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Author Topic: Latest from Voss  (Read 9873 times)

qstick777

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Latest from Voss
« on: February 13, 2007, 06:33:41 AM »
quote:
THE BOWLING BALL QUESTION
By Brian Voss
(2/15/2007)

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In the last edition of this column, I discussed the importance of putting words into action as part of contributing to positive changes in the sport of bowling. Naturally, the question that follows is, "There are so many problems out there to fix, which one should I focus on?" Obviously, that is a personal decision that each individual must figure out for himself, but the important factor is that you pick a cause that you feel strongly about and one that you are willing to put in the hard work required to influence change.

One topic that I feel very strongly about is the unchecked advancement in bowling equipment technology and its affect on the way in which the sport of bowling is now played. First off, I think it is very important for me to state that, as a player who has enjoyed some pretty decent success on Tour against the very best bowlers in the world for the past 25 years (has it really been that long?), and as someone who has won a recent Tour event (last January), that I'm very much a strong advocate of the idea that adapting your game to changing conditions and long-term trends is of the utmost importance in retaining your competitive edge. As much as anyone, I understand the importance of flexibility and versatility in playing this game at the highest possible level (and I'm not just talking about the Tour here, I'm talking about playing to your own maximum potential - whatever your skill level).

That being said, I have very real concerns about the influence that I believe the current state of bowling equipment technology is having on the declines in participation for the competitive element of the sport. While I will leave a more detailed discussion of that particular connection to another column, what I would like to focus on here is the impact that the way in which the game is currently played is having on the morale of the competitive bowler and the perception of bowling as a sport.

First of all, there is no question that lane conditions change much more quickly and much more dramatically than they have at any time since I began my bowling career. While this is frustrating for many - and undoubtedly has had its own effect on driving competitive bowlers away from the sport (albeit the less driven ones) - it is not the major cause for concern that I believe will have a more damaging long-term influence on the sport. In bowling, there are two basic factors that determine an individual's ability to compete and maximize scoring potential, namely: mistake area and carry percentage.

The effect that the latest equipment technology has caused for these two fundamental criteria is that it increases mistake area and it improves carry percentage. The ways in which bowling balls of today increase mistake area are well-documented, but a simple explanation is that, over time, the equipment can quickly "blow a hole" in the oil pattern, which creates more hook outside of target, thereby increasing mistake area on the lane. The amount of hook that the balls generate also enhances entry angle to the pocket, which leads to much higher carry percentages for everyone. The net effect of these changes are higher scores, which are well documented by the dramatic increase in PBA Tour averages over the past 15 years, despite a strong emphasis by the PBA Lane Maintenance crew on placing a premium on shot-making.

There are a few logical conclusions we can draw from these facts, but the most important are that bowlers have begun to understand that since there is more margin for error in both mistake area and carry percentage, that shot-making, while still important, is not as important as it was, say 15 years ago. The effect of that is less reliance on athletic talent and discipline and more on equipment knowledge, experimentation and simple, dumb luck. In my experience, when people feel like circumstances are beyond their control in any competitive endeavor, that is when they begin to lose interest and think about taking up something that allows them to gain that control through hard work, dedication and improvement through feedback.

What is the answer to this problem? All in good time. Until then, keep those letters coming and let us know what you think on this and other topics.

Brian Voss
 



Oh, by the way, don't forget to check out the Elite Alien balls - they are very "forgiving."

Blue Alien: http://www.bowlersparadise.com/shop/balls/elite/elite_blue_alien.shtml "eliminating the dreaded “over/under” ball reaction. The end result… more forgiveness!"


Alien  : " We are excited to offer our customers more forgiveness."
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Edited on 2/13/2007 3:32 PM

 

Easy10pins

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2007, 02:20:57 PM »
quote:
A sport should be dependent on physical abilities, not who's got the right ball in their hand in the right time.



Isn't that where the mental aspect of the game comes into play?  I know this pattern and I have these bowling balls to chose from.  I pick the right one for the lane condition.  I still need the physical ability (muscle memory, etc) to put the ball on target.  I mean, I can be a rev monster, but a TARGET ZONE is NOT going to get the job done.

Let one of the major ball manufacturers sponsor a tourney in which only 1 ball from their line-up can be used.  How many professional bowlers would actually go for that?

Edited on 2/14/2007 3:42 PM

jls

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2007, 02:32:20 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
Then why not use older equipment? I love how people with a 4 or 5 ball arsenal complain about the equipment. If you do not like the equipment, do not use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'll start using older equipment when my opponents all do the same.  Otherwise, I'd be at a *huge* competitive disadvantage.
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...



