Author Topic: is this correct about the NO MERCY? (Read 4011 times)

chitown · « **on:** October 31, 2006, 01:33:19 AM »

The NO MERCY is more than just an asymmetrical ball without it's MB marking on it. It also more than just an asymmetrical ball with a HART marking 5" left of where the MB should have been stamped.

If the NO MERCY was just an asymmetrical ball with a stamp left of where the MB really is then the CG would be off set big time.

I have a BW that has the CG off set to the right. To the right of the line drawn from the PIN/MB. I wanted to put the MB 2" right of my thumb. Well this required a balance hole because the CG pushed the statics beyond the legal limit.

Now let's say the BW'S mb WAS SCRATCHED OFF. Then we marked a HART 4" left of the MB. This would then look similar to the #1 layout on the NO MERCY drill sheet. Except it would still require a balance hole because of the CG.

So they not only marked a different location on the NO MERCY but the CG has been changed as well.

Let me know if i'm wrong about this?
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GO BEARS! Super Bowl bound!

Traumatize · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2006, 09:48:00 AM »

I believe you are thinking too deep Chitown. The CG will be the marked spot as well as the pin. I don't think there is a set distance from the Hart marking and the real MB. I think every ball will differ and the only way to tell is a Deterimator. If I were to drill one, I would have it spun on the Determinator and use the real MB to drill is like any other asymetrical. I for one am not araid of using weight holes. I lay out my asymetrics using pin distance and MB distance/angle, and if it needs a hole so be it. This Hart core is a good idea, as long as they can keep the top weights low on the balls. With top weights in the 2.5 oz. range or lower, you won't have to worry about a weight hole. Just drilling the seperate fingers deeper will suffice in traking out positive or negative side weight.
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Buffalo bowlers are the best all around in the country.

AMF Thruway Lanes Pro Shop employee, and I have no problem saying that I'm Officially a Ball Junkie.

shelley · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2006, 09:55:14 AM »

The core seems designed in such a way that the CG is always on or near the line from the pin to the HART. But the PSA, what most other companies would call the MB (and mark as the MB) is 90* away from the HART.

Yes, basically the core is made so that the CG is always very far off the normal pin-MB line. Far off enough that the thing can be drilled "label" while still putting the true MB in the strong or VAL position.

What happens for lefties? The PSA is an axis that goes all the way through the ball and comes out the other side. The effect is the same, the HART is 90* from both the righty's normal MB marker and the lefty's normal MB marker (err, where those would be).

All MB balls are like that, you could turn them 180* and lay them out, but it would put the CG in a weird spot since it's normally in line with the marked pin-MB. Err, you could end up with a slightly different reaction characteristic because you'd be removing mass from a different part of the core (think Visionary's AMB), but on a core like the Zone's it would be the same (minus the CG stuff).

SH

chitown · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:18:22 PM »

Thanks for the input. I am not afraid of using x-hols but don't really like them.

I know on normal asymmetrical balls one will find all kinds of different cg off sets. That's what I like to call them. With my BW it would have been nice to have the cg off set to the left instead of the right. This would have allowed me to put the MB in the same position but without the need for an x-hole.

I really think this No Mercy ball is coming about because of the USBC thinking that there stupid proposed rules will affect scoring. They are taking the wrong approach. Ok let's say they implement the 1" rule and no balance holes. All a bowler needs to do is be more selective with there equipment. In my case I would just look for cg's off set to the left. This way I could put the MB where ever I choose and not need to worry about the 1" rule.

Thanks again for the info.
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GO BEARS! Super Bowl bound!

Noy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:24:09 PM »

This is exactly why I havent bought the ball yet. Im a lefty that can't visualize how the ball would work the same for a lefty. Whem companies mark the MB of a ball, why do they mark it in that spot? Is a MB marked in a certain spot due to the physical characteristics of the ball? From what people have been telling me about the No Mercy, it seems to have a variable MB, meaning, if it has a MB 5" right of the HART for righties, then it also has a MB 5" left of the HART for lefties.

