Post by: Nicanor on October 12, 2008, 05:02:53 AM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Juggernaut on October 12, 2008, 01:08:19 PM
Then, he started asking silly little questions like "Do the lanes seem slick to you tonight?" or "I wonder if they've changed the shot lately?". I got to watching him and it was plain to see that the ball reaction had changed from a hard charging finish to a weaker, "almost" type of finish.
I mentioned this to him and told him to have the ball "rejuvenated" and refinished. He claimed he did, but it was never like it was brand new OOB.
He got rid of it.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Post by: 302efi on October 12, 2008, 01:13:01 PM
Pretty good way to stay in business, huh ?
Sell balls that die quick...
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: agroves on October 12, 2008, 01:17:24 PM
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• Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
• Women somehow deteriorate during the night.
Post by: azguy on October 12, 2008, 01:19:16 PM
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
Post by: Nicanor on October 12, 2008, 01:46:16 PM
So say what you want, but I bet if you're honest you will tell us you had to move right for RH and left for LH if you use the ball in oil for any period of time.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: azguy on October 12, 2008, 01:53:02 PM
Mine, just to humor you, I move very little, but then we probably don't have the same style or oil, I don't know about your conditions.
Sorry I just commented on your post, I sure won't do that any more. Have a Good Weekend.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
Post by: Gunny on October 12, 2008, 01:58:51 PM
Post by: SleepOnIce on October 12, 2008, 02:00:34 PM
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BLARGH
Post by: Nicanor on October 12, 2008, 02:04:51 PM
Sorry if my response to your post soured you to reading or responding to my posts. It was not my intent. I read, though do not respond to many of your post. I know that we all have different bowling styles and knowledge, but whats good about Ballreviews is that we can state our opinion, agree or disagree and move on like the big boys we are.
After bowling for a couple of years with Pchee2, I know how one bowler can swing the lane with a starter ball and the other bowlers can't swing half the lane. I've seen Pchee2 swing the ball coast to coast of soome fried lanes, then throw a frozen rope down the 10 board and just kill the pins on the same lanes. I'm more of a visual bowler. I try to see the balls path. So when I throw a ball from week to week (I also keep my bowling balls very clean)and I can see the ball losing reaction and having to move further right until I don't like the balls path anymore and change bowling balls.
So let others have their opinion and by all means keep yours, but let me have mine.
Thanks,
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 10/12/2008 2:06 PM
Post by: rockerbowler18 on October 12, 2008, 02:28:03 PM
That ball died within 30 games. I'm going to drill it to roll earlier, but I already had it on a pretty strong layout.
I keep it sanded just to get it to move. Definitely a downer. That ball died so fast, when it was one of the greatest I owned to start with. Now, I don't ever throw it but once a month.
Glad to hear I'm making the right choice by not having one, although a huge part of me still wants to try it out.
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Righty
High rev rate (400-450 rpm)
Semi-high speed (16-17 mph)
Book average: 193 (current 245)
For a game based on the principles of science and math, bowling sure does have a bad habit of being illogical.
