Author Topic: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it? (Read 4530 times)

chitown · « **on:** April 06, 2007, 04:09:08 PM »

If Hammer made a true urethane covered ball with a high performance core, would you buy it?

I wish Hammer would make a ball like this for dry lanes. Heck the ball would also be good for overreacting back ends that you find on some difficult patterns.
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real! Using this ball is like cheating!

monstercrank · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2007, 12:19:12 AM »

Yes.
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Scott Fello's Striking Results Proshop
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If guns kill people then spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!

mrteach3 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2007, 07:01:27 AM »

True, Visionary has done it, but now that it is discontinued, there is nothing out there. Someone, anyone, help us out. There is a calling for such a ball.
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Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!

gsback · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2007, 07:14:43 AM »

Chitown, what's wrong with some of the older Faball stuff then?

jkiser01 and I have this conversation many times. Though there is nothing wrong with making new stuff. However when he showed me the Black Widow Spare ball, I had to laugh. That's the biggest joke in the world.

My point is that there are plenty of balls that would be more than adequate for the conditions you've mentioned. Though the core in the older Hammers may not be the best for the heavier, sport or tournament conditions, put a little shine on a black or purple Hammer and let the ball do the talking.

I've seen plenty of people do this with great results.

Now, I am not knocking your question so don't take it that way. Personally, I use the older stuff considerably more than anything new for the exact reason you mentioned....overreacting. I have one new release, that being the Diesel Particle Pearl. That shows you how much I buy of new Hammer stuff. All of my stuff is older (original High-Rev Offset, Bravo (3D Pearl Blem), Sledge Hammer, 4D HPT).

I agree with Sean though, and though the Slate Blue might be hard to find, older Hammers are still out there plenty. Might not be NIB, and if that's your point, then fine.

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DanR · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2007, 09:43:45 AM »

NO. how many time do you get in situation to use a true urethane ball? Not worth the investment

wpzone · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2007, 01:09:38 PM »

I used think this same thing a couple years ago and always kept an original blue hammer in my bag, leverage/axis drilled. It did come in handy one time, shot 780 something in city team playing about 17-12 when nobody else in the house could find a decent shot. But since then I have learned a lot more about the new technology of the balls, cores, coverstocks, and drillings and no longer think this is needed. It is not hard to get these new balls to have a nice even rolling predictable reaction, even in the dry, by setting it up correctly for the shot. Too many people now days think they need the biggest skid flip ball on the market, then drill to exagerate that reaction, and complain when they cannot control it outside of their THS. So my answer is no, with a little education, it is not needed now days. I also dont think it would sell much either, since it wont be the biggest, most hooking ball on the market.

Edited on 4/7/2007 1:09 PM

chitown · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:29:51 AM »

quote:
NO. how many time do you get in situation to use a true urethane ball? Not worth the investment

For me, A lot! I feel any tourney bowler should have one of these balls in there bag. If you bowl on Sport, PBA or tough lane conditions a urethane ball with a good core is very valuble.

Visionary discontinued the slate blue. Which ever company makes a ball like this in the near furture will get my money. I will be the first to buy the ball.
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real! Using this ball is like cheating!

chitown · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:32:10 AM »

quote:
I used think this same thing a couple years ago and always kept an original blue hammer in my bag, leverage/axis drilled. It did come in handy one time, shot 780 something in city team playing about 17-12 when nobody else in the house could find a decent shot. But since then I have learned a lot more about the new technology of the balls, cores, coverstocks, and drillings and no longer think this is needed. It is not hard to get these new balls to have a nice even rolling predictable reaction, even in the dry, by setting it up correctly for the shot. Too many people now days think they need the biggest skid flip ball on the market, then drill to exagerate that reaction, and complain when they cannot control it outside of their THS. So my answer is no, with a little education, it is not needed now days. I also dont think it would sell much either, since it wont be the biggest, most hooking ball on the market.

Edited on 4/7/2007 1:09 PM

For the typical walled up house condition bowler, this ball wont be of much use. However for the serious bolwer that hits tourney's and bowls on difficult patterns this ball will be very helpful.

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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real! Using this ball is like cheating!

