Author Topic: Brunswick Equivalents? (Read 5090 times)

kjl456 · « **on:** March 28, 2007, 03:55:25 AM »

Curious - what are the "Brunswick equivalent" balls to the Elite PBA products?
Thanks.

bamaster · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2007, 11:26:33 AM »

I don't like the prices any more than I like the prices of Lane 1.

Except, at least I know that Elite is using widely tested and proven cores and covers, even if some are tweaked. Lane 1 charges inflated prices based on a "patented" diamond core.

I never thought Elite was duping anyone. Lane 1, on the other hand, does by claiming their core is so superior.
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Tony
My Bowling Classifieds
My Bowling Journal | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs

shelley · « **Reply #2 on:** April 05, 2007, 11:38:02 AM »

quote:
I never thought Elite was duping anyone. Lane 1, on the other hand, does by claiming their core is so superior.

Sorry, Tony. Every company thinks their products are superior. Company X claiming that X-brand widgets are better than Y-brand widgets is just marketing, not necessarily duplicitous. Charging twice the price for an off-color Monster Bruiser without showing the core shape, numbers, or coverstock info (which, frankly, is standard practice; find me one company that doesn't give that info out) is duplicitous.

Now they've moved away from that and have shown their designs so we know. In my opinion, they're not being particularly sneaky, though I haven't yet found out why I should pay those prices, regardless of what its made of or who makes it. A bowling ball simply isn't worth that kind of money to me, not when every other company also puts out excellent stuff for much lower prices. A bowling ball simply cannot be 30, 40, or 50% better than every other ball out there.

SH

laufaye · « **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2007, 12:15:06 PM »

quote:
As you all know, coverstocks are constantly tweaked and upgraded. That is why its not completely correct to call these balls equivalents. The core shapes have been very close, but if you look at the RG's and Diff's, you will notice that they are indeed different, in order to perform better on the PBA patterns that they were named for. Also, please understand that I have only worked for Elite for a short period of time, and I am still learning how each of the balls perform. So far, I like what I see.
You ask why my ball is worth $300 that I am charging for it. Elite only has 2 balls in the line that cost $300. What makes a ball worth anything? If it piques your interest, or fills a need, and its in your price range, it's worth it, if not, look around until you find something that does.

X-Guy,

You are the new sales rep, in a sense you want to sell ball or help the distributor/pro shop to sell balls. They way you saying is telling the potential customer to buy your balls if they can afford it, if they think they need it. I don't think that will help the customers to spend more money on your product, why? you did not advertise what so good about your product.

Bottom line, the market is asking you a question, How good is your product, why its worth more. They are not bashing your product, they just want to unstand more so they can convince themself to buy your product. So help them to help you.

My 2 cents.

quote:
I heard that there were comedians on this site.

This kind of statement as a sales rep won't help.
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Laufaye

bamaster · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2007, 02:10:24 PM »

quote:
Sorry, Tony. Every company thinks their products are superior. Company X claiming that X-brand widgets are better than Y-brand widgets is just marketing, not necessarily duplicitous. Charging twice the price for an off-color Monster Bruiser without showing the core shape, numbers, or coverstock info (which, frankly, is standard practice; find me one company that doesn't give that info out) is duplicitous.

Now they've moved away from that and have shown their designs so we know. In my opinion, they're not being particularly sneaky, though I haven't yet found out why I should pay those prices, regardless of what its made of or who makes it. A bowling ball simply isn't worth that kind of money to me, not when every other company also puts out excellent stuff for much lower prices. A bowling ball simply cannot be 30, 40, or 50% better than every other ball out there.

SH

I hear ya. I do recall when Elite didn't show the cores... almost like they were ashamed of using older cores (at the time).

Another case for increased price, and this holds true for Lane 1 as well, is the lack of sales volume. Brunswick has been known to LOSE money on some low end balls because the HAD to have a ball at an entry point. Of course, they can have a markup of $5/ball, which may be enough for a ball that sells 50,000 units.

Alternatively, the price Brunswick charges Bowlers Paradise for their pours is likely higher than it costs Brunswick to pour their own equipment.

Billy is a stand-up guy. He's always been honest when he was with Dyno-thane (and Track before). But no ball rep sets prices.

quote:
This kind of statement as a sales rep won't help.

It's a joke. Have a sense of humor.
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Tony
My Bowling Classifieds
My Bowling Journal | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs

RealBowler · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2007, 08:19:20 AM »

What's wrong with using older cores and coverstocks?

This site is filled with posts like "I miss my "X" ball. I wish I could find that reaction in one of the newer balls!" OR "man, I pulled ball "Y" out of my closet this weekend....this ball owns our THS (eats up carrydown), etc"

Just because something isn't the latest and greatest doesn't mean it won't work!