I knew somebody would say that. I know, if I had a problem with todays equipment, I would not use it. All these people that want it to change need to change themselves. Talk is about all you get out of people these days. Not many of us make a living from bowling, so, why does it matter if the other guy has an advantage? Personal goals are not decided by how others bowl.

Typical of what I see around here: "I hate how bowling balls today make the game so easy, I missed the old days"  Check the guys profile, he has an 8 ball arsenal. Is it the equipments fault or are most of us looking for that extra edge to get us on the winning side of things?

Same thing with Mr Voss. How can anyone take him serious? His articles are below a giant add for the latest and greatest, his ball company, has to offer.

Its like someone complaining about animal cruelty and when they go to put their coat on its made of real animal fur.




chad,  omg,   your killing me here.   i could not have said it any better!!!!

your are 100% no 1000% right on about mr voss and his new company.
he's the fuzzy z.  of bowling.   mr. fuzzy z. endorsed k-mart back in the middle 90's, before he put his foot in his mouth at the masters, and got fired.
he would say in his commercial's  "for your swing see a pro, for all your equipment, go to k mart"  and he was a pga member!!!!!  class act.  just shows how some will do anything for money!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jls31316

DukeHarding

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2007, 04:14:15 PM »
Jon,

Interesting impression you have of bowling in those periods.
I bowled from 1957-1982. I quit bowling until 1990-1, and have been bowling since. Each era's bowlers thought the next generation had it easier.

I agree with what you mentioned about the pin weight....or deaden the kickbacks. I've said this for a few years.

I think bowling is a heck of a lot more fun than it was back in "the day". Can't figure out why the young crowd isn't addicted to it...The pre-teens love bowling...somewhere along the line, we loose them.

BVs message to us bowlers is strange in the least.
He's reping high priced equipment...why not boycott the equipment?

quote:
Duke,

I was referring to the fact that lane conditions in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s were not as hard as old timers would like us to think they were. All you had to do was find the "slot" (each and every house with wood or lacquer lanes had a part of the lane that worked better than others) and get the ball to roll into the pins the right way.

Carry was hard to come by back then, mostly due to lack of revolutions or good roll, which is why certain bowlers always would beat those with less than desirable mechanics.

The only real difference now is that the balls allow a wider variety of bowlers to play more parts of the lane, creating better entry angles and better carry. More bowlers being competitive seems like a good thing to me. There are 10 times more variables now than 40 or 50 years ago.

In my opinion, pin technology has not kept up with ball technology. If the pins had gradually gotten heavier as the balls got stronger, you wouldn't see the scores so outrageous and the old timers wouldn't have much to complain about, except for the occasional solid 5-8 in the pocket....




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jls

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2007, 04:48:13 PM »
Duke,  todays young bowlers are a product of the grip it and rip it crowd.
much like with the young crowd in golf,  hit it as far as you can,  go find it, and hit it again.

recently i was drilling a 8 lbs plastic ball for a 6 year old girl.  when i had her throw it to me>>>>>>>>>>   she was a cranker,  just like her dad.

the jackie gleason days of bowling are over.  last week a customer told me,  he no longer gets in pots { heard that before } because it takes 279 or better to win.

i like b. voss,  always have, always will.  not real happy about who he endorses,  but
that's not the point.  not saying there is anything wrong with their equipment.
just saying it is basically a special makeup line of balls,  sold by a online dealer.   and according to one pro shop guy,  he says he is able to buy them!!!
and sell them in his shop.

but the fact reminds,  todays bowlers want high scores,  much like todays golfers want 300 yd. drives.   take it away from them/  and there gone.
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jls31316

DukeHarding

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2007, 05:12:18 PM »
jls,

I always have liked B.V., I also like Norm Duke, mey him when he was a young kid...I also like Petraglia, Roth, Anthony, Don Johnson, Larry Laub, Marion Ladewig, Steve Nagy...to name a few.
quote:
Duke,  todays young bowlers are a product of the grip it and rip it crowd.
much like with the young crowd in golf,  hit it as far as you can,  go find it, and hit it again.

recently i was drilling a 8 lbs plastic ball for a 6 year old girl.  when i had her throw it to me>>>>>>>>>>   she was a cranker,  just like her dad.

the jackie gleason days of bowling are over.  last week a customer told me,  he no longer gets in pots { heard that before } because it takes 279 or better to win.

i like b. voss,  always have, always will.  not real happy about who he endorses,  but
that's not the point.  not saying there is anything wrong with their equipment.
just saying it is basically a special makeup line of balls,  sold by a online dealer.   and according to one pro shop guy,  he says he is able to buy them!!!
and sell them in his shop.

but the fact reminds,  todays bowlers want high scores,  much like todays golfers want 300 yd. drives.   take it away from them/  and there gone.
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jls31316

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www.dukeharding.com

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splendorlex

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2007, 09:58:23 AM »
quote:
I don't believe people quit because of new bowling balls, I believe less new people come along to replace the old die harders. When it only takes a year or so to have a 200 avg, bowling loses its credability as a sport, and people don't join the leagues and such.


Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.


Sure, if you find Rev-O's old house or another great wall of china and learn to throw it right and watch it come back, but it still takes a lot longer than that for most bowlers to average over 200.  I'd venture to say hitting the 180 area is a lot easier, but 200 isn't necessarily a given.
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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2007, 10:47:30 AM »
I, too, have heard much on this subject, and I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments. Here is my question:

If someone is a great bowler because of his experience and great technique, etc., SHOULDN'T THAT SAME BOWLER STILL BE GREAT WITH THE "GRENADES" THAT WE ALL THROW TODAY????

I admire the people who can find a way to score on the most demanding of conditions, I really do. But if you're that good, shouldn't you also be able to beat me on the house shot? If you do, great! But I don't remember anyone apologizing to me for beating me with the new stuff, therefore don't complain if (by pure chance) I outscore you...

I've been beaten by lots of bowlers who maybe didn't hit the right side of the pocket all the time, POOP HAPPENS!  I will get my share of wins, and if I don't, I will work on my game, because there is no defense in bowling, only offense. If my shots are producing strikes, you've got to carry strikes, too.
 
My self esteem is not directly connected to my average, or tournament wins, or bracket money, or anything bowling related. Actually, I try to treat others (even bowlers) respectfully and then I feel better about myself.
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Laneman

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2007, 06:05:23 PM »
isn't the idea....to blow a hole in the pattern....
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tburky

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2007, 09:41:51 PM »
quote:
quote:


I'm getting really tired of having to THINK so much while bowling. The sport used to be much simpler for the true serious competitor - and I'm starting to hit a burn out.




Do you understand what you just said? You're tired of THINKING? I thought the game was so easy now that you didn't have to THINK?

Old timers used to have it easy. The bowlers with the best combination of accuracy and physical ability always won. No THINKING, just find the slot and hit your mark....

Now the game is taking a turn towards being more mentally challenging than ever before. Regardless of easy lane conditions and "hook in a box" ball reactions, there are millions of more variables now that ever before (ball, layout, surface, lanes, transition..etc.) making it increasingly harder to "match up".

Combine this with still needing relatively good accuracy and decision making skills (on harder conditions) and you have one of the hardest sports to master at a very high level. And yet it is relatively easy to be competitive.

This to me makes the game more competitive and opens the doors to ANY style of bowler winning at any given moment. Why is this such a bad thing? Poker has relished this in their arena. Professional Bowling should do the same.....
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I agree 100%. What the equipment does is add another challenge to the game. Do I need to make a ball change or not. Always trying to stay ahead of the moves on the lane as the lane transititons is challenging.The equipment is better but does it automatically strike for the bowler? The answer is no...it may help a bowler get to the pocket, it may help blow a hole in the pattern, it may increase angle, but you still got to have the right angles and speed to carry. Equipment does help lower average bowlers...sorta like handicapping. But, not to the high average numbers like people claim. Mr. Voss realizes that his days of competiveness with the younger bowlers is almost over. Basically,(I may be wrong on this) he wants the equipment to return to the past because it helps him and in essence gives him handicap to compete. Personally, I have nothing against Mr. Voss. He is a great bowler with lots of accomplishments and that can never be taken away from him. as Chris Barnes has stated in his PBA posts "adapt or perish". I agree.

Edited on 2/21/2007 10:41 PM

Slopsurprise

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2007, 02:36:28 PM »
Voss is getting over the hill and knows it. Maybe he had success in the days of older equpiment but, I guarntee you if he stepped out on the lanes against the younger guys he bowls now and they both had the older equipment, he would get spanked even worse. Not only has the balls changed, the bowler has changed also. The bowlers from back in the day were accurate but, they couldnt usually generate a steep angle to carry strikes like todays players on the PBA tour. Voss is an iddiot and is talking out of his butt again. You would think a bowler of his caliber would have a bit more sense about the current sport than that.

Eddie M

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2007, 03:12:47 PM »
quote:
Voss is an iddiot and is talking out of his butt again.