Im thinking of putting the ball on the DeTerminator on friday at the shop to see how the ball rolls in both lefty and righty positions.
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Bowling Since March 2006 - "Get coaching, don't worry about it"...blah blah balh...Just answer the questions please

Arsenal:
Track Mean Machine
Hammer Black Widow
Track Equation
Track Heat Blast
Storm Spare Ball

jls · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:25:13 PM »

chi town the bears won, rex looked good.

now relax and just do what the box says.
"TRUST US'

it works!!!!!!!
the ball hooks and hooks and just keeps going. a little more length then the infinite one with all the hook one needs in real oil.

drilled up 4 so far, and they all said the same thing. great ball for the first game. actually, just heard from one guy who said he used it the first 2 games last nite, then switched to the jolt.

i think that may be a record, 2 games!!!!!

and i think the plastic bag has a nice touch to it. much better then those yellow stickers.
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jls31316

shelley · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2006, 01:28:05 PM »

quote:
All a bowler needs to do is be more selective with there equipment. In my case I would just look for cg's off set to the left. This way I could put the MB where ever I choose and not need to worry about the 1" rule.

The only problem with that idea (not that it's a bad one) is that the supply of appropriate balls would dwindle pretty quickly. Everyone would start looking for asymmetric equipment with the CG offset to the left (since there are more righties). Manufacturers could purposefully start making more balls like that to compensate, and we'd probably see a lot more asyms from every company.

SH

chitown · « **Reply #7 on:** October 31, 2006, 10:25:51 PM »

quote:
This is exactly why I havent bought the ball yet. Im a lefty that can't visualize how the ball would work the same for a lefty. Whem companies mark the MB of a ball, why do they mark it in that spot? Is a MB marked in a certain spot due to the physical characteristics of the ball? From what people have been telling me about the No Mercy, it seems to have a variable MB, meaning, if it has a MB 5" right of the HART for righties, then it also has a MB 5" left of the HART for lefties.

Im thinking of putting the ball on the DeTerminator on friday at the shop to see how the ball rolls in both lefty and righty positions.
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Bowling Since March 2006 - "Get coaching, don't worry about it"...blah blah balh...Just answer the questions please

Arsenal:
Track Mean Machine
Hammer Black Widow
Track Equation
Track Heat Blast
Storm Spare Ball

Bud don't worry about this ball. Just do what Hammer suggests. That's what i'm doing when mine arrives. I got caught up in wondering how this ball works myself but Ron in another post explained it pretty well.

I have been told by a good friend that some of his buddy's had great results from the No Mercy. This ball is the real deal for sure! Sorry for the pun.

I can't wait for mine to arrive!
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GO BEARS! Super Bowl bound!

BallsDeep · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2006, 09:53:08 AM »

quote:
quote:
All a bowler needs to do is be more selective with there equipment. In my case I would just look for cg's off set to the left. This way I could put the MB where ever I choose and not need to worry about the 1" rule.

The only problem with that idea (not that it's a bad one) is that the supply of appropriate balls would dwindle pretty quickly. Everyone would start looking for asymmetric equipment with the CG offset to the left (since there are more righties). Manufacturers could purposefully start making more balls like that to compensate, and we'd probably see a lot more asyms from every company.

SH

Kind of in keeping with this, I have heard of some pros in the past that have specially asked for balls where the cg is offset from the mass bias. Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that some of the pro pins from storm did just this. Most of them, ot my knwledge jst had really long pins, but I think there were also some with the cg offset to one side.

I'm still not fully clear about the No Mercy however, is this it? They just created a ball where consistently the cg would be well offset from the mb. In an earlier post on this thread you said that the HART is not thir name for the mb, that the HART is 90 degres from the mb. What then is the HART? Is this just some arbitrary marking? I'll have to read about this a bit further, but it seems a bit odd.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]

Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

shelley · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2006, 10:34:34 AM »

quote:
Kind of in keeping with this, I have heard of some pros in the past that have specially asked for balls where the cg is offset from the mass bias. Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that some of the pro pins from storm did just this. Most of them, ot my knwledge jst had really long pins, but I think there were also some with the cg offset to one side.

