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Author Topic: Beat'N Reverse layout  (Read 2489 times)

Greg T

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Beat'N Reverse layout
« on: January 02, 2008, 01:46:44 PM »

 Has anyone tried a regular layout on a Beat'n? By this I mean putting the heart in the 75 or 85 degree position on the right side of the thumb? Just wondering what reaction you're getting.


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Xfest

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 09:48:26 PM »
Somebody posted the other day and said it was a smoother arcing type of roll.. I would guess it would be like a regular ball with the MB left of thumb..
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chitown

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2008, 07:53:01 AM »
Greg from what i've seen the pin is still the major factor with the NO MERCY type of bowling balls.  Placing the HART right of the thumb for a right hander will get the ball into it's roll sooner and give a much weaker move on the back end.

I look at it like this.  The HART is about 4" left of where the MB should be.  I had a NO MERCY with the HART about 3" left of the thumb and it really flipped hard on the back end.  Placing the HART 1" left of my thumb would be like having the MB on my VAL.  So if I were to move the HART 1" right of the thumb the MB would be close to a 0 to 25 degree layout.  

This is just from what i've observed.  I have owned 4 NO MERCY'S but never placed the HART right of the thumb.  I only change the pin placements.  I wouldn't mind trying one out with the HART right of the thumb.
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Greg T

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 09:04:32 AM »
quote:
Greg from what i've seen the pin is still the major factor with the NO MERCY type of bowling balls.  Placing the HART right of the thumb for a right hander will get the ball into it's roll sooner and give a much weaker move on the back end.

I look at it like this.  The HART is about 4" left of where the MB should be.  I had a NO MERCY with the HART about 3" left of the thumb and it really flipped hard on the back end.  Placing the HART 1" left of my thumb would be like having the MB on my VAL.  So if I were to move the HART 1" right of the thumb the MB would be close to a 0 to 25 degree layout.  

This is just from what i've observed.  I have owned 4 NO MERCY'S but never placed the HART right of the thumb.  I only change the pin placements.  I wouldn't mind trying one out with the HART right of the thumb.


  Thats what I was wondering about. I wasnt sure if the heart WAS the MB or id the heart was a certain distance FROM the MB. So, you're saying the heart is 4" left of the actual MB?


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azguy

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 09:39:00 AM »
On the original NM drill sheet, there were 2 drills with the Heart on the right side, for a righty. The first was a Strong Arc (#2) and the other was Length with a Smooth Arc (#4) . Remember, there were originally 8 drills for the NM , not sure why, later models, they cut them down so bad, but I kept that sheet and have drilled several with the Heart on the right of the thumb. More arc than snap, worked great for those I used it on.
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Greg T

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 10:40:03 AM »
quote:
On the original NM drill sheet, there were 2 drills with the Heart on the right side, for a righty. The first was a Strong Arc (#2) and the other was Length with a Smooth Arc (#4) . Remember, there were originally 8 drills for the NM , not sure why, later models, they cut them down so bad, but I kept that sheet and have drilled several with the Heart on the right of the thumb. More arc than snap, worked great for those I used it on.
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  We have a LOT of long oil in the house and the #1 layout is just working for me. I have to really struggle to get to the pocket. After it dries up a bit I find a shot for maybe one game and then too much backend. It's odd. No backend on fresh with too much later on. I was thinking of another BeatN, cuz I love it, with another layout. I may try one with the heart just to the right. I'm a high tracker.
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DP3

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 11:01:48 AM »
quote:
Greg from what i've seen the pin is still the major factor with the NO MERCY type of bowling balls.  Placing the HART right of the thumb for a right hander will get the ball into it's roll sooner and give a much weaker move on the back end.

I look at it like this.  The HART is about 4" left of where the MB should be.  I had a NO MERCY with the HART about 3" left of the thumb and it really flipped hard on the back end.  Placing the HART 1" left of my thumb would be like having the MB on my VAL.  So if I were to move the HART 1" right of the thumb the MB would be close to a 0 to 25 degree layout.  

This is just from what i've observed.  I have owned 4 NO MERCY'S but never placed the HART right of the thumb.  I only change the pin placements.  I wouldn't mind trying one out with the HART right of the thumb.


It doesn't make sense that the Hart is 4" left of the actual mass bias, because if you mirror the layout for a lefty that would put the "MB" that you're talking about way on the backside of their track in the later flare rings.  This core migrates to it's PSA in such a way that a weaker position of the MB promotes a more continuous arc/roll to it, and a stronger MB placement spins up very fast and rolls forward for the last 30 feet.
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Greg T

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 11:10:23 AM »
quote:
quote:
Greg from what i've seen the pin is still the major factor with the NO MERCY type of bowling balls.  Placing the HART right of the thumb for a right hander will get the ball into it's roll sooner and give a much weaker move on the back end.

