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Author Topic: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns  (Read 7572 times)

ignitebowling

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Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« on: December 29, 2021, 10:06:49 AM »
Fun comparison video of old vs new.

Filmed on Christmas Eve as the bowling center was closing. Was able to get in two quick games to put this together. Condition was the left over house shot.
Part 2 will be next week and have some more video to compare each on a fresh condition.

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TWOHAND834

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Re: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2021, 12:36:50 PM »
While this is a cool comparison, there are some obvious questions.

1.  Do you have the surface the same on all 3 ?  I believe abralon did not exist back in 1997 and back then, a lot of high end stuff came at around 600 grit from the factory.  If you took that Fugitive to 500 or the 3D all the way up to 2000; it would possibly out hook that 3D by a decent amount. 

2.  Core technology from a symmetric standpoint is not that different in reality.  While core shapes have changed over the years; a 2.55 RG is still 2.55 and 2.48 is still 2.48.  The difference in core tech is more on the asymmetric side.  While the 3D and 503C are asyms, as you mentioned, the intermediate diff is so low they are still considered symmetric.  So the biggest difference has to come in the form of coverstock technology. 

3.  With your lower rev rate; you wont see as big a difference as someone with a 500 rev rate.  Secondly, even on the broken down house shot; you are still relying on the driest part of the lane to do the comparison which will bring the ball reactions closer together. 

To make this a true comparison; bring all those balls with the surfaces at a level like 2000 and throw them on a fresher condition.  I am looking forward to part 2 though and see what it shows.

Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

ignitebowling

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Re: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2021, 01:13:12 PM »
(1) 3D Offset was de-oiled and resurfaced to 800/3000 when purchased earlier this season. The ball had about 6 games on it when this video was shot. The other two balls also had about 6 games each and were box finish prior to the 6 games they were used.

When looking at all three prior to this video surface wise they looked similar in terms of use. One did not seem noticeably duller or shiny so to speak just by looking at them. That is what we had to start with on this video.

Part two all three were then touched up with fresh 3000 on the spinner and thrown on a fresh house shot at the same center. The friction is more defined on the fresh condition with more overall hook compared to this video.

If I can get a center to put out a sport shot I will add a third video on it.

(2) The 3D Offset int diff is low but other options at the time like the Phantom I believe were higher. Shortly afterwards when you get into the early 2000s int diffs on average where higher then most today. Eventually manufactures figured out more wasn't more on int diff for ball reaction.

(3) Higher rev rate shows bigger differences in anything. Slower ball speed can also show bigger differences. For this comparison videos its going to be 400rpms unless I take my thumb out...then its would be 220 rpms lol

Hopefully I can get a sport condition put out somewhere to do a third video. Especially when comparing the 2011 vs 2020 differences.

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TWOHAND834

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Re: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2021, 06:49:55 AM »
(1) 3D Offset was de-oiled and resurfaced to 800/3000 when purchased earlier this season. The ball had about 6 games on it when this video was shot. The other two balls also had about 6 games each and were box finish prior to the 6 games they were used.

When looking at all three prior to this video surface wise they looked similar in terms of use. One did not seem noticeably duller or shiny so to speak just by looking at them. That is what we had to start with on this video.

Part two all three were then touched up with fresh 3000 on the spinner and thrown on a fresh house shot at the same center. The friction is more defined on the fresh condition with more overall hook compared to this video.

If I can get a center to put out a sport shot I will add a third video on it.

(2) The 3D Offset int diff is low but other options at the time like the Phantom I believe were higher. Shortly afterwards when you get into the early 2000s int diffs on average where higher then most today. Eventually manufactures figured out more wasn't more on int diff for ball reaction.

(3) Higher rev rate shows bigger differences in anything. Slower ball speed can also show bigger differences. For this comparison videos its going to be 400rpms unless I take my thumb out...then its would be 220 rpms lol

Hopefully I can get a sport condition put out somewhere to do a third video. Especially when comparing the 2011 vs 2020 differences.



I like it.  Think it is pretty cool with the comparison videos and looking forward to the next one.
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

billdozer

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Re: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2021, 02:14:22 PM »
U had me intrigued with the offset and 503c due to the cavities in the cores being offset....

Lost me with the fugitive lightbulb core.

Cool comparison, I think you could make it more interesting by taking it a step further on different patterns, as they look the same or similar to me on the THS.
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ignitebowling

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Re: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2021, 11:39:49 PM »
U had me intrigued with the offset and 503c due to the cavities in the cores being offset....

Lost me with the fugitive lightbulb core.

Cool comparison, I think you could make it more interesting by taking it a step further on different patterns, as they look the same or similar to me on the THS.

Hopefully I have a place to put out a pattern for a third video.

One thing people over look with the house shot comparisons is thats what the majority of bowlers see week to week.  Most purchases are based off videos comparing new releases on those same house conditions.

Still the flatter condition with more volume to have for part of the comparison would be great.
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Strider

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Re: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2021, 09:09:58 AM »
It's not so much about the volumes, it's that there's no free hook to the outside (discounting some of the very short patterns) that make every ball look at least good on a house shot.  Finding out when and how a ball shapes without free hook is what really separates them (assuming similar cover stock strength).  I understand most people use and want to see house shot videos, but they aren't nearly as useful.

billdozer

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Re: Old vs new. 1997 vs 2011 vs 2020 Hammer 3D Offset returns
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2022, 10:33:38 PM »
U had me intrigued with the offset and 503c due to the cavities in the cores being offset....

Lost me with the fugitive lightbulb core.

Cool comparison, I think you could make it more interesting by taking it a step further on different patterns, as they look the same or similar to me on the THS.

Hopefully I have a place to put out a pattern for a third video.

One thing people over look with the house shot comparisons is thats what the majority of bowlers see week to week.  Most purchases are based off videos comparing new releases on those same house conditions.

Still the flatter condition with more volume to have for part of the comparison would be great.

I'll always tune in to your vids as I know your style, and the format is consistent. Keep it up.
In the bag [Infinite Physix, Volatility Torque, Night Road, Phaze III, Burner Solid, Hustle AU]
*Now Testing* IQ Ruby, Renevant, another IQ Tour solid
Coming soon...???