That's the difference between "pro-pin" and "pro-CG" balls from Storm. Pro-pins are long (or, I guess, short) and have possibly wonky TW. Pro-CG balls have the CG offset sufficiently from the pin-MB line. Might be an otherwise normal pin length and top weight, though.

quote:
What then is the HART? Is this just some arbitrary marking?

It's not arbitrary, it's specifically 90* from the true MB (crosses fingers, waiting to hear about the deTerminator results). It just doesn't really mean anything special in the usual asym drilling methods.

SH

BallsDeep · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2006, 01:19:11 PM »

quote:
quote:
Kind of in keeping with this, I have heard of some pros in the past that have specially asked for balls where the cg is offset from the mass bias. Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that some of the pro pins from storm did just this. Most of them, ot my knwledge jst had really long pins, but I think there were also some with the cg offset to one side.

That's the difference between "pro-pin" and "pro-CG" balls from Storm. Pro-pins are long (or, I guess, short) and have possibly wonky TW. Pro-CG balls have the CG offset sufficiently from the pin-MB line. Might be an otherwise normal pin length and top weight, though.

quote:
What then is the HART? Is this just some arbitrary marking?

It's not arbitrary, it's specifically 90* from the true MB (crosses fingers, waiting to hear about the deTerminator results). It just doesn't really mean anything special in the usual asym drilling methods.

SH

Thanks. That definatly makes sense, that they woud have to have two separate names for long pins and cg off set balls. i haven't heard the term pro cg as pro pin's seem to be more widespread, but it definatly makes sense.

I think I understand about the HART. Looking at the drilling instructions for the no mercy, it seems as though they have just found a way to consistently have the cg offset from the psa. So that if one drew a line from the pin through the cg, 1/4 the circumference of the ball they would arrive at the HART or a point 90 degrees from the preferential spin axis (I know that the HART is not measured this way, that its measured 90 from the psa, similarly on mb balls the mb cannot be accuratly found by drawing a line from the pin through the cg). Since they use 90 degrees from the PSA as the location of the HART, they don't have to have right and left handed balls, or separate drilling instructions for right and left handers, as the preferential spin axis, is an axis that extends through the ball, and thus the HART is equi distant from both points where the PSA reaches the cover.

If what I have said is correct, then the point of the core is to have the cg offset from the psa. Therefor people can have the psa in a strong position without requiring a weight hole, or the cg to be more than 1" from the cog, two proposals from the usbc to regulate equipment. Its still pretty cool, and it does have a point. If the changes don't go through then there can be a different tuning process to the core with t-holes.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]

Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

BrooklynSlop · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2006, 01:59:05 PM »

You guys have the distance from the Heart and the MB incorrect. The distance is approximately 6 3/4", NOT 5". Just FYI.

This comes straight from a regional Hammer Rep.
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"Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong."

BallsDeep · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2006, 04:57:12 PM »

The distance from the mb to the HART is 1/4 the circumference of a ball, so yeah it is 6 3/4" as a ball is 27" inches around.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]

Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

just joe · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2006, 05:37:07 PM »

Currently have a No Mercy. When drawing a line through the pin and heart, the cg appears approx. 2 inches to the left. How would you drill this ball for a right hander, putting the heart near the track. cg postion would be well past 1 oz. negative. Is the stamped circle the cg position?

.........pin..........
..cg..................
.........hrt..........

chitown · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2006, 05:54:32 PM »

quote:
Currently have a No Mercy. When drawing a line through the pin and heart, the cg appears approx. 2 inches to the left. How would you drill this ball for a right hander, putting the heart near the track. cg postion would be well past 1 oz. negative. Is the stamped circle the cg position?

.........pin..........
..cg..................
.........hrt..........

How much top weight does the ball have? How far of a pin distance do you want from your pap?

Let me know this? I'm sure it can be done without requiring a balance hole.
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GO BEARS! Super Bowl bound!

Author Topic: is this correct about the NO MERCY? (Read 4011 times)

chitown

is this correct about the NO MERCY?

Traumatize

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

shelley

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

chitown

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

Noy

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

jls

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

shelley

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

chitown

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

BallsDeep

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

shelley

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

BallsDeep

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

BrooklynSlop

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

BallsDeep

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

just joe

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?

chitown

Re: is this correct about the NO MERCY?