BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Hammer => Topic started by: qstick777 on October 04, 2007, 07:15:00 AM
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Okay, we know Hammer has used the core in a couple of balls (as listed below). I'm just wondering why it seems that only the Black Widow line has really been a success.
I remember hearing that the Big Blue (and Pearl) was either love or hate. I don't remember hearing anything about the Big Deal. Same core as the BW. What makes the BW line that much better than the rest? Is it just a great combo of core and coverstock?
Big Blue: http://123bowl.com/ball.asp?ballid=2144
Big Blue Pearl: http://123bowl.com/ball.asp?ballid=2273
Added flip block:
Big Deal: http://123bowl.com/ball.asp?ballid=2577
BW: http://123bowl.com/ball.asp?ballid=2871
BWP: http://123bowl.com/ball.asp?ballid=2966
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The big deal and big blue pearl were really popular and impressive around here.
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
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According to my driller, 80% of the ball reaction is due to the coverstock, not the core.
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Tried a used big deal and it was not near the ball as the Black Widow.
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
specs and transaction record (positive and negative) in my profile
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After the original Deal was released, Ebonite/Hammer when through a big coverstock change. They spent months on developing the new coverstock, and the Black Widow features the new version of this coverstock. The older balls didn't absorb much oil.
I had a Big Blue Pearl and a Big Deal, and they were both great balls. I drilled 3 of the Big Deal, and would have drilled more if I could have gotten my hands on them.
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Thanks
Bill
BuddiesProShop.com
"The Place All Bowlers Shop"
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quote:
According to my driller, 80% of the ball reaction is due to the coverstock, not the core.
Cool...that means I can put the pin pretty much where ever I want and just alter the cover to get the desired shot shape
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TEAM HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
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quote:
quote:
According to my driller, 80% of the ball reaction is due to the coverstock, not the core.
Cool...that means I can put the pin pretty much where ever I want and just alter the cover to get the desired shot shape
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TEAM HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
Only if you take all your covers to 4000!
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Current arsenal:
Hammer Black Widow - Pin above bridge, 45 deg MB, 4000 grit Coverstock
Ebonite Total NV - trick layout, Pin 4 1/2" from PAP, 1 1/2" from VAL, MB 80 deg, x-hole to remove excess finger weight, 4000 with polish
Raw Hammer Toxic - Drilled pin above bridge, CG strong, 4000 grit polished Coverstock
Hammer Vibe Blue - light oil ball, 4000 grit with polish
Ebonite Maxim Captain Midnight - Spare ball
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Haywood
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I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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quote:
Only if you take all your covers to 4000!
In case you didn't know, those are all the factory finishes.
Edited on 10/5/2007 7:56 AM
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I'm not sure. The CT particle on the razor blade is awesome. No, it doesn't have the oil absorbtion that new ebo/hammer covers have, but I guarantee they last longer. I was able to use this ball on heavier patterns like shark and scorpion. No, I couldn't swing the ball, but I was able to get them to the pocket and carry.
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
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quote:
Only if you take all your covers to 4000!
So I can put the pin on all my stuff 4" from pap, change all the covers to 4000 and pretty much get a different reaction on each one just because the coverstocks are different.
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TEAM HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
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You can have 4 balls with the same layout, at different surfaces and have 4 different reaction shapes.
That was not my plan with my arsenal, as I have different layouts, with similar surfaces, that provide different reactions.
Bottom line, the coverstock on the Widow is what makes it supperior to previous balls with the same core.
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quote:
quote:
Only if you take all your covers to 4000!
In case you didn't know, those are all the factory finishes.
Edited on 10/5/2007 7:56 AM
Indeed they are!
Ball companies just love that 4000 Abralon! Oh, remember the days when everything was 1500 grit - sanded or polished?
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Haywood
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I don't need a stupid
signature. This is enough.
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The cover is huge (and probably main) part of the BW and BWP's success in my opinion. In addition, I think that Hammer was tinkering and changing the core ever so slightly. I think they knew this core could be something great once they got it perfect. This is shown based on the fact that in the BW series the RG changed from 2.51 as it had been in all the versions previous this series, to 2.50. The diff. also has a lot to do with core. My guess is they were changing small, even un-seen things about this core. JMO.
Matt
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Hammer Pride Staff
http://www.hammerbowling.com
http://www.hammerstuff.com
"Nothing Hits Like A Hammer"
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quote:
You can have 4 balls with the same layout, at different surfaces and have 4 different reaction shapes.
......, as I have different layouts, with similar surfaces, that provide different reactions.
Then which is it ??? if different surfaces have different shapes then similar surfaces should have similar shapes. But then again, theres that pesky core layout.