“Every person is a God in embryo. Its only desire is to be born.†- Deepak Chopra
“The possibility of stepping into a higher plane is quite real for everyone. It requires no force or effort or sacrifice. It involves little more than changing our ideas about what is normal.â€
- Deepak Chopra
Post by: The Bowlers Edge 2 on October 12, 2008, 02:38:36 PM
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The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
Post by: Nicanor on October 12, 2008, 02:45:54 PM
I see why professional bowlers change bowling balls so much. I know that they change sometimes just for the minutest (sp) amount of pin/cg or mb changes. But they also change to keep the same ball reaction. Consistant ball reaction is critical when your at that level but I can't afford to change bowling balls every 30-40 games. If I could though, I would have a truck load of Bites because when it was relatively new, it carried the house and was extremely versatile.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 10/12/2008 2:46 PM
Post by: BubbaRay on October 12, 2008, 08:48:29 PM
There are two types of plasticizers used in balls, those that are free to migrate and those that are in fixed position. The majority of those that are free to migrate are pretty much out of the ball after 30 - 50 games. Those that are fixed cannot migrate unless the ball chemistry begins to degrade possibly from heat or chemistries used on the ball. The fixed ones have some effect on the performance of the ball until the surface of the ball is contaminated with grime. What rejuvenator or hot water treatments do is to force the lane oil out of the ball that has been absorbed into the coverstock via the pores in the coverstock. When the pores in the ball become saturated with lane oil you have what is called "ball death". The oil inhibits the ball's coverstock ability to grip the lane. When these balls are left to set for long periods, what happens is that the oil leaves the surface of the ball either by evaporation or by migrating deeper into the balls core. This leave the pores in a condition where they are again able to absorb oil as when the ball was new and allow the coverstock to better grip the lane surface. A resurfacing of the ball to eliminate surface grime at the same time will bring the ball performance almost back to original. I say almost because over time the chemistry of the ball cover will change and ever so gradually loose its original coeficient of friction properties. Also, over time and use, the pores will eventually become permanently plugged. The onslaught of ball death is governed by how porous the cover is, how much oil the ball encounters in use, how well the ball surface is wiped free of oil, and how frequently the ball is cleaned immediately after use. Oil removal procedures will also have an effect.
Keep a vigorus cleaning regeme and you will not experience this problem with reaction.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Hammer Team Member
Hammer Message Board Moderator
www.hammerbowling.com
www.hammerstuff.com
Edited on 10/12/2008 8:50 PM
Post by: Nicanor on October 12, 2008, 09:15:11 PM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 10/12/2008 9:15 PM
Post by: Strider on October 12, 2008, 09:26:50 PM
I'll not bother to bump the topic since few would stay on topic, but it sums up my feelings about covers poured by Ebonite. Some are great, some not as much so. Again, this is how I feel, I don't have any proof. BTW, I haven't used my Bite since my summer PBA league, but it was still going strong (well, as strong as it ever was when new) when I last used it.
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: Juggernaut on October 12, 2008, 09:39:37 PM
He really likes hammer stuff and said that the bite was the only hammer he ever had any problem with, but his did die while nothing else in his bag did, and he does the same maintenance on all of his stuff.
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Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Post by: Joe Jr on October 12, 2008, 09:46:46 PM
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My Vid (http://"http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/RevLefty/Vids/?action=view¤t=08.flv")
Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium
Post by: Fatboy8 on October 12, 2008, 09:55:46 PM
My stuff is cleaned before it goes back in the locker. My BW Solid, Bite, etc. have had NO loss of reaction.
Just my .2 experience.
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Nothing Hit's Like A Hammer
Post by: Nicanor on October 12, 2008, 10:30:47 PM
I don't know why some bowlers don't experience the problems with the ball death, but I know we use to have the same discussion with Columbia bowling balls a few years back. Even then we had those who truly believed in the ball death syndrome and those who never had a problem. I can't talk about others experience, only mine and I believe the Ebonite took the place of the Columbia ball death syndrome.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 10/12/2008 10:35 PM
Post by: themagician on October 12, 2008, 10:39:38 PM
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http://www.absolutebowling.com
Post by: SleepOnIce on October 13, 2008, 02:09:20 AM
I've had my No Mercy for over a year now and I've only put it through the Hook Again chamber once and it still hooks a decent amount on the backend whenever I throw the ball. However, in the 8 months I've had my Bite, I've had it resurfaced 3-4 times, put through the Hook Again 4-5 times all because of a notable decline in backend after say 40-45 games. Probably due to the more aggressive coverstock, but for the average bowler, this kind of maintenance can not be logically expected for a decent period of time. I like my Bite, but if my best friend asked me if he should get one, I'd tell him to get a different ball that doesn't require so much upkeep.
Sorry for whatever that says, I'm not reading it.