I look at it like this.  The HART is about 4" left of where the MB should be.  I had a NO MERCY with the HART about 3" left of the thumb and it really flipped hard on the back end.  Placing the HART 1" left of my thumb would be like having the MB on my VAL.  So if I were to move the HART 1" right of the thumb the MB would be close to a 0 to 25 degree layout.  

This is just from what i've observed.  I have owned 4 NO MERCY'S but never placed the HART right of the thumb.  I only change the pin placements.  I wouldn't mind trying one out with the HART right of the thumb.


It doesn't make sense that the Hart is 4" left of the actual mass bias, because if you mirror the layout for a lefty that would put the "MB" that you're talking about way on the backside of their track in the later flare rings.  This core migrates to it's PSA in such a way that a weaker position of the MB promotes a more continuous arc/roll to it, and a stronger MB placement spins up very fast and rolls forward for the last 30 feet.
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop.  Hyattsville, MD
Coach: University of Maryland Baltimore County Mens Bowling


   I see your point and it's a good one. Could it be that the ball is just that strong that they recommend the weak layout? Maybe putting the heart to the right will make the ball stronger?



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DP3

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2008, 11:23:00 AM »
Putting the Hart right will be weaker.  As with anything strength related, too much of it becomes overkill.  Whenever a ball is designed, the core numbers and strength of them translate into time (spin time).  The faster the spin time, the faster the core migrates to its' PSA.  That doesn't necessarily mean it will hook more.  When placing the Hart in the "strong" position it reaches it's PSA almost immediately and loses the ability to continue to migrate before it stabilizes, therefore you lose continuation.  I tried a No mercy with everything in line 90 degrees, pin above bridge, MB below thumb and even then the move was alot weaker in hook potential than those I've seen with the hart in the track.
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Greg T

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2008, 11:50:40 AM »
quote:
Putting the Hart right will be weaker.  As with anything strength related, too much of it becomes overkill.  Whenever a ball is designed, the core numbers and strength of them translate into time (spin time).  The faster the spin time, the faster the core migrates to its' PSA.  That doesn't necessarily mean it will hook more.  When placing the Hart in the "strong" position it reaches it's PSA almost immediately and loses the ability to continue to migrate before it stabilizes, therefore you lose continuation.  I tried a No mercy with everything in line 90 degrees, pin above bridge, MB below thumb and even then the move was alot weaker in hook potential than those I've seen with the hart in the track.
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...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop.  Hyattsville, MD
Coach: University of Maryland Baltimore County Mens Bowling


  I seem to enjoy a higher pin placement type of layout so mine came out with the pin over ring. Maybe I should try one with pin a little closer to pap. Like may 3.5 to 4 inch and keep the heart in my track area.
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chitown

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2008, 12:56:00 PM »
quote:
 It doesn't make sense that the Hart is 4" left of the actual mass bias, because if you mirror the layout for a lefty that would put the "MB" that you're talking about way on the backside of their track in the later flare rings. This core migrates to it's PSA in such a way that a weaker position of the MB promotes a more continuous arc/roll to it, and a stronger MB placement spins up very fast and rolls forward for the last 30 feet.


I'm not saying that the MB is for sure 4" right of the HART.  I'm trying to give an idea from what i've seen with the 4 No Mercy's i've had.  It seems the further left of the thumb the HART is, he stronger the back end reaction.  I had a NM with the HART 3" left of my thumb and it had the strongest back end   reaction of all 4 of my NM's.   It seemed to me the further right I moved the HART the more arc type reaction occured.  The further left I went with the HART the stronger the back end reaction was.   This is the same thing that happens with placing the MB near or past the VAL creates more of an arc and closer to the thumb creates more flip.

A left handed bowler can look at the NM the opposite way as I do.
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chitown

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Re: Beat'N Reverse layout
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2008, 12:58:41 PM »
quote:
 seem to enjoy a higher pin placement type of layout so mine came out with the pin over ring. Maybe I should try one with pin a little closer to pap. Like may 3.5 to 4 inch and keep the heart in my track area.


Greg be very careful with your pin location on this ball.  The NM and Beatn' are very strong bowling balls.  Everyone I know that did not like and or have good success with the NM had the pin location under 4" from there PAP.  You will not get a strong back end reaction with a real strong pin placement with this ball.
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