If they are using proven cores and proven coverstocks - doesn't matter if they tweak them or not....look at MoRich, sometimes Mo tweaks the covers and sometimes it's "just plain PK18."

The problem is that the "big boys" are under this pressure to come up with different looking cores and new covers so that we don't all come on here and complain "why should I buy this new ball, it's the same as the ball I had 2 years ago....it worked great, but changing the color and giving it a new name is pretty much pointless!"

Point is - we use balls to improve our game. Shouldn't matter what the name is, what the color is, what the core or cover are, as long as the ball knocks down the pins and helps you score!

Reality is - we pick balls based on the colors. We "ooh and awe" over the cool looking cores - doesn't matter that the RG and diff numbers are the same as another ball, the middle of the ball (which we can't see!) looks super cool!

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Haywood

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metallicaaaaaaa · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2007, 11:37:41 AM »

Ouch...someone just got burned....
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"We don't have a cow...we have a bull!"

qstick777 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2007, 05:27:06 PM »

I'd say RB and DF both have some valid points.

I remember the original backlash because Elite would not post pictures of their cores. Now they post pictures, provide numbers, etc. We may never know about the coverstock other than it's some base form from Brunswick.

I don't really think that's any different than any other manufacturer - a lot of stuff from Columbia was some form of Superflex. Do any of us really know what some of the covers on Brunswick's international balls are? Does Extreme SS, PK24, PK22, Extreme Plus, or any of those names really mean anything to us?

I also can see the benefit of the older balls. I think that is part of the reason the BVP line has been fairly successful. The stuff might not be the latest, but it works.

I can also understand why people would be upset paying $179 for the equivalent of a $100 BVP ball, but that really isn't my problem!
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Strapper_Squared · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2007, 06:40:52 PM »

quote:

The core shapes have been very close, but if you look at the RG's and Diff's, you will notice that they are indeed different

Really? I remember doing a little research when the line was first introduced and I am quite sure that at least some of the cores used in your PBA line had identical numbers and shapes to cores previously released by Brunswick. For example:

The Cheetah core (From Elitebowling.com):

Core: Vision
RG: 2.54
Diff: .032

The Scream/R core (From Bowlingballreviews.com):

Core 2-piece
RG 2.546
Differential 0.032

I'm not sold...

S^2
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RealBowler · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2007, 10:17:17 AM »

All this arguing is funny.

Really who cares? Let the company charge what they want. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

From what I've seen/read, the balls are good balls. Only the person buying it can decide if it's worth the cost.

Does it matter if it's old cores? You can't buy them anywhere else. Maybe they are the same as the international balls, but you can't even find those around (except the limited selection from bowlingball.com).

If you don't like it, gather up your money and call Brunswick. Pick your cover and core and make your own ball. They'll be happy to make you 400 balls of whatever you want!
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Haywood

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I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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tekneek · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2007, 10:38:08 AM »

everyone has an opinion, they're like elbows if you have shared yours then let it go. It does not mean you are right or wrong, its an opinion no more no less.
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Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
512-755-2947
e-mail tekneek@wildblue.net

Paypal address : tekneek@wildblue.net

tekneek · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2007, 11:50:13 AM »

well said
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Steve
Leading Edge Pro Shop
512-755-2947
e-mail tekneek@wildblue.net

Paypal address : tekneek@wildblue.net

RSalas · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2007, 12:01:32 PM »

quote:
I thought that everyone knew that Brunswick manufactures our equipment. We pick the core design, cover, RG and Diff, everything.

Just to clarify...

I spoke with one of your predecessors about a year ago, and he told me that Elite does in fact have their own additives, so the covers on the Elite balls aren't *exactly* the same as the equivalent Brunswick covers. Also, he indicated that while the Elite cores have the same *shape* as the Brunswick cores, the densities or distributions (or both) might be different.

Is this still true?
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "PoÃ¶ter BoÃ¶f" before that...

« **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2007, 12:34:15 PM »

I really don't think you'll find an exact match because Elite will make adjustments to the cover and core, etc.

Just curious. If you want a Brunswick equivalent, why not just buy the Brunswick?

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notclay

Author Topic: Brunswick Equivalents? (Read 5090 times)

kjl456

Brunswick Equivalents?

bamaster

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

shelley

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

laufaye

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

bamaster

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

RealBowler

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

metallicaaaaaaa

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

qstick777

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

Strapper_Squared

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

RealBowler

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

tekneek

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

tekneek

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

RSalas

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?

Re: Brunswick Equivalents?