20 PM »

ask mr Phil. he will fill you in. many companies in all types of industries do this. The Supreme Court ruling had nothing to do with the bowling industry.
it was another major industry, that the ruling was made for. it just applies to all industries.
golf has been doing this for years. i believe golf calls it mapping?

all it means is this, the company that makes a product, has the right to set a minimum price for thier product, that their direct customers sell it for.

in the golf industry, the golf companies deal directly with the retailers.
thus Titleist tells pro shops like Edwin Watts, Golfsmith, Golf Galaxie, Dick's, what the retail price will be. minimum retail price. they can all sell it for more if they choose. example, Titleist golf balls. the pro v1
must sell for $45.95. no lower, unless approved by Titleist. but anyone can sell them for more.

however, in the bowling industry, the ball companies for the most part deal directly with dist. they usually do not sell directly to pro shops.
thus they can not set a retail price for a ball at the pro shop level.
however, dist. are their customers, and under the Supreme court ruling of last summer, dist. can set a price, called floor pricing. now Ebonite has known about this ruling for over 6 months. i am sure their lawyers work out the details. and now Ebonite has put into effect floor pricing to their customers, the dist. not the pro shop nor the online dealers, just the dist.

if anyone needs this to be cleared up more. talk to Mr phil. he is a lawyer, i am not.
the Supreme Court ruling stated that "floor pricing can not be considered illegal, if it promotes competition".

i hope this helps.

oprahsdouche · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:29:58 AM »

A minimum selling price! This does not mandate anything. All the distributors have to do is sell the internet at the minimum price and then jack it up to the pro shop. The same way they have done it for years. OF course they wont do it just yet, but they will, distributors run (or should i say ruin) this industry. I want to know what happens when this program doesn't fix anything? Boys i think we have a nuclear war on our hands. Ebonite trying to set a bar, do you realize if Brunswick figures out how to build a ball they can turn a key and nuke everyone if they want? Thats simple economics and strategy.

Djarum · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:44:57 AM »

See, this is the problem. Is ebonite mandating the EXACT price or the MINIMUM price? From a business perspective, these are two different things. It seems like no one is really sure.

I have a problem with both, because at the retail level, loss leaders are an important part of the game, and if you can't have loss leaders, it can hurt you're business.

Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

mrteach3 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:45:13 AM »

O,

I understand your point, but I don't see it working that way. The distributors will not, nor should not, jack up their price for the little pro shop. I say this since there will always be the distributor that is not going to jack up the price to the little pro shop. Thus, that distributor will gain business, while the others will lose business if they indeed jack up their price. This is the reason that setting a minimum price will work in my opinion. Time will tell for sure.
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Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!

pnj1967 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2008, 08:33:33 AM »

The way I understand this is, the Distributor has to sell to the BM (Brick & Mortar) Proshops the same price as the internet sellers.

Even if the Internet sellers order 1,000 balls and the Proshop orders 3 balls the price has to be the same, for each one.

Example;

Distributor orders 10,000 NVS's from Ebonite
their cost $69.00 each

Internet seller orders 1,000 from Distributor
thier cost $89.00 each

BM Pro Shop orders 3 and their cost is $89.00 each

quote:
I'm not understanding what all the big deal is about. All this pricing does is make sure the distributor is not selling the internet at only 2-3points over and shops at 12-15points over. it is just a minimum selling point. Yes there may be distributors that will still sell to shops at a price higher than the internet, but with a little leg work it will be easy to spot them. All you have to do is check prices with numourous distributors and buy from the one that gives the shops the best price. It will not effect the retail end in any big way.

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Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.

Users and Companies, I wont deal with, read my profile.

Edited on 1/4/2008 9:43 AM

Edited on 1/4/2008 9:44 AM

oprahsdouche · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2008, 08:49:37 AM »

quote:
The way I understand this is, the Distributor has to sell to the BM (Brick & Mortar) Proshops the same price as the internet sellers.

Even if the Internet sellers order 1,000 balls and the Proshop orders 3 balls the price has to be the same, for each one.

Example;

Distributor orders 10,000 NVS's from Ebonite
their cost $69.00 each

Internet seller orders 1,000 from Distributor
thier cost $89.00 each

BM Pro Shop orders 3 and their cost is $89.00 each

quote:
I'm not understanding what all the big deal is about. All this pricing does is make sure the distributor is not selling the internet at only 2-3points over and shops at 12-15points over. it is just a minimum selling point. Yes there may be distributors that will still sell to shops at a price higher than the internet, but with a little leg work it will be easy to spot them. All you have to do is check prices with numourous distributors and buy from the one that gives the shops the best price. It will not effect the retail end in any big way.

