Post by: Nicanor on March 05, 2007, 07:16:25 AM
Anyone else having this problem??
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: GTX on March 05, 2007, 03:40:19 PM
though you realize with this type of ball, you have to keep it cleaned all the time and if the oil on the lane is not enough, the ball will just die so quick
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Member of F.O.S.
Post by: Roy Munson on March 05, 2007, 04:18:56 PM
The guy at Lane1 Forum mentioned this also
after around 19 games - gave it a bath and it's good to go ...
apparently, it sucks oil fast ...
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Looking for Cherry C2 and Cherry Bomb
or any old saws NIB or 1st drill
Post by: Nicanor on March 05, 2007, 04:21:01 PM
I also understand about how the heads could dry up quickly causing the ball to use its energy too quickly. So I moved in a little deeper and the ball didn't recover at all. This is a single person team and not a normal 4 or 5 person team.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Sawuser on March 05, 2007, 04:25:19 PM
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Righty
Think about it!
"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. "
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Post by: scottie on March 05, 2007, 04:54:42 PM
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Scottish by birth, British by law, Highlander by the grace of God!
Post by: Sawuser on March 05, 2007, 04:59:25 PM
quote:
could it just be that your lanes do not have enough oil..i polished my ball and its makes a huge difference with med oiled lanes that dry out...my friend did the same when the lanes broke down, and having applied a quick polish, produced a 725 series!
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Scottish by birth, British by law, Highlander by the grace of God!
Scottie, I wanted to keep mine dull to play inside line & in more oil, which so far has worked out well for me. How much less hook power did you notice after polishing. If they do suck oil that fast, I may have to polish mine to slow down the absorption a bit. If I polish mine, I'll have to find drier boards a little earlier, right?
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Righty
Think about it!
"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. "
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Post by: Steven on March 05, 2007, 05:12:20 PM
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"
Edited on 3/5/2007 6:10 PM
Post by: Sawuser on March 05, 2007, 05:36:05 PM
quote:
I hope Nicanor is on base with his observations. Posts like this will make bowlers avoid the ball like a plague. That won't be fair if the cause is something totally unrelated.
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"
Edited on 3/5/2007 6:10 PM
I hope they don't die at all. I have read 2 or 3 reports of such, but I'm hoping the reports are flawed. I have only 12 games on mine, but in the oil, & have noticed no loss of reaction. Reading this does have me worried however.
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Righty
Think about it!
"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. "
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Post by: novawagonmaster on March 05, 2007, 07:18:03 PM
It is still working just fine.
I clean all of my equipment within 30 minutes after each use.
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Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.
Post by: Nicanor on March 05, 2007, 07:50:12 PM
Now on another note, last Tuesday I shot an 684 with the G-Force. The one with the pin above the ring finger. I was palying a swing standing on 22 out to about 9 and back to the pocket. I had a great shot. Others on my pair where going coast to coast with the plastic spare ball.
Just going to keep the G-Force clean all the time.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Sawuser on March 05, 2007, 07:56:13 PM
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Righty
Think about it!
"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. "
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Post by: rackattack on March 05, 2007, 08:00:29 PM
If your ball dies it must be after years of bowling you no longer know how to read a lane or care for a ball.
What a crock.
Nicanor has owned many balls and bowled on many different conditions.I'm positive he knows how to clean a ball.This may just be a case of the ball being new and this question is premature.
I,for one,know if my equipment dies within a short amount of time I will not be to blame.After forty + years I will know coverstock flameout when I see it.
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It's all about the X
Post by: Nicanor on March 05, 2007, 08:52:33 PM
I am filling a Black Cherry and will drill it about 3 3/8 and kick the CG out toward the VAL to help the ball get into an earlier roll. I have no complaints about the carry with the G-Force when I can find a shot, its just that the ball went from an oil monster to a medium oil ball very quickly and there has to be a dry spot to bounce off ot or the G-Force sails.
I have bowled with the likes of Pchee2 and others that could hook a marble and have it go coast to coast, so I know there are bowlers out there that wil have great success with the G-Force.
