Author Topic: Spin Time on The One? (Read 6854 times)

scotts33 · « **on:** March 05, 2006, 02:27:21 AM »

So does anybody know? Brick asked this question but not sure anybody really knows.

http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=113579&ForumID=5&CategoryID=2
--------------------
Scott

Billy Ray · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2006, 06:48:31 PM »

Ebonite Says they do not publish them. Does Spin time effect whether you buy the ball or not?

It revs up easily, rolls extremely well and hits as hard or harder than anything else out there. Watch someone who throws it like you do and watch the ball read the lane. All the stats and specs on the balls are wonderful but I haven't run into anyone yet that can buy a ball on specs alone. Talk to your pro and talk to people in your area who own one and get their feelings on it.
I have two and they are both awesome for the conditions I drilled them for.

Bottom line its still about making shots and matching up.
A decent bowler with a good matchup can make you competitive against a good bowler with a bad matchup.

--------------------
Billy Ray
www.raysproshop.com
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"

Edited on 3/5/2006 7:45 PM

scotts33 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 05, 2006, 07:02:45 PM »

I own The One Billy Ray. Just like to know if anyone knows the spin time. Inquiring minds like to know these factors. BTW---I do match up with The One fairly well at 2000 abralon on most medium conditions. I also match up fairly well with a Morich TS&A on a heavy oil condition.

In another thread on the RG forum I asked why the difference in the Epic's spin time of 9 secs. and the Epic Battle's 5 secs.

I feel there is nothing wrong with asking a question but if you don't ask a question that is where the problem lies.

I would assume Ebonite doesn't feel spin time is important....and you need a De-Terminator to know that figure. Of course, I don't know that to be fact.
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Scott

JCLives · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2006, 12:06:06 PM »

5 to 6 seconds.
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Born Again and Heaven Bound (Ask Me How, if Interested)

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2006, 12:45:22 PM »

quote:
I own The One Billy Ray. Just like to know if anyone knows the spin time. Inquiring minds like to know these factors. ...
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Scott

Scott,

To date, I have ignored this number because I don't believe it to be a "factor". Here is part of why I do not hold it to be of any importance.
There are many balls that we call "flippy", implying a very strong movement at the backend, where balls transition from hook to roll. Many of those balls had been resin pearls, but, more and more, they are also particles, with some being pearl and some being solid, as well as non-polished resins. All the balls I am talking about are or were symmetric cores without MB or PSA, whichever is the more correct technical term.

Then along came asymmetrics or symmetric cores with a MB/PSA. These ONLY "flipped" when they were drilled for maximum "strong breakpoint". Otherwise, they were less "flippy".

I, for one, could hardly tell the difference between flippy symmetric and flippy MB/PSA balls, unless they were identified to me beforehand.

Then, many of the MB/PSA balls were intended for heavier oils; so, they have very strong coverstocks, making them grab the lanes earlier than less strong coverstocks. Sometimes, stronger cores made these balls appear to have more backend than weaker cores or more rolly cores. Of course, on true heavy oil, you want early and strong roll and less backend.

Thus far, in bowling ball evolution I see no purpose behind spin times except for marketing propaganda. I have no "feel" or analysis for what it actually means. SInce every ball brough out now has a 5 or 6 second "spin time", they must all be the same ball or at least has the identical ball reaction, no?

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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

scotts33 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2006, 12:54:06 PM »

quote:
hus far, in bowling ball evolution I see no purpose behind spin times except for marketing propaganda. I have no "feel" or analysis for what it actually means. SInce every ball brough out now has a 5 or 6 second "spin time", they must all be the same ball or at least has the identical ball reaction, no?

Jeff I agree. I was wondering why the difference in spin time of the RG Epic vs. the RG Epic Battle. I have The One and TS&A to compare but know that cores would be a very different story.

See Roger's answer here Jeff ----> http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=117258&ForumID=77&CategoryID=2
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Scott

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2006, 04:35:18 PM »

quote:
To date, I have ignored this number because I don't believe it to be a "factor". Here is part of why I do not hold it to be of any importance.

Jeff I agree. I was wondering why the difference in spin time of the RG Epic vs. the RG Epic Battle.