DP3 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2007, 02:35:57 PM »

I think the true "need" for Urethane is non-exsistant. Balls that roll early and even out the transition to dry have been generalized as a "urethane reaction" mainly because thats what bowlers that came up in the Urethane age were used to seeing. Being a bowler that has bowler collegiately for 4 years and bowls 10-15 non house shot tournaments a year, along with practice/league play on sport and pba patterns I have never encountered a situation or heard a fellow bowler say they'd need a urethane.

With today's oils Urethane wouldn't start up that early midlane roll that we're used to seeing. On fresher oils it will skid and lack the entry angle needed on the backend to finish, even on shorter patterns. On lighter volumes Urethane will grab in the fronts too quick so it becomes a chore getting the ball down the lane and through the carrydown. Combine that with a core with alot of flare and you'll have a ball that's going to flare up and quit before it gets to the part of the lane you're trying to throw it.

I have two Urethanes (a Pearl Orange Dot and Grey Rhino). They do offer optimal control and on house patterns I have been able to square up and do ok(not nearly enough power and entry angle to keep up with the scoring pace however). What we can do instead of looking/wishing for Urethane is to invest in a medium to high load particle and apply polish to it. This gives a motion similar to urethane. Control and readability up front, yet more continuous in the back and with today's cores more entry angle in order to power out the light hits and yeild a higher percentage on flush hits. There have been some great higher load particles that when polished react very well for the situations many of you are describing. The Roto Grip Oracle, Ebonite Low Flare Particle, Storm Flash Flood, Brunswick Mammoth, Track Mutant, Columbia Power Drive Sanded, Hammer Razor Blade. Maybe a Higher load particle with polish on a "retro" type core would work pretty well for a niche type ball. As long as it has a nice shelf appeal and are made in a limited run it could do pretty well.
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop

Edited on 4/8/2007 2:39 PM

chitown · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2007, 08:37:00 PM »

quote:
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I think the true "need" for Urethane is non-exsistant. Balls that roll early and even out the transition to dry have been generalized as a "urethane reaction" mainly because thats what bowlers that came up in the Urethane age were used to seeing. Being a bowler that has bowler collegiately for 4 years and bowls 10-15 non house shot tournaments a year, along with practice/league play on sport and pba patterns I have never encountered a situation or heard a fellow bowler say they'd need a urethane.

It's all in the eye of the beholder. I have a need for a urethane covered ball. There great for toasted patterns that reactive balls don't work well on.

I bowl on very difficult patterns that a ball like this would be of some good use. I also bowled a tourney a week ago and came across a few pairs of lanes that were completely fried. A ureathane ball would have worked great for those conditions.

quote:
With today's oils Urethane wouldn't start up that early midlane roll that we're used to seeing. On fresher oils it will skid and lack the entry angle needed on the backend to finish, even on shorter patterns. On lighter volumes Urethane will grab in the fronts too quick so it becomes a chore getting the ball down the lane and through the carrydown. Combine that with a core with alot of flare and you'll have a ball that's going to flare up and quit before it gets to the part of the lane you're trying to throw it.

The purpose of the urethane is not for it to start up early in the mid lane like the old days. A covered ball like this on todays oils gives a lot of length and smoothness thru out the lane.

Urethane will grab too quick and be a chore to get down the lane and through carrydown?

Have you ever seen a slate blue gargoyle in action on fried lanes? How about light oil overreacting back ends that are common in tounrey's? This is a urethane ball with a high perfromance core that glides thru friend heads and packs a great punch at the pins.

quote:
I have two Urethanes (a Pearl Orange Dot and Grey Rhino). They do offer optimal control and on house patterns I have been able to square up and do ok(not nearly enough power and entry angle to keep up with the scoring pace however). What we can do instead of looking/wishing for Urethane is to invest in a medium to high load particle and apply polish to it. This gives a motion similar to urethane. Control and readability up front, yet more continuous in the back and with today's cores more entry angle in order to power out the light hits and yeild a higher percentage on flush hits. There have been some great higher load particles that when polished react very well for the situations many of you are describing. The Roto Grip Oracle, Ebonite Low Flare Particle, Storm Flash Flood, Brunswick Mammoth, Track Mutant, Columbia Power Drive Sanded, Hammer Razor Blade. Maybe a Higher load particle with polish on a "retro" type core would work pretty well for a niche type ball. As long as it has a nice shelf appeal and are made in a limited run it could do pretty well.