I just want to know if others are having the same problems/success with the G-Force that I am having.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: ginro on March 05, 2007, 09:13:17 PM
Post by: T-GOD on March 05, 2007, 09:21:29 PM
Post by: Nicanor on March 06, 2007, 07:42:07 AM
I don't talk to Pchee2 very often or Doc Hollywood. Both great guys. But I do try and get to Fremont once a year to bowl and have breafast with them.
I think the only time Pchee2 picks up a owling ball is when I go up to visit. He has spent a lot of time the last couple of years building a race car. Oneof those dual turbo powered Supras I beleive with the onboard computer system. You know the type of car. But the car clocks the 1/4 in about 7 something the last I talked with him.
That plus his fundraising for children business keeps him oppcupied a lot also.
Back to the G-Force. I am not saying ther G-Force is having TEC Death syndrome. I will continue to clean it between sets and watch the reaction. What I am saying right now is that the ball sucks up so much oil so fast, that it loses reaction and quickly. In a single persson team league, where there is a lopt of oil and you could be the nly person playing that line, you are sucking up all the oil. Not getting any help from other teammates or opponets. IN a four person leaguie when there is a lot of oil there are others picking up the oil.
Honestlt speaking, those who say the ball is hooking more after use is possible. They can be working in a track, have higher ball track, have other teammates helping to remove some lane oil or just not bowling on the oil volume that I am.
I always expect to read that ne person says the ball is fading and another person says his still hooks the house. Its a normal phenonemen.
But I just want to recommend anyone using this ball to clean the ball after everyset and it they do stat to lose reaction to use something like a scotch brite pad and something like Hooh-It on a spinner to get the ball hot to help keep the reaction at least better.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: bobbabouy66 on March 06, 2007, 09:52:19 AM
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If at first you don't succeed
Throw another ball!
F.O.S. Member!!!
Post by: viruz on March 06, 2007, 01:03:58 PM
I also find ball reaction very irratic if there is not enough oil. In heavy oil its perfect but after a game or so when the lane starts to dry towards the medium oil level the ball gets a bit irratic which forces me to change balls.
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Uranium HRG 14lbs
G Force 14lbs
Post by: scottie on March 07, 2007, 04:41:06 AM
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Scottish by birth, British by law, Highlander by the grace of God!
Post by: Mr_Smooth on March 07, 2007, 05:54:30 AM
Now will is last like with 500 games on them is another question.
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Mr_Smooth
Post by: charlest on March 07, 2007, 05:26:55 PM
quote:
I understand the keeping the ball clean and I cleaned it before going to league.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Here's a major false assumption. Cleaning it before league is like opening the barn door to let the horses out AFTER the barn burns down.
You should be wiping the oil off the ball after every throw, and cleaning the ball with a good ball cleaner BEFORE putting the ball back into the bag after league play is over.
Columbia dull coverstocks absorb oil as fast as any other industry coverstock, as far as I know. Preventing that, as far as humanly possible, IS ball maintenance today.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on March 07, 2007, 05:31:38 PM
quote:
I find it interesting how loss of ball reaction has swung from blaming the manufacturer to blaming the consumer.
No, the consumer has always had to do his part as far as resin balls are concerned. We;ve just gotten to the point where we realize it is not ENTIRELY the manufacturer's fault. We/Bowlers always want stronger reacting balls; well, one of the keys is higher absorption rates. What's that phrase,
"Be careful what you ask for; you may get it." ?
Well, we got exactly what we asked for.
quote:
Nicanor has owned many balls and bowled on many different conditions.I'm positive he knows how to clean a ball.
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It's all about the X
Well, based on what he said explicitly above, in one of his follow-ups, I'd say he doesn't know when to clean it, which is as important as how. I based my reply on exactly what he said, not what he may have implied. If he is doing as I said he should, then I retract it. If not, ....
