Author Topic: Chainsaw Massacre not hooking (Read 2297 times)

Pattayabowler · « **on:** May 16, 2011, 03:34:23 PM »

Hi guys,

I just picked up my first Lane 1 bowling ball and I am beginning to think that maybe they don't match up very well with me. I am a left-handed bowler and purchased a 15 Chainsaw Massacre with a 2 1/2 inch Pin to CG. I would have preferred to have a longer pin because I wanted to drill the ball for a skid/flip reaction, but one was not available. With the 2 1/2 inch pin, it was difficult to drill a pin-up ball, but I had a dual angle 55 x 3 3/8 x 40 put on it which placed the pin at approximately 10:30 to my ring finger and the CG below slightly outside of a stacked leverage position.

I was rolling my Storm 2nd Dimension while the CM was being drilling and having great success rolling over the 10 board (from the left gutter) out to the 5 board at the break point with a nice smooth roll and strong, but continuous move on the backend yielding scores of 211, 206 and 219.

My driller brought out the Chainsaw Massacre and I began rolling it using the same line as the 2nd Dimension. The Chainsaw Massacre would not finish the turn at the breakpoint and ended up hitting light. I was expecting a hook monster of a ball, but this ball made only a slight turn at the breakpoint. It looked as if it had used up all of it's energy early on. I was bowling on a 41 foot house pattern, fresh medium oil that is a little wetter than normal outside off the 5 board. I barely broke 200 for the game, but to do so, I had to roll straight over the 2nd arrow, no belly, using a mild arc to the pocket. I even had the driller to leave a little bit ,1/4 inch of finger weight to aid in producing a skid/flip motion. The one thing positive that I can say is that the Chainsaw Massacre hits hard and keeps the pins low.

Being that the Chainsaw Massacre is touted as a medium oil ball, I decided to roll it against several other of my medium oil balls, a Hammer Emerald Vibe drilled similarly at 55 x 3 x 40 and a Lane Masters Sure Strike drilled 75 x 4 3/4 x 45, both pearl covered balls. I rolled them on my original line and both of these balls revved well and made strong moves off the breakpoint.

I just can't understand why the Chainsaw Massacre has become such a disappointment. It doesn't appear to rev nearly as much as I had expected and makes only a small move to the pocket; it is at OOB finish. My Pro Shop owner has an old well used Lane 1 Emerald Pearl ball which exhibits a strong move at the break point. I would appreciate any comments and ideas on how to get this ball to react as advertised. I know, a longer pin ball would be more conducive to producing a skid/flip motion, but I certainly feel that even with a shorter pin, if anything, should at least give me a strong ball movement even if it wasn't of the skid/flip variety. If I didn't already know that this ball was intended for less than heavy oil conditions, I would think that it is burning out or experiencing roll out. Maybe this cover is a heck of a lot stronger than I suspected, but I wouldn't think that it would be stronger than my Storm 2nd Dimension and Brunswick Wicked Siege for which I had forgotten to mention that I had thrown against the Chainsaw Massacre, again easy through the heads, revved up hard with a very strong turn at the breakpoint.

Looking forward to your replies and remedies,

Pattayabowler

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2011, 06:26:03 AM »

While the CM is certainly not as strong as the 2nd Dimension, it is surely equivalent to the Emerald Vibe and the Sure Strike. That drilling seems fine (I'd tend NOT to put pins at full leverage, but it should have given you the full skid/flip you wanted.) given the way you have the others drilled. I would have expected the CM to certainly react similarly and probably stronger than the Sure Strike (I have one also. Mine is fairly smooth because I put the pin in the ring finger.)

I am kind of at a loss as to why you are getting this reaction. The CM was reviewed by the pro magazines (BTM and BJI) to be just what you described: skid/flip for medium oil.

My only suggestion at this point is to try 2 things:

1. Adjust the surface. Sometimes the stock polish can provide too much skid. Sand it to 1000 or 1500 grit and add a light polish. Then add slightly more polish.

2. If the above fails (easier to adjust the surface than to drill new or more holes), add a flare increasing weight hole, at P3 or P4.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2011, 09:24:41 AM »

While the CM is certainly not as strong as the 2nd Dimension, it is surely equivalent to the Emerald Vibe and the Sure Strike. That drilling seems fine (I'd tend NOT to put pins at full leverage, but it should have given you the full skid/flip you wanted.) given the way you have the others drilled. I would have expected the CM to certainly react similarly and probably stronger than the Sure Strike (I have one also. Mine is fairly smooth because I put the pin in the ring finger.)

I am kind of at a loss as to why you are getting this reaction. The CM was reviewed by the pro magazines (BTM and BJI) to be just what you described: skid/flip for medium oil.