Ok, lets say I have 3 Hammer Anger's. All are 3 3/8" pin to pap and same distance from grip center. Each one has a different surface prep. Your saying on the same oil pattern, I'll have one ball that is very long with not much backend, one that rolls very early with a smooth arc and one that rolls later with a more angular move....? I dont think so
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TEAM HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
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My original post in this thread was:
quote:
According to my driller, 80% of the ball reaction is due to the coverstock, not the core.
I don't know where the guy came up with 80%. I think his key point was, regardless of the layout, the ball I was buying was still going to be strong because of the coverstock. He was right. Despite putting the pin 5.5" from my PAP, the ball is still aggressive.
quote:
Ok, lets say I have 3 Hammer Anger's. All are 3 3/8" pin to pap and same distance from grip center. Each one has a different surface prep. Your saying on the same oil pattern, I'll have one ball that is very long with not much backend, one that rolls very early with a smooth arc and one that rolls later with a more angular move....? I dont think so
I don't understand your last post here...Are saying that changing the surface on these three identical balls, won't change the reaction? If so, your wrong.
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You will have 3 different reactions. The extent of those reactions will be in the line, hand but you will not have one that'll be big arc and one that'll be hard backend etc.
The percentage of cover might or might not be 70-80% but there will be a difference. Earlier/later will be the most a person will see. A huge change in arc vs snap backend, I don't think so, never seen it myself on balls that were laid out the same and different cover grits, just earlier/later but very similar rolls.
Just what I have seen, but, never had any say 360 vs 1000 vs 4000 either.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com
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quote:
I don't understand your last post here...Are saying that changing the surface on these three identical balls, won't change the reaction? If so, your wrong.
I do understand that the motion will change a little. Or how long it goes down lane before it reads. But people say that they can create a completely different shape just by altering the cover. I thinks that is wrong.
If I have 3 balls drilled identical to be very early rolling. I don't belive I can alter the surface to turn the ball into a skid/flip reaction. I can make it hold a bit longer or start up even sooner. But the ball will still flare the same and the pin will still want to migrate the same way resulting in very similar motion from foul line to pin deck.
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TEAM HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
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I agree it won't be a dramatic change. Just be earlier or later.
The same can be said for layouts. If you watch the NVS layout vids on www.ebonite.com, there isn't a huge difference between those ball reactions.
It doesn't take much to make a difference, with surface or layout.
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I have 2 Raw Hammer Anger's drilled exactly the same. One is polished and the other is OOB at 2000 grit. The Polished Anger is longer and bit more snap on the back end compared to the OOB Anger.
Coverstock is the most important part of the balls reaction. Of course, layouts do have some influence but not to the degree that the coverstock has.
This is a interesting topic. There's many different approaches to arsenals. Which would you rather have.
1. 3 different layouts on 3 different balls with the same cover grit?
OR
2. 3 of the same ball with the same layout on each but with different cover grits?
I would choose #2 which is the direction my arsenal is going right now. I'm adding a 3rd Anger and putting the same exact layout on it as my other two Anger's have but changing the cover on this one to 500 grit.
I feel if a bowler finds a ball that really works well for their game it's wise to buy another and change the cover. The two Anger's I have work very well together.
I also feel that if a bowler finds a layout that really works well for them, then why not use it on all their equipment? Just drill all their bowling balls with the same exact layout and let the covers and cores separate the reactions.
I can take 3 Anger's, drill them exactly the same but change the coverstock's and cover just about everything except for really dry lanes.
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Bears are Super Bowl bound!
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I still find it difficult to beleive that you can take an Anger, drill it 3 3/8 PtoP and make it skid/flip. I dont care how much polish is on it.
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TEAM HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
Edited on 10/8/2007 10:08 PM
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quote:
I still find it difficult to beleive that you can take an Anger, drill it 3 3/8 PtoP and make it skid/flip. I dont care how much polish is on it.
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TEAM HammerHead
2008 USBC Nationals
ABQ, NM
Edited on 10/8/2007 10:08 PM
Both of my Angers are drilled 3 3/8" from pap, CG stacked with a balance hole 5" right of grip center on my mid-line. One of them is 2000 grit box condition and the other is 4000 grit and polished.
I don't understand your comment about skid/flip? My polished Anger is about 7 to 10 boards weaker than the OOB Anger. The polish (factory finish) gives it a lot more length than box condition.
A bowler does not need a long pin to pap distance to bowl on light or short oil. They need the right coverstock and or grit.
Take a plastic ball and put a strong layout on it. Then use it on oil and see how much it hooks. The layout is not going to mean squat on that ball becuase of the cover.
You know this also goes the other way. Take 3 Angers and place the pin 5.5" from pap and no balance hole. Then have one polished, one box and the other 500 grit. I garuntee then 500 grit Anger can be used on long oil and work great. The coverstock is what's going to make the biggest difference not the layout.
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Bears are Super Bowl bound!
Edited on 10/8/2007 10:37 PM