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Cobalt Bomb on March 07, 2007, 07:38:26 PM
Post by: rackattack on March 07, 2007, 07:38:43 PM
quote:
You should be wiping the oil off the ball after every throw, and cleaning the ball with a good ball cleaner BEFORE putting the ball back into the bag after league play is over.
What happens if you put that oily ball in your bag? Does the oil absorb so deep into the ball that no cleaner can get it out as goes about the dastardy deed of choking the life out of the coverstock?
I respect your opinion but I'm not buying into this theory without some proof.It may be an easier task right after bowling but not a case of too late damage done.I believe with a good cleaner clean is clean weather it be one minute or several hours later.I clean my equipment when I have the time and so far I have not had a ball die out any sooner than the wipe it as it comes out of the ball return guys.
I always equated high performance bowling balls to racing tires.It's the nature of the genre to wear out more quickly.But if the rubber wears off the rim as I leave the store I'm gonna look for a longer lasting tire with similar performance and warn my racing buddies about the short life span.
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It's all about the X
Post by: Sawuser on March 07, 2007, 08:30:43 PM
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Righty
Think about it!
"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. "
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Post by: Nicanor on March 07, 2007, 08:40:39 PM
For years I have carried a bowling ball cleaning towell with me. I can remember the first time I started using one, I would always leave it on the rack and one of my teammates would throw it me everytime, in fun, to remind me to take my towell with me when I leave the ball return area. Now I pick my towell up religously when leaving the lne/ball return area. I wipe my ball off after before every shot, but unfortunately, the bowlers won't let me wait for the ball after I throw at the spare or after a strike so that I can take my ball off the rack to clean it.
I bowl three times a week (at least) and I always do maintenance on the bowling balls before going to the lanes or the night before.
I've had the Solid Uranium for quite a while now and I have done this same practice for quite a while. The reaction on the SU has been much more consistant through the years then the G-Force in just a sample of the games that I threw with the SU and especially the Ebonite XXXL.
I will continue to work with the G-Force because I really liked the reaction I have with the polished one. I will work with the surface with the stronger drilled G-Force to see if I can find a method that works for me to keep the G-Force working in the heavier oil.
Thank you for all the replies.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: EboKnight on March 07, 2007, 08:43:27 PM
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A quote from conspirator300:
"And yeah, I do know it all.. I don't spend 30+ hours a week learning more about bowling for my heatlh... I do it so I know more than all of you.. which I do. (besides the random few that are staffers/work in the bowling business.. which that population is decreasing little by little)"
"Good Luck & Good Bowling"
Email me at: PreciseMatt@hotmail.com
Post by: novawagonmaster on March 08, 2007, 05:37:54 PM
quote:
I'm guilty of not cleaning my equipment immediately after use. I normaly clean them after I get home, but by then all visible oil is gone & only dirt & smudge remains to be cleaned. What happened to the oil? Did it evaporate or soak into the ball?
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Righty
It soaked into the ball.
If it evaporated that quickly, there would be no way to keep oil on the lanes all day.
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Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
F.O.S. Proud Saw user...see profile.
Post by: charlest on March 08, 2007, 05:48:15 PM
quote:quote:
You should be wiping the oil off the ball after every throw, and cleaning the ball with a good ball cleaner BEFORE putting the ball back into the bag after league play is over.
What happens if you put that oily ball in your bag? Does the oil absorb so deep into the ball that no cleaner can get it out as goes about the dastardy deed of choking the life out of the coverstock?
I respect your opinion but I'm not buying into this theory without some proof.
Proof of what? How fast oil is absorbed by resin?
It's NOT a theory.
See Ebonite's new resins starting with the One series. They documented how fast the oil is absorbed.
quote:
It may be an easier task right after bowling but not a case of too late damage done.I believe with a good cleaner clean is clean weather it be one minute or several hours later.I clean my equipment when I have the time and so far I have not had a ball die out any sooner than the wipe it as it comes out of the ball return guys.