Voss has more room to talk than anyone on these boards ever will.  You are the "iddiot".
Right Handed
Motiv Venom Shock, Motiv Freestyle, Storm Mix
avg: 221 - hg: 300 x7

Left Handed
Storm Street Fight, Storm Mix
avg: 180

Slopsurprise

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2007, 03:25:39 PM »
quote:
quote:
Voss is an iddiot and is talking out of his butt again.


Voss has more room to talk than anyone on these boards ever will.  You are the "iddiot".

Did you think that up all by yourself???? WOW!

In most cases you are right, now tell me why he is infact correct in this case. There is alot of evidence posted that would go to prove he is talking out of his butt. The point we are talking about is Voss's latest comments about new balls, not other issues about bowling. If you dont offer a "good" argument to why he is so right in this case, you sir have no place calling ANYONE an iddiot. Come on, what do you have?

Give him a Blue Dot and players like Robert Smith, Tommy Jones, Chris barnes, or anyone that can get a handful of it a blue dot also and let them loose on one of todays patterns. The power guys will kill voss becasue, he cant get enough into it to carry consistantly due to lack of angle. Yeah, if bowling went back to old technology he would fall further behind yet, he wants older technology? Sounds like he is over the hill, unwilling to adapt, making excusses, or talking out of his butt.

Edited on 3/1/2007 4:25 PM

Edited on 3/1/2007 4:26 PM

Eddie M

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2007, 04:24:34 PM »
Imagine if you will, that Voss is talking about all bowlers, and not just the top tier pros.  The average league bowlers average has gone up ALOT.  Is it because all league bowlers are just that much better?  No.  Is it because lane men have more of a clue about how to run the lanes than 20 years ago?  No.  Is it because shoes are better now than they used to be?  No.  It is almost entirely ball technology that has made the game easier for most bowlers.  

20 years ago if you threw a bad shot, you didn't get a strike.  10 years ago if you missed your make, you missed the pocket.  Ball technology takes the guy who would have been a 160 avg 15 yrs ago, and makes him into 200 avg bowler.  Miss right?  It's okay your ball will hit up.  Miss left, not a problem, the ball will hold.  That is what Voss is pointing out.  A game that used to reward skill and the ability to repeat a shot exactly, has begun to reward the average hack for spraying the ball right and letting it come back.

Sure the top line pro bowlers may beat Voss, but there is a reason those guys are at the top of the game.  I would also guarantee Voss would win his fair share.  But if you were to take an average 20 team league, and require they only use pre 1992 equipment, I would bet anything the league average would drop 25 pins across the board.

You claim he is over the hill, and is talking out of his butt.  I however think anything that comes out of Brian Voss' butt, has more bowling talent, and room to talk here, than you or I ever will.


Right Handed
Motiv Venom Shock, Motiv Freestyle, Storm Mix
avg: 221 - hg: 300 x7

Left Handed
Storm Street Fight, Storm Mix
avg: 180

qstick777

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2007, 08:04:13 PM »
quote:


Give him a Blue Dot and players like Robert Smith, Tommy Jones, Chris barnes, or anyone that can get a handful of it a blue dot also and let them loose on one of todays patterns. The power guys will kill voss becasue, he cant get enough into it to carry consistantly due to lack of angle. Yeah, if bowling went back to old technology he would fall further behind yet, he wants older technology? Sounds like he is over the hill, unwilling to adapt, making excusses, or talking out of his butt.

Edited on 3/1/2007 4:25 PM

Edited on 3/1/2007 4:26 PM


Sorry, but I don't think any of the "power" guys are going to create much angle "on todays patterns" using a Blue Dot.

Given your scenario, I would put my money on Norm Duke, Brian Voss, Walter Ray, and PB III over the "power guys."  Those guys have no problem throwing up 1 thru 10 straight to the pocket.  I'm not saying the "power guys" can't do that, but I haven't seen them on ESPN Classics using old school, "low tech" balls.
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r534me

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Re: Latest from Voss
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2007, 01:38:45 PM »
sorry to respond to such an old thread.  Entertaining to say the least.

It might not be on espn classics but try to find a video of Brent Wolfe bowling winning the abc masters(can't remember the year but it was within the last five years).  You'll see him tearing up the rack using a blue hammer(might not be old school enough for some though).  

On the recent TOC power dominated finesse.  TJ was going up the boards...yes, I think it can be done by today's power players..going up the boards.  Maybe, the young thb will not but the seasoned, successful, pro bowler with power can and will.

BTW, I am not a power bowler..just presenting my observations.