BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Hammer => Topic started by: charlest on March 24, 2013, 07:04:50 PM
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Over the past couple of years there have been many Hammer fans wondering how to replace their Blue or their Onyx Vibes. I am one who thinks Hammer is making a major marketing mistake by continuing to develop and market stronger and stronger PEARLIZED vibes, instead of bringing out either a direct Onyx or Blue replacement, a solid resin coverstock, or an upgraded one. Of course, even in today's environment an Onyx Vibe would still handle true medium oil.
C'mon, Hammer, instead of playing marketing games, do some minimal research (Heck, I've already done it for you!!) and bring out a decent medium oil, solid coverstock with the great Vibe core.
You have nothing to lose and possibly millions (of dollars, yens, euros?) to gain.
People are already and still willing to pay $250 for a new Blue Vibe on Ebay. Sell them yourselves and make thousands of Hammer fans happy. (With a small profit margin for yourself!)
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And the only "new" aspect would be a cover stock since the vibe core is amazing and doesn't need to be changed in the slightest.
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They did a second run of Blue Vibes back in 2009-2010 season through select distributors. It didn't go too well. These types of "diamond in the rough" balls are a tournament/competitive players dream. The problem lies in the majority of the tournament player/competitive bowlers being the cheapest when it comes to purchasing equipment. Because they buy so much, they will usually skip the local pro shop's pricing in favor of the buddies and other online distributors. Due to the majority of these players being involved with websites such as a ballreviews.com, we tend to get a different take on what bowlers are really purchasing and what they really like.
The majority of these "re-releases" never go over too well with the average league player who wants a new ball because the first thing they say when you make the suggestion (even when it's absolutely what they need) is, "Isn't that an old ball? What about the ___ I don't want an old ball." Now if they re-release these as a buddies pro shop or bowlingball.com exclusive, I can see a short run getting sold pretty quickly. For the most part it's hard to get re-releases, no matter how popular the ball was the first run, to get to be big sellers again. That's why we see so many remakes under a different name/color. It's the only way to resell that great reaction to all types of bowlers.
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I understand about ballreviews.com being a limited market and we being sort of a different base of clientele, but as I mentioned, when I see an Ebay or three going for unexpectedly high prices, I think there's a 2nd set of people who are also interested.
I rarely if ever say any manufacturer should ever do a re-run of balls, no matter what I think of them. But in this case, I would even buy one. Heck, if they want a different color and a different coverstock, that's fine by me. They've put out such strong pearl coverstocks, I think both BJI and BTM agreed that the Grape and the Cobalt could easily cover true medium oil.
No one can disagree that once the Cherry Vibe was discontinued, the Emerald, then Midnight, then the Grape and now the Cobalt were all longer and stronger in the backend than the previous one. For many people the Grape and the Cobalt were almost uncontrollable. Not everyone, of course. It's too bizarre; not everyone has 20 mph ball speed and 5 revs that needs such monsters. They really need a good solid coverstock in the Vibe arsenal!!
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Another thing I noticed with the Vibe line was how much the two solids (Black/Blue) overlapped a lot of their higher end offerings. I remember working a demo day when the Black Widow/Blue Vibe came out and the Blue Vibe was the real standout of that demo day as it hooked and hit just as much as everything else did at the time. The Black Vibe was a few stronger than the blue vibe. I know Ritchie Allen and Bill O'Neill used to throw them a ton on Shark and it was probably the most ball for the dollar in it's class at release. Now I can't speak for Hammer directly but I'm sure they've gone the route of scaling back on the strength of the Vibes in order to create the separation in the product line.
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I still have my Blue and Onyx vibes...they are still in great shape and love the reaction.
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I'm not gonna lie. I would throw an entire vibe arsenal if a solid vibe comes out. By the way, is the cobalt vibe really that strong of a ball? I'm thinking about buying one and really taking the flare out and getting as much length as possible. Or, should I look for a grape or midnight vibe?
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Who here is up for a Vibe core wrapped in the Jet Black Taboo coverstock????
Eh?
Any takers?????
Hammer...listen up!!!!!
