BallReviews

Equipment Boards => Hammer => Topic started by: dballz on August 27, 2008, 01:10:21 AM

Title: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 27, 2008, 01:10:21 AM

do you think a NM Beatn would be good for a bowler who has more than average speed, and is more of a stroker?

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 27, 2008, 10:12:00 AM

I think you should save your money and look elsewhere.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 27, 2008, 10:19:54 AM

that was kind of my thought as well. maybe i will talk the guy into getting a black widow bite instead, and drill it really strong.

thanks Nicanor

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Fatboy8 on August 27, 2008, 10:27:37 AM

I never really matched up to the No Mercy series. IMO, they're alot better choices in the Hammer line up.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 27, 2008, 10:32:35 AM

I don't know what kind of lane condition he is bowling on, but the Bite is very versatile and with a lower pin, the ball revs up easily, retains energy and carry is tremendous.  But not a heavier oil ball.  The Bite follows the oil line very well and can explode off the break point.  My ball speed is about 18 mph and I'm drilling my second Bite now.  Drilled three Black Widows and a pearl and I have not had the success that I've had with the Bite.

I had two NM Beatn's drilled three different ways and had no luck with any drilling.  Thats me and my opinion, but I have read many reviews that have the same view on the NM Beatn.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 27, 2008, 10:38:01 AM

I have a friend that is exactly that and he tore up league with it and finished near top 100 in the US open with it!

He loved it!  He said the BeatN was the ONE!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: rvmark on August 27, 2008, 11:18:47 AM

The top bowler I bowl against is a stroker (Ave 215-231 in 4 different leagues in 2 houses) and the first ball out of his bag last year was the Beat'n.  Have not looked at the drill he had but that he told me that was his go to ball.

Mark

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 27, 2008, 11:22:24 AM

he is just bowling on a normal league pattern. oil in the middle about 38-39ft, drier track area. he has a Mo-Rich ball now, but that has more of a skid reaction. so i figured we could put the pin 3 3/8", mb 45-50*, and keep the surface around 1000. this will allow the ball to grab much sooner than the Mo-Rich nugget. then if they dry up, he can switch.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 27, 2008, 11:32:39 AM

this guy is just starting to get into bowling a little more. might average between 170-190.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: rvmark on August 27, 2008, 02:31:12 PM

In all reality if you have a good proshop to work with I would have them work with him to pick out the ball and the drilling that should work for his game.  That has worked well for me over the past two years as I have upgraded my game and my arsenal.  Every day someone talks about how a ball did not match up for their game and a reply from another that it is the best ball going for them.  

Mark

Edited on 8/27/2008 2:31 PM

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 27, 2008, 03:28:04 PM

I think that since he is the beginning stages of learning this game is more reason to stay away from the NM Beat'n though it looks like he has a great start.

LL,   I agree that someone can do very well with a ball, especially someone who is an outstanding bowler.  I don't know what ball Jeff Carter used to average 263 for a season, but it might not be a ball or drilling that I would recommend to a beginner bowler with a 170-190 average.  There are many bowling balls that are more user friendly then the NM Beat'n IMHO.



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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 27, 2008, 03:43:52 PM

The only reason I recommended it is because my friend is pure mostly up the back stroker.  Because of his style he found the backend quite appealing.

He drilled it #1 with the pin down a bit lower than his ring finger and the negative mass bias in his track!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: stormed1 on August 28, 2008, 12:38:27 AM

I've drilled several for people and they have had good to great results with it ( as long as you see enough oil). One of my customers went 300-300 out of the box with it. Just make sure you have a driller that "has a clue" what's going on drill it.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 28, 2008, 08:58:19 AM

Sorry,  
its an older ball and there are pleantly of bowling balls on the market that are much better then the Beat'n.
its not a ball that works well with surface changes IMO though I know you can sand/polish the ball.  I'm talkling with my experience with two different Beat'ns with a total of three different drillings.

I think it would help to know what kind of lane conditions he is bowling on and a little more about his style before saying the Beat'n is a good ball for him.

Again, I think there is a lot more flexibility with the Bite then the Beat'n just to stay with Hammer.  But I think a ball that picks up sooner like the Cell could be a great choice or maybe a little more back end with the Dimension.  Maybe a medium priced ball like the T-Road solid.

I think that the Bite will help him because the the Bite will corner/carry better for a stroker then a Beat'n will.  The Cell has had volumes written about it and the Dimension is the Cell with the back end being on steriods, not that he wants all the back end but the power will help kick out the 10 pin.