My only suggestion at this point is to try 2 things:

1. Adjust the surface. Sometimes the stock polish can provide too much skid. Sand it to 1000 or 1500 grit and add a light polish. Then add slightly more polish.

2. If the above fails (easier to adjust the surface than to drill new or more holes), add a flare increasing weight hole, at P3 or P4.

I agree, a surface change is probably in order. The OOB finish for some reason seems to be too strong for this house's lane conditions as I feel that the ball rolls out early. It just doesn't seem to get through the heads as easily as I had expected based on the description of this ball. I'm not able to put a weight hole at the P3 or P4 position because the CG ended up above the midline requiring a weight hole on the VAL several inches above my PAP to reduce finger weight. I would have preferred that the driller would have drilled the finger holes deeper to compensate, but maybe it was not possible due to excess top weight and/or side weight I agree with you in that I would prefer to do a surface change versus a plug and redrill at this time. With the shorter Pin, the only other viable drill would be a longer pin to PAP distance, but pin down drilling which I don't think would help to get the ball down lane before it lost energy and I don't think it would give me the skid/flip motion that I desire. I bowl again on Thursday and will give it another chance. If I experience the same problem, I will bring up the grit to a higher level then reapply polish. By the way, does anybody know what final sanding grit is applied to the Chainsaw Massacre at the factory before the polish is applied.

Charlest, thanks for your reply, other comments are welcome.

Pattayabowler

T-GOD · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2011, 10:30:52 AM »

What are the ending statics, side, finger and top, as well as your PAP measurement? From there, we can determine what's needed to give you more backend movement. Please post with this info.

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** May 17, 2011, 11:59:07 AM »

Pattayabowler ,

A hole above the PAP is usually considered a flare reducing hole. That could be part of the problem.

However if you believe it is rolling out, then a finer grit level, like 2000 or 4000 under polish could help. I had thought you were implying it wasn't hooking enough.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #5 on:** May 17, 2011, 09:04:50 PM »

What are the ending statics, side, finger and top, as well as your PAP measurement? From there, we can determine what's needed to give you more backend movement. Please post with this info.

I'm not sure about ending top weight, but the side weight is 1/2 oz with 1/4 oz finger weight. My PAP is 4 1/2 over & 3/4 up. The balance hole is small in diameter, but deep enough to provide the above static weights. It was placed above the midline & above my PAP on the VAL due to the shorter pin to CG length placing the CG above the span midline with this drilling. The ball does have very tight flare rings running around 2 to 2 1/2 inches wide which is similar to my Storm Reign which has a lot of backend hook. The Reign also has a similar weight hole drilled above my PAP on the VAL for the same reason as that of the Chainsaw Massacre, however it is drilled pin up at 45 x 5 x 45 which puts the pin almost above the middle finger.

A hole above the PAP is usually considered a flare reducing hole. That could be part of the problem.

However if you believe it is rolling out, then a finer grit level, like 2000 or 4000 under polish could help. I had thought you were implying it wasn't hooking enough.

I'm not exactly sure if the ball is rolling out or just rolling early. I was watching my 2nd Dimension roll and you could easily see it maintaining it's axis tilt and rotation until around the breakpoint then see a smooth transition into hook and then roll. The Chainsaw Massacre seems to lose its axis tilt and rotation very soon unless I really hit up on the ball and keep my speed up thereby producing more skid then it turns up very quickly with a minimal hook and quickly enters a roll. If I don't put a little extra hand in the ball along with a little more speed, it appears to enter into the roll phase very quickly after going through the heads and has nothing left on the backend. It will produce a little midlane hook in this situation, but again very minimal. This is why I felt that the ball was rolling out as it just stood up too fast when I didn't put a lot of hand in the ball. This really surprised me based on the manufacturers description of this ball. I have my 2nd Dimension surfaced at 360 abralon, 500 abralon followed by polish at 2000 grit and it easily gets through the heads and initiates smooth transition late midlane then revs up at the breakpoint for a strong continuous drive to the pins. The Chainsaw Massacre does not rev up when it reads the friction on the backend. I feel that it has already lost much of it's energy before reaching the breakpoint. I'm kind of feeling that the Chainsaw Massacre is best used with with longer Pin to PAP pin up drills and is best purchased with longer pins. Of course, I already have the ball and definitely want to make it work as best as possible. The ball is in my locker at the bowling center right now. I will give it another try on Thursday and pay closer attention to how it rolls then if need be, I'll bring it home and put it on the spinner for a surface change. In the mean time, I would appreciate any additional suggestions and/or recommendations.

Thanks,

Pattayabowler

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2011, 06:41:42 AM »

I think you see the problem all by yourself. That "full leverage" pin position is just too strong for that ball on the lanes/oil you're bowling on.