Hey guys, please don't get me started on that one again. For you people that don't have a problem with 5 second spin time, you will never understand, but for people that are in my style and class of bowling, there is a BIG difference as balls in the 5 secondspin time area and especially if they have a low RG, DO NOT WORK for us. Low RG balls with a higher spin time work the best for me, not low RG and 5 second spin time do not. I've spent $600 on three balls proving this.

Now in the case of the one, there is no record of it's spin time that I am aware of, but I have talked to one person that knows a bit about the One and since it does not have a real strong MB, he said he would estimate it's spin time to be in the 9 second range give or take a second or so, but that was only guestimating.

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Brick

a_ak57 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2006, 04:44:18 PM »

quote:
but I have talked to one person that knows a bit about the One and since it does not have a real strong MB, he said he would estimate it's spin time to be in the 9 second range give or take a second or so, but that was only guestimating.

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Brick

Uh, just to nitpick....The One's mass bias differential is .027. That's quite high, considering Track's highest mass bias ball, the Machine, is at .025. Also, Morich's highest mass bias ball, the Awesome Flip is at .028 (with a couple others around there). So whoever you were talking to maybe meant in the grand scheme of things, because in comparison to all the other balls on the market it has a strong MB value.

Not to mention, it's likely not the spin time you're having a problem with. It's likely just the fact that the balls with low spin times usually have very strong MB values, making them far more sensitive to drill layout and prone to not working if they aren't drilled correctly.
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- Andy

Billy Ray · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2006, 05:17:49 PM »

quote:
I own The One Billy Ray. Just like to know if anyone knows the spin time. Inquiring minds like to know these factors. BTW---I do match up with The One fairly well at 2000 abralon on most medium conditions. I also match up fairly well with a Morich TS&A on a heavy oil condition.

In another thread on the RG forum I asked why the difference in the Epic's spin time of 9 secs. and the Epic Battle's 5 secs.

I feel there is nothing wrong with asking a question but if you don't ask a question that is where the problem lies.

I would assume Ebonite doesn't feel spin time is important....and you need a De-Terminator to know that figure. Of course, I don't know that to be fact.
--------------------
Scott

The difference between the Epic and Battle spind times are because the weight block was modified in the Battle.
--------------------
Billy Ray
www.raysproshop.com
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2006, 06:25:54 PM »

quote:
quote:
but I have talked to one person that knows a bit about the One and since it does not have a real strong MB, he said he would estimate it's spin time to be in the 9 second range give or take a second or so, but that was only guestimating.

--------------------
Brick

Uh, just to nitpick....The One's mass bias differential is .027. That's quite high, considering Track's highest mass bias ball, the Machine, is at .025. Also, Morich's highest mass bias ball, the Awesome Flip is at .028 (with a couple others around there). So whoever you were talking to maybe meant in the grand scheme of things, because in comparison to all the other balls on the market it has a strong MB value.

Not to mention, it's likely not the spin time you're having a problem with. It's likely just the fact that the balls with low spin times usually have very strong MB values, making them far more sensitive to drill layout and prone to not working if they aren't drilled correctly.
--------------------
- Andy

I tried to tell him that, Andy.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

scotts33 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2006, 08:42:15 PM »

quote:
The difference between the Epic and Battle spind times are because the weight block was modified in the Battle.

That's what Roger said when I asked him that in the RG forum. http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=117258&ForumID=77&CategoryID=2

RG eveidently does check for spin times.

The issue that weighs the most for me on any ball whether assymetrical high MB/PSA or a symmetrical is to use them on the right lane condition.

It sure seems to me that The One for a low rg high MB/PSA is not as conditon specific as some other nigh MB/PSA balls...not sure why unless it's the stttrreeccched core. My guess is that it is. But that's just a guess.
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Scott

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2006, 08:55:13 PM »

quote:
I tried to tell him that, Andy.