I agree with some of this. I owned one particle that was actually useable on dry lanes. It would burn up and just not hook much but still hit good. However this is few and far between.

The other particle balls i've had did not work well on dried out patterns. They would grab way too early and be totally dead on arrival. I have also polished particle balls and they reacted too strong on the dry.

I bowl on difficult pattern all season during the league i'm on. I also bowl in tourney's. I come across friend out pairs at tourney's where reactive balls are just too strong to work well. I also have come across some short patterns that had some really strong overreacting back ends that make it hard to control the back end reaction. For conditions like this a urethane covered ball is a valuble asset. On top of that it could also be used as a spare ball.

Thanks to all for the reply's.

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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real! Using this ball is like cheating!

dzrtrnr · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2007, 09:09:00 PM »

No, I would not buy another urethane ball. I have used quite a few of these in the last 5 years(i.e. Blue Pearl Hammer, Blue Hammer,Scout,Thunder Flash,Thunder Flash Pro, Buzzsaw XXL) and even though I bowled 279 with the Blue Hammer and Thunder Flash Pro, these balls did not bail me out often enough to make them worth carrying around. When it was truely dry I had the best reaction with a Buzzsaw XXXL(plastic with a good core can hit very hard).
I am now using a Big Hit with a control drilling and lightly sanded surface in place of the urethane to control too much dry.

anotherwindup · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2007, 06:29:03 AM »

I agree with DP3, as I see no need for a Urethane coverstock in the Hammer line.

There are so many things you can do with layouts, polishes, hand positions, that I feel a urethane ball is unnecessary.

Just last week I brought the Burgandy PURE to a THS league. I didn't care for the reaction or pin carry. Changed to a NO MERCY witht he control drilling with polish, and had much more success.

I, personally, see no need for this type of ball.
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Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
'06-'07 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"

http://www.hammerbowling.com/hammertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2

BBR-Bill · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2007, 08:05:14 AM »

A true urethane ball is not needed in today's game. The bowlers that think that Urethane is the answer need different layouts and need to learn to adjust.

Wet/Dry and Over/Under lane condition can be matched pretty easy using the proper layouts.

How often do you see guys on the tour throwing Urethane on the show? Do you think that your carry percentage will be as high using an old Burdgandy Hammer versus someone throwing a No Mercy?
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Thanks,
Bill
BowlingBallReviews.com

anotherwindup · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2007, 08:38:06 AM »

quote:

See Profile for arsenal

I looked.

You state haveing a 5 3/4" over PAP. This means you are up the back, but yet all I see is 4-4.5" PIN to PAP layouts on STRONG balls. If you are having trouble with wet/dry, why not try a tame ball with a 5.5"-6" pin to pap layout. May change your opinion on needing urethane.

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Jason Jenkins
'05-'06 Hammer Amateur Staff
'06-'07 Hammer Amateur Staff
"Nothing HITS like a Hammer"

http://www.hammerbowling.com/hammertalk/forumdisplay.php?f=2

chitown · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2007, 09:22:10 AM »

quote:
A true urethane ball is not needed in today's game. The bowlers that think that Urethane is the answer need different layouts and need to learn to adjust.

Wet/Dry and Over/Under lane condition can be matched pretty easy using the proper layouts.

How often do you see guys on the tour throwing Urethane on the show? Do you think that your carry percentage will be as high using an old Burdgandy Hammer versus someone throwing a No Mercy?
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Thanks,
Bill
BowlingBallReviews.com

The guys on tour are not playing on fried lanes!
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real! Using this ball is like cheating!

Author Topic: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it? (Read 4530 times)

chitown

would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

monstercrank

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

mrteach3

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

gsback

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

DanR

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

wpzone

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

chitown

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

chitown

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

DP3

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

chitown

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

dzrtrnr

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

anotherwindup

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

BBR-Bill

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

anotherwindup

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?

chitown

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?