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Author Topic: Unsure about the Vibes  (Read 4537 times)

Redline

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Unsure about the Vibes
« on: July 17, 2007, 07:31:30 AM »
After working with my Toxic and BWP a bit more on fresh conditions, it has become apparent that I definitely need a "drier" lane ball.

Problem being is that I can't decide between the Blue or Cherry Vibe.  

Playing down and in, I want the length that the Cherry offers, but am afraid of it being too strong/angular/uncontrollable off the dry.

From what I have read, the Blue vibe is smoother but doesn't provide as much length or a strong reaction off the dry.

I am thinking of getting the Blue Vibe but drilling it with the pin up to try and create extra length and a strong but controllable turn off the dry.

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Dyno-Joe

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2007, 03:54:39 PM »
Since you know where your axis is, just place the pin 6 inches from your axis. You can keep the pin up for angular backend motion or pin down to be a strong arc. Pin height does not dictate length. Pin distance to axis does. Get the blue one if you want a smoother transition from skid to hook, or get the Cherry if you a more skid snap type of ball reaction.
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2007, 04:07:05 PM »
If you want either ball for dry conditions make sure to drill them for as much length as you can. Both balls are more aggressive than you think they are. The blue will be smoother than the cherry off the point but can still be pretty snappy.
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2007, 04:10:57 PM »
quote:
Pin height does not dictate length. Pin distance to axis does.


Pin height will change when the ball rolls, which WILL effect length. Pin height will put more or less weight in the fingers or thumb, which WILL effect length.

Edited on 7/17/2007 4:11 PM
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Redline

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2007, 04:47:32 PM »
When I was referring to "pin up" its just a general location of where the pin will be in relation to my finger line.  

To address other things:

Dyno-Joe:  I will probably go with a 5 1/2 pin to pap layout.  I tried a 6in layout before and had trouble getting the ball to finish.

I guess my main desire is that I want a strong move off the dry.  I am worried that the Cherry will be too much and Blue won't be enough.  So that is why I am torn as to which one would suit my needs.
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 04:53:55 PM »
Off the dry the BV will not disappoint. But with a 5 1/2pin to pap I think the CV will be more of what your looking for
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Redline

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 05:14:30 PM »
bluerrpilot-Could you expand on your previous post.  If anything, I was thinking the exact opposite of what you posted.  So I am very interested in hearing your logic behind your advice.  Thanks!
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 05:44:53 PM »
I tried a BV with a 5 1/2 pin to pap and it didnt have a very good move in the back. My current BV is 4 pin to pap and although its more of an arc, it moves bettter and more consistantly in the dry. The CV will be stronger in the back than the BV but shouldnt be overly angular. And if it is, you can knock the cover down and tame it out.

Edited on 7/17/2007 5:46 PM
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Monster Stitch

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 05:52:40 PM »
You will be not disappointed with the BLue Vibe. It's smooth and controllable.
Drill it 5-1/2 to 6 inches from pap with the cg towards your center of grip. If that doesn't work you can always sand the ball with your track and matte finish it with Rough Buff then polish. It's amazing how that Brunswick Rough Buff tames balls down.
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Redline

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 06:16:50 PM »
bluerrpilot-thanks for the input, i think with that input, the CV is definitely the better pick.

Judging by the description of the ball reaction, I want smooth, but I don't like "arc-y" balls.  I will probably get the CV, and if its too uncontrollable, adjust the cover.

Thanks everyone!
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 06:33:31 PM »
Moving weight???

Aren't we talking moving ENDING CG....Oh OH...there I said it!

AS to where the pin is and where the  cg is on a particular ball and lenght.

I don't believe there is much debate that moving pin above the fingers makes a ball longer than pin below fingers.  As to moving cg up....above grip center and creating fingerweight there IS clearly some debate but I think that adds length too!  As to pin to pap distance....farther from pap seems to add length also.

As to which ball is longer....a pin up super low rg ball may be earlier than a pin down high rg ball with surface....tough to predict.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2007, 07:07:48 PM »
quote:
Moving weight???

Aren't we talking moving ENDING CG....Oh OH...there I said it!

AS to where the pin is and where the  cg is on a particular ball and lenght.

I don't believe there is much debate that moving pin above the fingers makes a ball longer than pin below fingers.  As to moving cg up....above grip center and creating fingerweight there IS clearly some debate but I think that adds length too!  As to pin to pap distance....farther from pap seems to add length also.

As to which ball is longer....a pin up super low rg ball may be earlier than a pin down high rg ball with surface....tough to predict.

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


the way i understood it was this:

2 identical Blue Vibes with 3" pins and 3oz of top weight. Holes drilled to the same depth. One ball has the pin above the bridge and the other below it. the one with the pin above has finger weight making it go longer. The ball with the pin down will roll later due to thumb weight.
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DP3

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2007, 10:11:15 PM »
That was an incredible post.  Bravo!
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Redline

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2007, 10:37:50 PM »
Absolutebowling-

To answer your question about preferred layouts.  I have had the most success lately with 5 to 5 1/2 pin to pap drillings.  

I was planning on copying the layout on my Toxic.  It gives me plenty of length and lots of backend recovery.  It's basically pin over the bridge.  I use a "mb" marker and put that 2inches right of my thumb (strong position)-the CG ends up where it does, then place the x-hole on the "mb" spot.

The biggest problem with bowling on my THS during league is three fold.  First off, everyone plays in the same area-so it gets burned by around the middle of the 2nd game.  There is too much oil in the middle to move in and still carry.  The last being is that they create an OOB downlane...so no wall.   There are two options, more speed or find some way to create friction down lane..normally by playing VERY slow.

For me, I have trouble generating the needed speed, and can't slow it down.  Instead, I try for covers and drilling that allow me to push the ball farther down lane.  In the past with drillings with shorter pin to pap layouts-they read too early.  With my current setup...my BWP opens, my Toxic pushes about 3-5ft more than the widow. I want something I can move when my Toxic becomes too much-i.e 3rd game ball if needed.

I ended up ordering a Cherry Vibe.  I thought it over, and my main concern was the arc like reaction from the vibe.  I wanted more of a skid snap reaction.  I can make adjustments if its too much, but I am sure this will fit the need.  I will post up results later.  I should have it drilled up later this week or beginning of next week.



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charlest

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Re: Unsure about the Vibes
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2007, 11:08:20 PM »
quote:

Playing down and in, I want the length that the Cherry offers, but am afraid of it being too strong/angular/uncontrollable off the dry.

From what I have read, the Blue vibe is smoother but doesn't provide as much length or a strong reaction off the dry.

I am thinking of getting the Blue Vibe but drilling it with the pin up to try and create extra length and a strong but controllable turn off the dry.



????

If the Blue is smoother and that's what you want AND need, why are you drilling it to make it react like the Purple and the CHerry (more towards skid/flip) if that is what you don't want?

Move the pin further away from the PAP and higher above the midline will make its reaction more towards the skid/flip side than the arc-ing side, you seem to want/need.

If you want more length and less backend, sand it finer, like, 2000 grit and then add a dose of polish.
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