--------------------
Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.

Users and Companies, I wont deal with, read my profile.

NO. Its a floor price. They cannot sell under that floor price to anyone, it doesnt tell them they have to sell to a pro shop for x amount and the internet for x amount. They can still have 2 different price points they just cant be under a certain number.

Edited on 1/4/2008 9:43 AM

Edited on 1/4/2008 9:44 AM

jls · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2008, 08:55:34 AM »

quote:
The way I understand this is, the Distributor has to sell to the BM (Brick & Mortar) Proshops the same price as the internet sellers.

Even if the Internet sellers order 1,000 balls and the Proshop orders 3 balls the price has to be the same, for each one.

Example;

Distributor orders 10,000 NVS's from Ebonite
their cost $69.00 each

Internet seller orders 1,00 from Distributor
thier cost $89.00 each

BM Pro Shop orders 3 and their cost is $89.00 each

quote:
I'm not understanding what all the big deal is about. All this pricing does is make sure the distributor is not selling the internet at only 2-3points over and shops at 12-15points over. it is just a minimum selling point. Yes there may be distributors that will still sell to shops at a price higher than the internet, but with a little leg work it will be easy to spot them. All you have to do is check prices with numourous distributors and buy from the one that gives the shops the best price. It will not effect the retail end in any big way.

--------------------
Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.

Users and Companies, I wont deal with, read my profi

Edited on 1/4/2008 9:43 AM

SIR, i respectfully disagree. if Ebonite is doing what other industries have been doing, such as the golf industry, then they are setting a minimum price that their product can be sold for by any of their customers. in this case, the dist. can sell the product for more, but not less.

example, Titlest pro v1, must sell for at least $45.95 a dozen, however any dealer is free to sell them for more. that's why you may see your local country club selling them at $54.95, yet Golf Galaxy, or Dicks will be at $45.95.
and that sir is what i believe Ebonite's policy is. A black widow pearl must sell at, lets say, $124,99 to all their customers. that is the minimun price. but if a dist. wants to sell it for more, then he can, he simply can not sell it for less then the "floor price".

therefore as several just pointed out, certain dist. can sell the ball at the floor price to an online dealer, and sell it for $5 or $10 more to a pro shop.
and in that case, if the pro shops, shops around, they will find other dist. that will indeed sell them at the floor price. and then when that happens, those dist. trying to sell for more then the floor price, will lose some pro shops as customers.
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jls, proud watcher of womens golf

laufaye · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2008, 09:56:01 AM »

quote:
So going off what you are saying, the higher volume shops, not etailers, lose there advantage for doing business at a higher level, as well as losing there buying power. This, I am sorry to say, will not set well with these shops. I know, as I have not only talked to numerous distributors, as well as high volume shops and they are not happy about it. The years they have put in building there business is going to be lost, due to an increase in there price. This will be debated on here and turn into a he said, it said, with no true fact based info to back anything that is purported. Time will tell.

And no it is not similar to golf. Golf has MAP, minimum advertised pricing. They do not have a pricing floor. The higher volume dealers, Dick's, Golf Galaxy, etc, have different BUYING levels for volumes. The smaller golf pro shops are paying more for their product than the larger retailers. They just make less margin. And etailers in golf, as well as Dick's and the rest, can sell for a lower price. They just cannot advertise it. And of course golf does not have distributors.
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Ric Hamlin
Pacific Northwest Product Specialist
Brunswick Bowling

'That Ric guy'

I see your point, the whole idea seems to me is to level the playing field or close the gap of the cost betwen etailers and b/m shops, and seems at the same time take away some advantages from the bigger/chain shops.

Hope manufacturer/distributor will find a way to compensate that part of the pro shops industry. Maybe limited 4 for 1? just a thought.