1. Try moving deeper to catch more oil before hitting the dry,

or

2. Before redrilling, trying resurfacing: take the cover to P4000 grit and add a good dose of polish. That should add some length, letting it rev up later.

You can always redrill it.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2011, 10:11:58 PM »

UPDATE:

I rolled my Chainsaw Massacre yesterday on fresh medium lanes to further evaluate the ball before making a surface change or a redrill. After intently watching the ball roll down the lanes, I was able to determine that I was mistaken in my first impression that the ball was rolling out or maybe it was the fresh oil. Anyway, what I saw was that the ball just pushed down the lane and was not turning over when encountering friction. It got me thinking that maybe there was too much side weight in the ball that was preventing it from completing the skid, hook and roll phases. I took it back in to the driller and had him weigh the ball again. The CG is above the span midline so the initial balance hole was placed on the VAL about an inch above my PAP. I also had asked that the driller leave a bit of finger weight to help the ball to flip on the backend so he left 1/4 ounce of finger weight. After weighing the ball again, it was determined that there was 3/4 ounce of side weight in the ball. I had the driller remove some of the side weight, but to do so, based on the weight hole location, also removed finger weight. I told him to remove side weight and balance the finger/thumb weight at 0/0. I took the ball back to the lanes and saw an immediate improvement in the roll. The ball is now transitioning from skid, hook to roll. It doesn't have a skid/flip roll; I couldn't match the layout for skid/flip due to the shorter pin to cg, but it does read the dry boards earlier and makes a strong arc movement. When moving a little deeper inside, I was getting a little wiggle in the midlane indicating that the ball cover is a little too strong for the conditions. I think that my next step will be to bring the cover up to a higher grit, maybe 4000 abralon with polish since the bowling center has gotten very stingy with their oil outlay this year. Thanks for everyone's assistance on this forum. The ball is not perfect, but much more usable now than the initial drilling.

Pattayabowler

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #8 on:** June 05, 2011, 12:40:30 PM »

After reading all of this one thing has become quite apparent.....your driller didn't do his homework regarding this ball and your game.

The Massacre series of balls had a very different core and needed to be drilled as such. The flip block on the BOTTOM of the core is heavier than the rest of the core so it is the dominant factor in the dynamic ball motion. Skid/flip layouts on this ball tended to be very mellow while arcy layouts tended to be very angular. Additionally the coverstock is not a super strong pearl like the Boomerang or Blue Death coverstocks.

Pin down with cg out layouts have been the most successful with this core but more specifically this ball in particular. Pin under ring with cg kicked out at 30-45* has been the most successful for my customers.

Try altering the surface by taking it down to 500 and then Rough Buff or similar. If that's too early, hit it back with the 500 for 1 minute then follow with 800 or 1000 for a minute. Keep tinkering with the surface until you get the breakpoint where you want it.

Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop

Turbo XTreme Dealer

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Inverted 1 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2011, 01:41:58 PM »

T-GOD wrote on 5/17/2011 10:30 AM:
What are the ending statics, side, finger and top, as well as your PAP measurement? From there, we can determine what's needed to give you more backend movement. Please post with this info.

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2011, 08:55:12 AM »

Hi Doug,

I'll discussed the information that you have provided me with my ball driller when I return to the bowling center on Thursday; maybe we can look at a plug and redrill. When I first purchased the ball, it appeared to have a 3 inch pin, but when he put it on the scales, the CG was off by a half inch and turned out to be shorter at 2.5 inch which better suits a pin down drilling anyway. Thanks for your input.

Pattayabowler

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2011, 09:51:37 AM »

Doug,

I have a question for you concerning the suggested pin location. I understand the pin under the ring finger, but I would like to know what pin to PAP distance do you equate it. With my 4 1/2 over 3/4 up PAP, a pin placed under the ring finger puts the pin around 3 1/2 inches or so from my PAP. A 4 inch pin to PAP puts the pin under the bridge and 4 1/2 inch under my middle finger. Based on my PAP, what pin to PAP distance would you suggest for a pin under drill for my Chainsaw Massacre? Also, are you basing the 30 to 45 degree CG kicked out on the grip vertical grip centerline?

Thanks again,

Pattayabowler

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #12 on:** June 06, 2011, 07:31:57 PM »

For the "average bowler" with "normal PAP specs" pin under ring normally equates to a 4 to 4-1/2" pin to pap measurement.

For your specs I would get the pin under the bridge.This should be approximately 4-1/2" pin to PAP.

The 30-45* I mention is the angle between the centerline and the pin to CG line.

As I said, try the surface changes first and then go to the plug/redrill as a last resort.

Keep us posted.

Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop

Turbo XTreme Dealer

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