Why buy either one of these when you can get a great ball from LM or Visionary? Those balls last forever and the balls you mentioned are to high mantainence... Im a big believer on quality bowling balls and these two companys are #1 in that Department... They put so much money and time into each ball, with some of them having 11 lbs. of coverstock. I just think thats great. Just my .02 cents of course, John