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I'm not gonna lie. I would throw an entire vibe arsenal if a solid vibe comes out. By the way, is the cobalt vibe really that strong of a ball? I'm thinking about buying one and really taking the flare out and getting as much length as possible. Or, should I look for a grape or midnight vibe?
I don't have a Grape,but I can tell you that my Cobalt is about three boards stronger,and a good 2-3 feet earlier than my Midnight Vibe.Hope that helps you out.
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I'm not gonna lie. I would throw an entire vibe arsenal if a solid vibe comes out. By the way, is the cobalt vibe really that strong of a ball? I'm thinking about buying one and really taking the flare out and getting as much length as possible. Or, should I look for a grape or midnight vibe?
As I said, every new pearl Vibe is stronger than the previous.
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Who here is up for a Vibe core wrapped in the Jet Black Taboo coverstock????
Eh?
Any takers?????
Hammer...listen up!!!!!
No doubt that would be an awsome ball,but that would give the Vibe line a ball that could pretty much go head to head with the new First Blood.I don't see the folks at Hammer doing that.
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I know EBO did a cyclone core rapped in the jet black cover they call it the cyclone pro.
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Maybe the gtr lll but maybe the black widow original cover.
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I know EBO did a cyclone core rapped in the jet black cover they call it the cyclone pro.
You're right,the Cyclone pro was an overseas release.It's not widely available here in the states,But if you want one Cliff Barnes pro shop has them for sale online.I'm sure it's a great ball.
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Maybe the gtr lll but maybe the black widow original cover.
The Cobalt Vibe has the Original Widow coverstock with a pearl additive,so I don't see why they couldn't release a solid version.I would certainly consider purchasing one.
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I still have my original blue vibe as well. (Cherry Vibe also) Bowled a scratch tournament this winter and started with 803 for first three games while moving a pair after each game. Ball is consistent as the day is long.
I still have my Blue and Onyx vibes...they are still in great shape and love the reaction.
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If the market really dictates it they will I'm sure. I'd say the market is much smaller then expected which is why it wouldn't make them tons of money. It is still there entry price point ball and for many it is the go to ball when the lanes are drying out and they want something pearl and polished to give them a better look on the drier shot.
Why not just get the Cyclone. It comes from the same place and will probably do what your looking for. Or are you on Hammer staff and need it to say Hammer to work?
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Are there pearl cyclones? Just wondering how they compare to the vibe series.
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Are there pearl cyclones? Just wondering how they compare to the vibe series.
Although some Ebo Int'l people had said, when they first came out, they were all solids, many other people said there was one solid and the rest were pearls. In any case, mostly they're a very strong hooking ball for medium-light to medium oil. Since they're already at 4000 grit + polish, they can only be made weaker via drillings.
I'd say they were the Ebo equivalent of the Hammer Vibe series, with a little more overall hook, except for the Grape and the Cobalt. I think those two are close in overall hook to the Cyclones.
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I also miss my Blue Vibe and missed "out" on the Onyx. Now I only have the Grape. I have always "dreamed" they'd come up with a "hybrid" Vibe.
I don't know what's with that core. The Vibes just seem to hit the hardest for me( would knock down 7/4 on high hits and rarely leave pocket 7/10's); while the other balls would carry a little better on light hits.
I have always questioned the justification of high prices on so called "high performance" balls. I have those( some turned out to be just so-so or even a bust) but my cheaper balls have performed just as good. I would not hesitate to get a Solid and/or Hybrid Vibe even for over $100 (pre-drilled).
I guess they just don't want these cheap balls to "compete" with their money makers........
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Jeff... I know it's not a Hammer piece... but have you checked out Track's new 300C Solid? The new core is high RG and high diff...
http://trackbowling.com/products/product_detail/300c_solid (http://trackbowling.com/products/product_detail/300c_solid)
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I had a 300C and in my opionion it's much weaker than any vibe I own.
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I had a 300C and in my opionion it's much weaker than any vibe I own.
Agreed, but the new one has a much more dynamic core...
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May be a stretch to find, but you may have to look overseas.