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BLARGH
Edited on 10/13/2008 2:35 AM
Post by: Gazoo on October 13, 2008, 07:21:47 AM
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"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"
Edited on 10/13/2008 8:01 AM
Post by: Steven on October 13, 2008, 10:48:36 AM
I'm curious what maintenance regime you used:
1) Did you clean the ball after each set, and if so, what cleaner did you use?
2) Did you attempt any rejuvenation? (Revivor oven, hot water bath)
3) Did you attempt to resurface, bringing the surface up to 4000 Abralon?
Your input would be appreciated.
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on October 13, 2008, 12:25:04 PM
If you think about anything you buy new, it's always better than it would be after use.
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: Nicanor on October 13, 2008, 02:59:49 PM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Steven on October 13, 2008, 03:05:24 PM
Post by: Nicanor on October 13, 2008, 03:25:23 PM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Steven on October 13, 2008, 03:54:22 PM
I'd get it rejuvenated at the proshop and see if it makes any difference. No matter how much you clean it (even right away), it still gets saturated. I put my Dirty Bomb in the revivor oven over the weekend, and I couldn't believe how slimy the ball quickly got.
I have the Bite because I won it (using a Lane#1 ball
) and I am impressed with the backend. But I'm getting wary of all these accounts of Hammer/Ebonite drastically reduced reaction after relatively short usage. I don't need that in equipment.
Post by: dechrist on October 13, 2008, 04:01:47 PM
You might want to give something like that a try.
Edited on 10/13/2008 4:13 PM
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on October 14, 2008, 10:46:48 AM
The Pearl seemed to lose something very quickly, so I cleaned it, and still reacted the same, so I knocked the polish off and that made a huge difference.
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: Nicanor on October 14, 2008, 10:53:57 AM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Steven on October 14, 2008, 11:06:00 AM
Remember, the Widow cover is very porous and absorbs oil quickly. You don't get that classic Bite reaction for nothing. Try taking the cover down to 360, bake the ball in a Revivor (more effective than soaking), and then bring the cover back up to 4000.
If the ball still doesn't react, you have a valid gripe.
Post by: Nicanor on October 14, 2008, 01:18:20 PM
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Steven on October 14, 2008, 01:28:03 PM
Maybe yours is truly dead, but it would be a service to all of us if you could try to revive it before giving up on it.
Post by: chatnboy on October 15, 2008, 06:51:54 PM
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Go Hard or Go Home!!!Bowl Your Best...ALWAYS!!!
Post by: chitown on October 16, 2008, 08:38:47 AM
All bowling balls absorb oil. Ebonite/hammer covers tend to absorb oil quicker than the other companies equipment. However, it's easy to xtract oil from the coverstock using the hot water bath method or a revivor. These methods for xtracting oil from bowling balls coverstocks are proving to work very well.
If you haven't tried to xtract oil from the coverstock then that's the first thing I would do. Bowling balls cleaners are a waste of money. Bowling ball cleaners DO NOT xtract oil from the coverstock. So cleaning the ball with ball cleaner is not going to yield you the results your looking for. Try the hot water bath or revivor method of xtracting oil from the cover.
I'm willing to bet your BITE will act just like new once you xtract the oil from the cover.
I've owned a lot of Hammer bowling balls over the last few years. I've never had a single ball DIE on me. I've had them lose that OOB reaction but have always been able to xtract the oil and get that reaction back.
It's really not that hard to place the ball into a bucket and set it under my bath tub faucet and turn the water on. Wait 20 min, shut the water off, remove the ball and wipe it with a towel. That's it! Ball is like new!
I would repeat the hot water bath every 50 games on the BITE. This will keep the ball reacting like new all the time. Most of the Hammer balls only need a hot water bath every 100 games or so. The NO MERCY was the only ball that really lost it's reaction quick and needed the hot water bath after every 50 games. I now just use the hot water bath on all my equipment once they hit the 50 game mark.