Hammerheads can defend the Beat'n all they want, but it wasn't a great ball when it came out, surely didn't have all the back end it said it would have as compared to the No Mercy and you don't see them on the racks or with regards to reviews that you see the BW, Bite, Cell or the T-Road solid.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 8/28/2008 9:00 AM

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 28, 2008, 09:00:03 AM

its not so much the oil im concerned about. its his speed. we are working with him to slow down a tad, so that he will be able to get a little more turn on the ball. he has a tendancy to want to throw it hard, which then doesn't give the ball time to really react.

i have a used NM beatn in my closet. maybe i will let him have it and see what we can do with it.

thanks again for all the responses. will try to let you know what we went with and the results.

i really enjoy this forum, because of all the information you can obtain from experienced people.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 28, 2008, 09:06:28 AM

dballz,you have a Beat'n?  Did you throw it?  If so, what was your thoughts?

My ball speed is 18 mph and I get in trouble with longer oil.  Add fast speed and a stroker, he can almost use any ball to average 170-190.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 8/28/2008 9:06 AM

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: mmcfarland300 on August 28, 2008, 09:07:28 AM

Nicanor,

I'm not trying to start anything but the NM, and the Beat'n are the only 2 Hammer balls in the last 2 years I would buy.  I have never owned a Hammer so I think I am able to say I am unbiased in this opinion.  The No Mercy and the Beat'n were both good medium to medium heavy oil balls.  If your driller knows what there doing and does the necessary work to research the drilling with the Heart in track.  In my area the NM and Beat'n were just as popular as the BW.

Furthermore there is a reason why you don't see them on the racks and thats because they are discontinued the other balls you mentioned are still in production.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 28, 2008, 09:08:14 AM

I've got one...undrilled....saw a nice straighty with one the other day who on our oily wood house was having a nice day with it!

I can see nothing the matter with the ball, in person, on videoballreviews and on youtube by Buddies(of course that Chris throws it SO good!)!

I have seen personally all the balls discussed by Nicanor and this ball is slightly different (lots of backend motion for a solid).  I am a fan of the Troad solid and the Cell and see them as slightly different.

The Cell.....very smooth and even and continuous, the Troad solid straighter in the heads but a consistent strong backend, and the beatN lots of midlane ANd a pretty sharp backend a lot like the Troad solid but I believe one would play deeper with the Beatn.

If the comment is regarding user friendly I sort of get what Barry is saying.
However if the shot is fairly wet and the bowler is a straighty I believe it could be a wonderful matchup.

All great balls with slightly different approaches to the lane!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS Dimension have only seen on Video ball reviews....so less of an informed opinion.
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: baltimora on August 28, 2008, 09:13:41 AM

i loved mine but it lost its reaction very quickly
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Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 28, 2008, 09:24:28 AM

Its amazing that Hammer is very popular here in San Diego, mostly the BW series. Storm and Brunswick very popular also, but Hammer had a great run here in San Diego. The Blue Vibe is another great ball to consider and the Cherry Vibe is a great ball but the Blue is more consistant and is more versatile imo.

There are so many bowlers with the different combinations of speed and release its hard for the average bowler to know what ball will work for what person.  When we make a suggestion to bowlers concerning bowling balls we all have our opinions what works and what might not.

If a bowler isn't a member of the ball of the month club, then we should recommend a ball that is versatile, consistant and user friendly.  In my opinion, the Beat'n is not the best ball for the consideration for this bowler and again, I have thrown this ball and it is just an opinion, I know everone has one.

I'm not bashing Hammer here and I respect everyone's opinion. So this thread to me is conversation, not being arguementative.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 28, 2008, 09:31:12 AM

Nicanor, i didn't mind the ball, but the houses in my area are not the slickest in the world, nor the longest. lately i have been throwing a bite and a doom.

i didn't have much use for the beatn after i drilled it. so i am not saying it is a bad ball by any means, just not useful enough for me around home. if i bowled more tourneys outside of the area, i would probaby need it. but right now i don't, so i might as well give it to someone who might be able to use it more.

i do work in a pro shop as well(and still learning), but i like to hear different opinions from others. i don't claim to know everything, so i am always trying to learn as much as i can.

i will try to get my friends pap and other info on here tomorrow, and we can discuss some more possibilites for him. thanks guys!!

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: mmcfarland300 on August 28, 2008, 09:35:31 AM

Nicanor,

Do you think the vibe line would work for someone with his stats of high speed and lower revs?