For example, the Jet Black Vibe that was released:
http://www.legend-star.com/ball-vibe_jet_black.html
Jet Black Taboo cover, Vibe core.
For all of you wanting to go old school, they did similar with the new Purple Hammer: Modified urethane coverstock, Symmetric Vibe core.
http://www.legend-star.com/ball-purple_hammer.html
BL.
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For all of you wanting to go old school, they did similar with the new Purple Hammer: Modified urethane coverstock, Symmetric Vibe core.
http://www.legend-star.com/ball-purple_hammer.html
BL.
Brad,
That looks like the "our" Blue Hammer" in a purple color coverstock, no???
(the key for me was the specs for the core)
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Jeff... I know it's not a Hammer piece... but have you checked out Track's new 300C Solid? The new core is high RG and high diff...
http://trackbowling.com/products/product_detail/300c_solid (http://trackbowling.com/products/product_detail/300c_solid)
Not yet. I had used the 300T a bit this season.
Just saw it mentioned today or yesterday. Will check it out. thanx!
Just saw it: A major load of differential!! Wonder how close that will make it to being a Blue or Onyx replacement. Plus if you put a little surface on it ....
Can't wait to see the BJI and BTM reviews!
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For all of you wanting to go old school, they did similar with the new Purple Hammer: Modified urethane coverstock, Symmetric Vibe core.
http://www.legend-star.com/ball-purple_hammer.html
BL.
Brad,
That looks like the "our" Blue Hammer" in a purple color coverstock, no???
(the key for me was the specs for the core)
Looking at it, yeah, you're pretty much right. Even going off of the Japanese specs for the Blue and Purple, it has the same cover, hardness, finish, RG and diff, but just a different color to the cover and different logo..
BL.
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Talk about the "core".....I notice most cores are "light bulb" shaped but I have not seen other cores that are similar to the unique shape of the Vibe core( Hammer has not even tried the "Modified Vibe core" routine?). This really puzzles me as we all know how good it is. I probably don't know enough.........
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Talk about the "core".....I notice most cores are "light bulb" shaped but I have not seen other cores that are similar to the unique shape of the Vibe core( Hammer has not even tried the "Modified Vibe core" routine?). This really puzzles me as we all know how good it is. I probably don't know enough.........
The Blue Hammer urethane does have a modified Vibe core!
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I agree 100% pearls are nice but why have 2 pearl vibes in the vibe line at the same time without a solid hmm dosnt make sense. They have done this twice now cherry and green and now cobalt and grape. Bring on a hybrid, solid, and one pearl and keep that way year after year. Discontinue one replace it with same type of cover maybe update it. I still have original blue vibe NIB but it is like gold to me I also have like 4 drilled up still. In my opinion best ball ever for me when all else fails I grab a blue vibe. I also have an original purple vibe plugged 15lbs that is like brand new condition willing to except offers for it but these are like impossible to find now so it would have to be a really really good offer.
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tracks new 300 c is a solid could be intereresting.any hammer questions ask the hammerman plowboy 300
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I know this isnt the fs/classifieds section but i thought id let you all in on a little secret... Who here has ever heard of the elusive limited released peach vibe????
Well i was fortunate enough to pick one up a few years back at the hammer booth in reno, and although some spec sheets say it has a pearlized ct max reactive cover, im under the impression that it is indeed a solid cover, as ive owned all the vibes, and it fits exactly between my og blue, and onyx vibe in terms of length and overall reaction, with the same smoothness off the dry as those two with their solid covers.... I very well could be wrong, nonetheless thats the reaction it gives which is much more important than just saying its a solid or a pearl lol.
Anyways, due to a long two year hiatus from the sport and now returning this fall, im planning on going back up to 15lbs euipment, and this beautiful singledrilled peach vibe with less than 12 games is a 14lber and as hard as it is for me to part with this beautiful rare, collectors item....if the price is right, i may indeed be willing to sell it, but only to someone who will understand and truel appreciate its value. So check out the classifieds section here for my 14lb SD PEACH VIBE FS
Thanks guys