Post by: FRT Racing on October 18, 2008, 09:15:54 PM
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Francisco Rivera
Black Widow's package....
Post by: charlest on October 19, 2008, 12:09:24 AM
quote:
Thank you Steven. It was such a great ball before it lost its reaction that I will attempt to rejuvenate it before giving up.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Any luck with it, Barry??
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Nicanor on October 19, 2008, 10:19:09 AM
Been in and out of the hospital and doctors office a lot since my motorcycle accident September 1st. I'll do it this weekend and try it on Tuesday. I would really like to get the Bite back in my arsenal.
Thank for all your replies.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: charlest on October 19, 2008, 10:40:02 AM
quote:
Charlest,
Been in and out of the hospital and doctors office a lot since my motorcycle accident September 1st. I'll do it this weekend and try it on Tuesday. I would really like to get the Bite back in my arsenal.
Thank for all your replies.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: anotherwindup on October 19, 2008, 04:54:49 PM
This "ball death" is the MAIN reason I put every ball I drill on the ball spinner and "break" the cover. What I mean is if I want the ball polished and it comes polished out of the box, I will still hit the cover with an abralon pad and then apply the factory finish myself. If I want it dull....I hit the surface with the abralon to the grit I desire.
I have had a ton of success doing this...I started this when I realized I could NEVER replicate the OOB finish and reaction after 30 games or so, when I cleaned / freshened my equipment. Now, I can replicate every cover stock and reaction that I get from freshly punched equipment.
I suggest everyone do this, but I KNOW many people don't want to hit the surface of a BRAND NEW BALL......buy you users choose....I know what I will continue to do!!
Good luck with all of your HAMMERS!!
I truly don't believe that this is isolated to EBONITE/HAMMER as many would like us to believe...but I will never know, as I will never throw another piece other then ones that come from Hopkinsville, KY!!
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Jason Jenkins
Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"
http://www.hammerbowling.com/hammertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2
Post by: cheech on October 20, 2008, 09:04:17 AM
-i dont know i have a high track, and a rev dominate lefty with a high track and my SR300 and blue vibe are still going strong. the SR300 has at least 2500 games on it with the GB 10.7 cover. i just kept it clean and rejuvenated it when i had to and it lasts. i have have had mine for 2 full seasons and this is its third but its pretty much dead now. the blue vibe has 800+ games on it and i just did the same thing. clean it, putthe polish back on when it wears off to close any little pores and rejuvenate when neccessary. basic bowling ball care.
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HG:300x2(SR300 both)289(sawblade)280(SR300)
HS:792(SR300)778(SR300)778(SR300/Dr.Jekyll)
bowling for 14years
18 years old
2004 NYSPHSAA team champions
2007 NYSPHSAA individual high game(300) and series(1411-6 games)
current arsenal:
rival, arch rival, dead flush,scout,
blue vibe
SR300, RXS300 maxim
on the way maybe.....the sauce, momentum swing,resurgence, or demension.
p.s. go leftys
Post by: mainzer on October 20, 2008, 09:08:18 AM
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MainzerPower
Post by: Strider on October 20, 2008, 09:18:34 PM
quote:
the SR300 has at least 2500 games on it with the GB 10.7 cover. i just kept it clean and rejuvenated it when i had to and it lasts. i have have had mine for 2 full seasons and this is its third but its pretty much dead now.
Not to hijack, but 2500 games over two seasons is 24 games a week, every week, with just that ball, let alone other games thrown with other balls. Either that's a gross overstatement, or you throw more games than 99.9% of all bowlers. I have a ball with over 1500 games on it, but that's over 5+ years.
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: tizzle on October 20, 2008, 09:28:06 PM
Post by: Peigh101 on October 22, 2008, 04:07:09 PM
for carry down that I face in mixed leagues .I average 230 and I get it out of
the bag when the game breaker stops turning the corner. The ball shows no sign
of death. I take it home after league ,clean it with 409 then use abrolon 2000
on a spinner. It is ready to go again.