That is not proof of anything but a string of decent luck. Plus some balls, like DynoThane Soakers and Legends balls, just do last longer before they need to be rejuvenated. I have a Riot Zone with over 1000 games on it; it has their Proactve 2.0 particle coverstock, designed to absorb les soil. The darn thing still hooks an incredible amount.
You can clean the ball to get dirt off, but you can't bring oil to the surface with any cleaner except maybe Clean and Dull. And C&D still won't the oil from the deeper layers of the resin, only that just barely below the surface.
Besides, you will never see a ball just die. It loses performance at a slow rate in general. It's the same as a track developing; you never see the ball all of a sudden hooking early. WHat you will see is, once the ball is re-surfaced, it will go much longer on the same oil than it did before. The same is true with oil absorption. Once the ball is rejuvenated, it will just start hooking almost as much as if it were new.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 3/8/2007 6:48 PM
Post by: rackattack on March 08, 2007, 08:58:30 PM
quote:
That is not proof of anything but a string of decent luck.
I'm just gonna go with luck I guess until a company guarantees if I follow the regimen you subscribe to my equipment will not flame out.I will not fall victim to the company placing the blame on me until I see them stand behind their product.
But for this discussion I don't think it's Nic's fault because he failed to clean his ball immediately after bowling.After this ball has been around awhile we will revisit the issue and see if it holds true that the cover fails for the neglectful only.
Or maybe it all comes down to who is lucky and who is not as you say.
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It's all about the X
Post by: charlest on March 08, 2007, 11:38:36 PM
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: rackattack on March 09, 2007, 05:41:23 AM
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It's all about the X
Post by: Sawuser on March 09, 2007, 05:55:41 AM
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Righty
Think about it!
"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. "
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Post by: rackattack on March 09, 2007, 06:07:55 AM
quote:
Seeing how the G-Force is some form of M80 coverstock, shouldn't the life of columbias Action series be having the same typical problems?(If it's a cover problem)
I thought Richie developed his own formulas based on the origional.No?
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It's all about the X
Post by: Sawuser on March 09, 2007, 06:18:57 AM
quote:quote:
Seeing how the G-Force is some form of M80 coverstock, shouldn't the life of columbias Action series be having the same typical problems?(If it's a cover problem)
I thought Richie developed his own formulas based on the origional.No?
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It's all about the X
On his hybrids with brunswick covers, he mixed them to his liking. He still used brunswicks basic coverstocks I do believe. For example part PK18 & part activator. I don't think he did that with columbias M-80, but not sure.
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Righty
Think about it!
"I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given to men. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. "
-- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
Post by: williewc on March 11, 2007, 03:41:12 AM
quote:
Has anyone thrown a coating of Doc's Magic Elixir on their G-Force to help slow the soaking up the oil process? My G-Force is on the way and I plan on given er a bath in the Elixir before it even sees a lane!
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If at first you don't succeed
Throw another ball!
F.O.S. Member!!!
where can i get the Elixir at?
Post by: Nicanor on March 11, 2007, 08:47:13 AM
Doc Hollywood.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Slopsurprise on March 11, 2007, 09:44:26 AM
quote:
I find it interesting how loss of ball reaction has swung from blaming the manufacturer to blaming the consumer.
If your ball dies it must be after years of bowling you no longer know how to read a lane or care for a ball.
What a crock.
Nicanor has owned many balls and bowled on many different conditions.I'm positive he knows how to clean a ball.This may just be a case of the ball being new and this question is premature.
I,for one,know if my equipment dies within a short amount of time I will not be to blame.After forty + years I will know coverstock flameout when I see it.
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It's all about the X
A post that makes sense.
Post by: Nicanor on March 12, 2007, 09:29:23 AM
Bowled the San Diego city masters tournament this weekend and missed qualifying by 5 pins. I missed that on pin count through 6 games and it was my fault.
I was using the BCB and the took away the shot for the most part from 10 out with a little too much oil. If I got inmto the oil about 9 I washed out with the BCB so I tried the G-Force. The G-Force followed the same path as the BCB but once it hit the dry, the G-Force did not have the recovery the BCB had both bowling balls being drilled as close as possible.