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Laufaye

sdbowler · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2008, 10:40:42 AM »

Laufaye said it best with "close the gap". I still think there might be a price difference but I don't think it will be as much, hard to tell though. Remember it is a minimum selling price not a set selling price.
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Brunswick
Kyle

jls · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2008, 10:57:10 AM »

And no it is not similar to golf. Golf has MAP, minimum advertised pricing. They do not have a pricing floor. The higher volume dealers, Dick's, Golf Galaxy, etc, have different BUYING levels for volumes. The smaller golf pro shops are paying more for their product than the larger retailers. They just make less margin. And etailers in golf, as well as Dick's and the rest, can sell for a lower price. They just cannot advertise it. And of course golf does not have distributors.
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Ric Hamlin
Pacific Northwest Product Specialist
Brunswick Bowling

'That Ric guy'[/quote]

Ric, this is true, golf still has different levels at the wholesale price points. example. Titleist golf balls may cost Golf Galaxy $30 a dz. and they may cost a small independent shop $36 a dz. but golf galaxy or Dicks can not sell it below a certain price point, and that right now is $45.95.
therefore the small pro shop can still make a profit on the balls selling them for the same price as Golf Galaxy or Dicks. it's just that Dick's and Golf Galaxy will make more profit since they were able to buy at a better price.
the point here is not so much what they paid, but what the ball sells for.
in golf as you can see by the example, both will make>>> keyword here, a profit. of course Golf Galaxie and Dicks will make a larger profit, but the little guy will still make a profit.
unlike in bowling, where many times a pro shop pays the same or more then when a consumer buys it online. like with your Fury!!!!

no consumer on this planet can go online and buy brand new Titleist for less then what any pro shop can sell them for, MAP price of $45.95.

your good friend came on and posted that "his dist. guy cut him a deal and sold him Fury's at $99." Ric, any one in this country can go online and buy them for that price. that is the difference between what golf does and what bowling does. anyone can go online right now to tgw, or Dick's or Golf Galaxie and order adz. Titleist, and they will pay. $45.95. unless Titleist is running a promotion, as they where a week or so before Christmas. when Titleist where selling for $39.99. but no one can go online as a consumer and buy them for $36 or $30 a dz!!!!!

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jls, proud watcher of womens golf

Djarum · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2008, 11:08:05 AM »

quote:
quote:
The way I understand this is, the Distributor has to sell to the BM (Brick & Mortar) Proshops the same price as the internet sellers.

Even if the Internet sellers order 1,000 balls and the Proshop orders 3 balls the price has to be the same, for each one.

Example;

Distributor orders 10,000 NVS's from Ebonite
their cost $69.00 each

Internet seller orders 1,00 from Distributor
thier cost $89.00 each

BM Pro Shop orders 3 and their cost is $89.00 each

quote:
I'm not understanding what all the big deal is about. All this pricing does is make sure the distributor is not selling the internet at only 2-3points over and shops at 12-15points over. it is just a minimum selling point. Yes there may be distributors that will still sell to shops at a price higher than the internet, but with a little leg work it will be easy to spot them. All you have to do is check prices with numourous distributors and buy from the one that gives the shops the best price. It will not effect the retail end in any big way.

--------------------
Enjoy the people on the ballreview.com forum. Like to help when I can.

Users and Companies, I wont deal with, read my profi

Edited on 1/4/2008 9:43 AM

SIR, i respectfully disagree. if Ebonite is doing what other industries have been doing, such as the golf industry, then they are setting a minimum price that their product can be sold for by any of their customers. in this case, the dist. can sell the product for more, but not less.

example, Titlest pro v1, must sell for at least $45.95 a dozen, however any dealer is free to sell them for more. that's why you may see your local country club selling them at $54.95, yet Golf Galaxy, or Dicks will be at $45.95.
and that sir is what i believe Ebonite's policy is. A black widow pearl must sell at, lets say, $124,99 to all their customers. that is the minimun price. but if a dist. wants to sell it for more, then he can, he simply can not sell it for less then the "floor price".

therefore as several just pointed out, certain dist. can sell the ball at the floor price to an online dealer, and sell it for $5 or $10 more to a pro shop.
and in that case, if the pro shops, shops around, they will find other dist. that will indeed sell them at the floor price. and then when that happens, those dist. trying to sell for more then the floor price, will lose some pro shops as customers.
--------------------
jls, proud watcher of womens golf

If this is the case, all distributers should re-align their current prices and margins. If they all do that, even if the shops shop around for a distributer, there won't be much price difference between dist. a and dist. b. If the pro-shops get a higher price than the online guys, how does this help b and m shops? It doesn't, but it sure does put more money into ebonites pocket.

Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

Author Topic: Exact Mandate by Ebonite?!?! (Read 2861 times)

Djarum

Exact Mandate by Ebonite?!?!

mrteach3

Re: Exact Mandate by Ebonite?!?!

Sjf

Re: Exact Mandate by Ebonite?!?!

oprahsdouche

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Djarum

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mrteach3

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pnj1967

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oprahsdouche

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jls

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laufaye

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sdbowler

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jls

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Djarum

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