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 28, 2008, 10:07:53 AM

mmcfarland300,

I still think the Bite is a better choice but if its not long oil, I think the Blue Vibe is an outstanding ball and very versatile.  If the backends are strong or there is shorter oil, the Cherry Vibe might work, but rather get a Cherry Vibe with his ball speed, he could easily adjust the cover of the Blue Vibe.  I haven't thown the Emerald Vibe.




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: mmcfarland300 on August 28, 2008, 10:13:22 AM

Interesting take I gues I have never looked at the vibe for a stroker.  I was thinking more Raw Anger in the Hammer line.  The vibe could work if dulled a little.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 28, 2008, 10:13:55 AM

the backends are not too bad. never considered the blue vibe, but that isn't a bad choice either.

i will present him with the 3 choices:
Bite
Beatn
Blue Vibe

and see what he says. it is his money after all.

what is great about this guy, is that he really has an open mind and wants to learn the game. so making suggestions such as where to stand, and surface adjustments will not be a problem for him.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 28, 2008, 10:30:11 AM

I have two Angers and they were very rolly for me.  I still have the Beat'ns also.  Maybe one day I'll take them to practice.  Both the Beat'n and the Angers lost their angularity or the ability to read the lane very quickly.




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: mmcfarland300 on August 28, 2008, 10:53:00 AM

Wouldn't rolly be good for a stroker versus angular.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 28, 2008, 02:13:43 PM

Thats a good question mmcfarland300.  If I were a stroker and threw a rolly ball, I would leave a lot of corner pins (10 pins). If I had a ball that was angular, maybe not hockey stick angular, but strong off the break point, then I would think that would help the stroker kick out 10 pins and give the stroker a little more area.

Hopefully we can get some more discussion on this.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 28, 2008, 02:44:56 PM

so maybe we don't go with the 45*?
maybe a BW Bite and do a 4", 60*, 1k? polish or not?

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 28, 2008, 02:56:15 PM

Well that was how it worked for my stroker friend!  Lots of angularity for a solid allowed him to carry when he is forced inside(where he used to have trouble).  Also patterns like US open and stuff where forced inside.

It's solid smooth angularity gave him a nice look and carry.

Of course on the complete no mercy series words like 45 degree and 60 degree are not applied.  Instead one thinks of the mass bias in the track...ie 135 or mass bias an inch off the track ie 105 degrees etc.

My stroker friend....went with a pin down drilling #1 ....ie 135 degrees (mb in track).

Beautiful!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 28, 2008, 03:07:21 PM

so here are a few choices:
Beatn: around 4" pin down, around 135* and mb in track(1-2 flare ring), and about 2k abr

or

Bite: 4", 60*, 1k abr/polish

any thoughts fellas?

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: Nicanor on August 28, 2008, 04:06:59 PM

I think dballz had a good solution, if dballz would loan his NM Beat'n, he could find out first hand.

So far as all Hammer bowling balls, surface adjustment and drilling are a major part of the balls reaction.

I think any bowling balls that people can throw for whatever reason.  Some can hook a plastic ball coast to coast and on the same lanes a bowler can have a hook monster and not be able to hook the ball at all.  There ar some house shots that guide the ball to the pocket, so a very good bowler would be able to get to the pocket regardless.  So I believe that bowlers can score well with the NM Beat'n, just don't think its a ball for a relative beginner.


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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

Edited on 8/28/2008 4:08 PM

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on August 29, 2008, 11:41:14 AM

i probably shouldn't of said he averages that high, because he hasn't really ever bowled in any leagues. just from working with him though, he has improved and around 50-60% of his games lately have been around those scores.

sorry for the bad info there.

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: chatnboy on August 31, 2008, 12:46:47 AM

dballz....please give your beat'n to this up and coming bowler and let's see just how it will match up with him.nicanor...it's obvious you've had a bad experience with this ball but it will not stunt this bowler's growth to try this ball...!!!i bet you any amount of money if he punches this ball up and throws it on the lanes....he'll love it!!!just my instincts but anyways....a teammate of mine got a beat'n drilled up last season and throw the heck out of that ball!!!he loved his beat'n and everyone i know that has one loves it!!!!i think it a very over-rated ball.dballz....let us know what transpires with this post!!!
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Go Hard or Go Home!!!Bowl Your Best...ALWAYS!!!

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 31, 2008, 08:52:34 PM

chat...

I feel that you might mean the ball...is UNDER rated?

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Title: Re: ? on NM Beatn
Post by: dballz on September 02, 2008, 09:52:13 AM

i will let him try my beatn out. will go with the 4" pin down, and hart in the track, closer to the thumb. will start the surface at 1k abralon and go from there. will let you guys know the results of it.

thanks again for all of your suggestions and comments!!