Again I put this on me, not blaming the bowling balls because I didn't move in like the bowlers who I was bowling with. I was staying close and I moved in a couple of times with continued wash outs. Toward the end I moved in to about 13 with a small swing and the G-Force recovered and controlled and almost got me to the semi finals.
So I will continue with the one G-Force I drilled for heavier oil, but to date, I still don't see it as an oiler. I think my other G-Force that is drilled to go longer and polished is great. Strong continuation on the back end good length and retains energy to kick out the 10 pin very well. Didn't work though at the tournament this weekend though. But I honestly didn't think it would.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: GTX on March 12, 2007, 11:05:44 AM
I assume the G-Force you were using in the tourney was dulled or OOB finish
sanding balls like the G-Force which are for heavy oil will make the ball try to grab the lane faster and the trade off is less backend from the ball. The reason for this is that most of the ball energy started at midlane. Polishing the ball will delay its break point and increase its backend. However, in a true heavy oil, you might not see the polished backend.
Mentioning that you were using the BCB, it kinda tells me the oil condition was not really that oily, could be the G-Force was dying on you too quick on the lane
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Member of F.O.S.
Post by: Nicanor on March 12, 2007, 03:31:17 PM
I did wet sand it down to 600 and cleaned the ball with a grey scotch brite pad and Clean and Dull. But the ball was ineffective.
I tried to use the G-Force in league again today without luck. I prepped both the Solid Uranium and the G-Force the same way, both bowling balls drilled as close as poossible and the G-Force skated while the Solid Uranium read the lanes extremely well.
So you might ask, why don't I just use the Solid Uranium. Because I paid approximately $200 drilled for a ball that does not live up to the expectations of the ball I thought I was buying.
I did not come to this conclusion with comparing this to just one ball. I also tested it to the Ebonite's XXXL and the Solid Uranium with the XXXL reading the heavier of the oil best. I had to put the XXXL away because it was reading the lanes too early and over hooking and I did not have the Solid Uranium with me at the tournament. I am going to try the G-Force on a medium oil shot with some back end to see if I can salvage a use for this ball, maybe a little polish also.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: GTX on March 12, 2007, 08:30:57 PM
now back to the G-Force .. I have mine drilled stacked as well and I love it .. others play down and in and I have to swing it ...
if the solid uranium is working nice on a condition that the G-Force is not, something is fishy here ..
I would suggest to make a video to let us see .. will be better if you throw another ball with it to compare them .. as we might see something you did not
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Member of F.O.S.
Post by: triggerman on March 12, 2007, 08:53:15 PM
from what i have seen the g force is a heavier oil ball but not necessarily a longer heavier oil ball, IE the backend rating on the g force is 75% of total hook, it does need some dry to turn over. the solid u with its dense core heavy core is a midlane monster, it is gonna start up no matter what, vast differences in these two balls.
now for experiment sake, if you were to take both drilled the same and throw on say a 41 ft flat pattern I think the g force in oob would outshine the solid u, for one reason alone, the solid u would start to bun up and leave flat tens, where as the g force is a later more angular move
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: LuckyLefty on March 12, 2007, 09:13:19 PM
The Ebonite Pantera and original Rasberry...my biggest hooking balls ever!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: triggerman on March 12, 2007, 09:14:51 PM
quote:
Oh those Rasberry's could hook!
The Ebonite Pantera and original Rasberry...my biggest hooking balls ever!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
pk 18 the master of midlane read
hummm wonder why there is still a teal in the bag, or I hunt tirelessly for a black raspberry, gotta love the read on the lanes
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: Nicanor on March 13, 2007, 09:05:01 AM
but again it goes back to saying that the G-Force is not the oiler the SU is or the oiler that the G-Force was touted to be.
I don't think it was a reverse blocked shot, but it could have been, but I think it was a flat shot with a ton of head oil.
I'm going to continue to work with the G-Force because I think it has potenial, just not as a heavier oil ball for me.
Thank you all for your replies.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)