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Author Topic: Big Blue  (Read 4183 times)

da Shiv

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Big Blue
« on: December 08, 2003, 06:04:43 PM »
Let me say a couple things first, before I get to my main topic.

First; Big Blue may very well turn out to be an excellent ball, and I hope it does.  I'm very interested in hearing about it myself, and I check the posts here for any new information frequently.

Second; in my seven ball line-up there are four Hammers--two Diesels and two Blades, so I'm not knocking Hammer.

Now here's what I'm really getting to in this post.  Hammer is touting this ball as the "resurrection" of the old, beloved Blue Hammer.  Their pre-release literature has been rolling up the hype for that for some time.  Besides the recent stuff that actually shows what the ball looks like and gives some of it's numbers, a few months ago they got it started with mysterious teaser ads that said only that resurrection day was coming--nothing else.

Here's what I don't understand:  How does a new particle resin ball with an asymmetrical core have any relationship whatsoever to an old urethane ball with a symmetrical core?  The color is the same, and that's it, isn't it?  Is there something that I'm not seeing?  It seems to me that Hammer is just playing on the nostalgia that so many people have for their old Blue Hammers.  Why not just re-release the old Blue Hammer exactly as it was back in the day?

To reiterate, Big Blue may be a fine ball; but does it have any relationship whatsoever to the old Blue Hammer?  Let's evaluate this ball for what it is, not for something that it sort of looks like.

Shiv
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Jeffrevs

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2003, 10:49:31 AM »
Shiv,
I wondered the same thing............
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JEFF
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johns811

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2003, 10:55:47 AM »
I think you hit the nail on the head right there.

I would still like to see a modern day weight block with the old urethane cover. Storm ThunderFlash and Columbia Black Messenger were the only 2 balls that I can think of and I don't think either one is available anymore.

quote:
.   It seems to me that Hammer is just playing on the nostalgia that so many people have for their old Blue Hammers.  --------------------
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thegame

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2003, 01:53:02 PM »
I think the fact is that the game has changed, in terms of lane surface and oiling procedures, and to create the same ball reaction that the original Blue had back in the day, a few changes probably had to be made.  I've had a urethane, (the Black Messenger actually), and the ball reaction was great....when the lanes were just right for it, usually pretty dry, not a very versatile ball for me at least.  With the particle coverstock, and the lowered differential, I think this ball will provide a ball reaction that I don't have in my bag right now.  I get what you're saying, and in theory, it is an excellent question, and it really scared me when I threw it at the Demo Days, and the ball did very little, but since the tweak in coverstock, I'm going to drill mine tomorrow, and I'll post the results as soon as I get some good info on it.
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da Shiv

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2003, 02:02:12 PM »
Thanks for the answer, Ed.  As I said, I find the ball interesting.  Having just purchased a Sharp Blade last Thursday, I'm going to sit tight and wait for some more feedback from other bowlers about Big Blue.

I'm still curious about why you don't try a reissue of the original Blue in it's original form.  Most bowlers don't show much interest in urethanes anymore, I admit; but the more avid bowlers such as are in abundance in this forum are frequently looking for a good urethane ball.  I know a few pretty good bowlers who still mostly use original Blue Hammers; and on a condition where I mostly use a Diesel Particle Solid!  I don't know about densities, but in appearance at least the old Blue Hammer's core is the same as the one currently in use in the Blades, isn't it?  I'll bet a reissue of the original Blue would sell big--perhaps even more so if it was manufactured in a "limited run," increasing the cachet involved in having one.  (Hmmm....could this idea already be on the back burner until everyone sees how the new Big Blue does???)

Shiv
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Edited on 12/9/2003 3:05 PM
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da Shiv

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2003, 02:27:31 PM »


Shiv
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TruckFreak69

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2003, 03:27:42 PM »
It's a ball I'm very interested in as well, and PA threw it nicely
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charlest

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2003, 06:22:44 PM »
Shiv,

If I may offer an opinion ...

When a manufacturer offers a ball that's a new version of an old ball, it has basically two possible approaches.
1. The ball is identical to the old or original one. Columbia tried to do that with the Pulse and failed because the coverstock was not identical.
OR
2. The ball replaces the original ball's position in the manufacturer's line-up/arsenal within the definition of the current oil pattern environmnet. Several Manufacturer's have tried to do that. I believe Track falied with the Threat replacing the Heat, but DynoThane succeeded with the Thing replacing the Heat. (Folks, don't get all excited; this may or may not be true for you; I am just using this as an example.)

I believe, based on Hammer's description of Big Blue AND on Jeff Lizzi's performance using several drillings of Big Blue on a recent PBA TV show, that Hammer has chosen the 2nd option.

When the Blue Hammer came out, it was their premier oiler and it had a gentle, large hooking arc (because the cover was so darn hard to modify! I know, I tried.). Big Blue seem to have that because they kept the RG differential low, while having a strong Mass Bias. The ball appears to be very smooth, and very much an oiler, NO MATTER WHAT ITS COVER IS MADE OF. I believe that is not pertinent to that discussion UNLESS you believe Hammer is trying to follow option #1.

(FYI as someone already mentioned the Storm ThunderFlash, with its super-aggressive urethane cover and huge flaring core, was basically THE direct replacement for the original Blue Hammer.)
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No Fear

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2003, 01:03:34 AM »
First of all when buying a Hammer today You are not buying a Hammer(Faball)...You are buying Ebonite....Ebonite only purchased the Hammer name not Hammer's(Faballs)technology....So for all Hammer purists...Hammer really no longer exists!!!!!.....Ebonite acts like they are the original Hammer because it's good for business.....Comparing the original blue Hammer to this new big blue Hammer is like comparing an apple to an orange....This does not mean that Ebonite Hammers are bad.....Just that Hammer really no longer exists....Ebonite made a very good business deal on buying the Hammer name.....I operate a pro shop & most bowlers today do not even know Hammer changed ownership...My hat goes off to Ebonite for a good business deal.... Ebonite is very good at hyping up their product.....Remember the old days....Buy an Ebonite gyro because it is gyro balanced????....Ebonite knows most bowlers still believe in the Magic Bowling Ball....Good bowlers know that the Magic ball does not exist....But Ebonite knows most bowlers still believe that one does.
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BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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Re: Big Blue
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2003, 02:25:16 AM »
Actually what they meant by resurrection was more or less ball reaction.  Just as the old blue hammer gave bowlers the "hook the whole lane with backend continuation" on wood and short oil in the urethane days, the Big Blue is promising to do that, being a particle ball that hooks in oil and stores continuation on the backend.  There may be some marketing ploy to help sales with the comparison, but its the ball reaction thats being compared, hence the comparison. And, might I add, it does an excellent job of at what they said it would do, and the ball sales are on fire and the people are believers.
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