Charlest, that doesn't mean you are right. Sorry you don't understand the situtation. Some people have difficulty understanding things, problems, etc. and don't possess the ability to understand them unless they experience them first hand. You don't have my style, revs, speed, type of hand, and so forth, so if you haven't been there, you don't really know. Only speculate because the numbers say a ball is supposed to do such and such, but that is no guarantee it will. Just because things say certain things on paper, doesn't always mean they work that way. As for not drilled right, I've had 3 balls with original drillings, plugged and redrilled a second time with one a 3rd time and they still don't match up. Thats 7 drillings and they don't work plus they were drilled by a former touring pro thats been around for quite sometime and knows the ball drilling/fitting/layout business as well as anyone, so I don't believe it is the drillings.....Nuff said.

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Brick

Edited on 3/11/2006 9:11 PM

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2006, 06:42:53 AM »

quote:
quote:
I tried to tell him that, Andy.

Charlest, that doesn't mean you are right. Sorry you don't understand the situtation. Some people have difficulty understanding things, problems, etc. and don't possess the ability to understand them unless they experience them first hand.

You may disagree with me, but don't tell me that I don't understand.

quote:

You don't have my style, revs, speed, type of hand, and so forth, so if you haven't been there, you don't really know.

But I'd bet the driller was not there on the alleys when you found those balls didn't work for you either.plus they don;t have your style, so, by your logic, they can't know either.

quote:

Only speculate because the numbers say a ball is supposed to do such and such, but that is no guarantee it will. Just because things say certain things on paper, doesn't always mean they work that way.
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Brick

It never did guarantee every ball will work for every bowler. There are far too many factors involved.

I am saying that your making this determination based on spin times is as accurate as some other bowler making their determination based solely on the core design or the coverstock design. You cannot isolate single factors from the design of a ball. I don't care who you are or how much experience you have or what your experience is.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

JCLives · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2006, 10:41:41 AM »

Just to let everyone know the spin time I posted was a ball undrilled placed a De-Terminator. Did it about a dozen times. Of course this will change with your drilling.
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Born Again and Heaven Bound (Ask Me How, if Interested)

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2006, 04:45:05 PM »

quote:
You may disagree with me, but don't tell me that I don't understand.

Charlest, yes I disagree with you and I will say it again that you don't understand. As I said before, .... "Some people have difficulty understanding things, problems, etc. and don't possess the ability to understand them unless they experience them first hand."

quote:
But I'd bet the driller was not there on the alleys when you found those balls didn't work for you either.plus they don;t have your style, so, by your logic, they can't know either.

Sorry, you are wrong again here. It appears by your logic that these low spin time balls will work for anyone which is not true. You have been around long enough that I know that you know that all balls don't match up to everyone, whether you want to admit it or not regardless of whether they are low spin time balls or not low spin time balls or Lane 1 balls or etc.

quote:
It never did guarantee every ball will work for every bowler. There are far too many factors involved.

Aha..... You said here in your own words that....."It never did guarantee every ball will work for every bowler. There are too many factors involved." Well, the low spin time balls is "one of those balls".

quote:
I am saying that your making this determination based on spin times is as accurate as some other bowler making their determination based solely on the core design or the coverstock design.

FYI, I am making my determination based on what I have both seen and experienced first hand. Your saying that low spin time has nothing to do with it is as accurate as saying "one ball fits all, no other balls needed."

quote:
You cannot isolate single factors from the design of a ball. I don't care who you are or how much experience you have or what your experience is.

Oh yes you can isolate factors. Remember, you are the one that said that .....
"It never did guarantee every ball will work for every bowler. There are far too many factors involved."......This is one of those balls that doesn't work because of a factor.

To sum this up, I know my bowling style and have experienced this problem first hand, and have spent enough money on about every drilling possible trying to make these type balls work and found that it doesn't happen. You have not seen me bowl, and don't seem to possess the ability/knowledge to understand it or want to try to understand it. The bottom line is I am not going to discuss this with you any further as regardless of whether you agree or disagree or you understand or don't understand, I really don't care as it is I and not you that knows what works and doesn't work for me so as far as I am concerned, further discussion of this topic is fruitless.

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Brick

Edited on 3/12/2006 4:47 PM

Author Topic: Spin Time on The One? (Read 6854 times)

scotts33

Spin Time on The One?

Billy Ray

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scotts33

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JCLives

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charlest

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scotts33

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Brickguy221

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a_ak57

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Billy Ray

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charlest

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scotts33

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Brickguy221

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charlest

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JCLives

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Brickguy221

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