Author Topic: diamond shuffle (Read 6001 times)

omegabowler · « **on:** August 05, 2003, 08:09:26 AM »

So what's next for Lane 1 diamond core. Have they done all they can with a diamond?

Diamond core:
cut top
with a single nugget centered
a single nugget of set
2 mini nuggets
2 mini nuggets stacked
Bomb core
Super bomb core

What's next?
Bomb core with 1 nugget centered
bomb core with 1 nugget offset
bomb core with a nugget offset to the side to create a stronger MB

above with Just a diamond core
above with a side of the Diamond cut off for an asymmetrical ball

how about 2 smaller diamonds stacked

Lane 1 Just another ball of the month club?

--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2003, 09:14:36 AM »

Omega,

Let me address the ball of the month club question first...How long has it been since Lane 1 released a ball? The last 2 balls released were the Cherry Bomb and the XXXL. They were released in March and February respectively. They have released no balls since then. Ball of the month club? I can't see how that label fits here.

As for what's next, I can't say. What I can say is that Lane 1 does enough research and testing to be sure that what they bring out is what they want. I have seena a lot of "new and improved" balls come out from other companies that are just like the ones they replaced.

But just to throw ideas around....what about...

**a single massively dense diamond bigger than the silver core but smaller than the XL core?

**if above mentioned diamond was set high in the ball? low in the ball?

**a Bomb core with a single nugget set low to promote early flare?

**the Blueberry core with a particle pearl coverstock?

**the Cherry Bomb with a dull urethane cover?

**the Silver D core set low with a pancake flip block on the top to compete with the Scouts, Big Hits, tornados, etc?

**the Viper core turned sideways to create a mass bias?

Richie has lots of options let when it comes to creating the upcoming Buzzsaws. All we can do is offer our support and suggestions. For those of you that have not become mebers, go onto lane1's site and check out their forums. Ther eis a specific forum where you can post your suggestions for the next Buzzsaw.

--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Think about it....pins are wood, lanes are wood...
the weapon of choice is obvious...
CUT 'EM UP BABY it's BUZZSAW TIME!!!

Edited on 8/6/2003 9:32 AM

omegabowler · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2003, 10:07:00 AM »

Ball of the month maybe not but they are doing the same thing. just slower.It seams every new buzzsaw is a must have.

were is the all mighty Bomb core? the Carbide Bomb was released, what last year,18 months. gone. fiddle some more and now the Super bomb core.actually did it make it a full year? what about the pearl bomb?

Yet all Buzzheads complain when other companies do this,they just do it faster because they sell more balls. If I liked my carbide bomb and wore it out I have to find it stocked somewhere, after 18 months from introduction.

How is that all that different from bigger companies?

I would like to see what Buzzheads think about a new core line up, in what appears, to be every year?

keep in mind I not ripping the Buzzsaws. I think there fine balls and may yet wind up with a few in my bag again.

I'm in the middle of both camps, Love'em or hate'em. The hate'em groups opinion is easy. not worth the price. But I have observed 2 main counter arguments. Buzzsaw hit harder and they don't mass produce new balls.

I won't argue about hit. different balls Hit differently. some combo of shell, core, ball speed,revs,rotation, tilt and hook shape will suite some people.

I just would like to hear a more sound opinion about mix and match core/covers and tweaks in lane 1 vs. BIG Ball co's.

--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

T-GOD · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2003, 11:39:34 AM »

Omega, what would you like Lane 1 to do..? Have more balls in their line..? Come out with different shape cores..? The diamond core is proven, so I like their integrety. I'm sure the core can be tweaked, reacting different enough to act like other cores on the market, but only better. Do you want Lane 1 to be in the ball of the month club, just like the big ball co's..? =:^D

omegabowler · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2003, 11:51:30 AM »

T-GOD,

I guess your statement is the question I would like to have answered

quote:
so I like their integrity

what does that mean?

I have more questions but that may answer them all.
--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

Edited on 8/6/2003 12:01 PM

T-GOD · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2003, 12:15:21 PM »

Omega, I believe they have proven, at least to themselves, that the diamond core is the strongest core/generates the more energy. So, they stick to what they believe in, and use the basic diamond shape in all their balls. This show's integrity.

Whereas all the big co's try to sell a different shape core in all their balls and keep saying that "this one is the best/better". To me, that's a bunch of baloney. =:^D

Edited on 8/6/2003 12:25 PM

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2003, 12:21:13 PM »

I can speak to the integrity issue....

Lane 1 does not put out a ball unless it is significantly different or better than what they already have.

The Super Carbide has come and gone..why? The Super Carbide Bomb is simply better.

The Green Bomb is gone...why? It was a dud for most bowlers and between the Cherry Bomb and Blueberry, this slot was covered.

The Pearl Bomb is on it's way out....why? the core design of the Cherry Bomb allows more versatility and more options for different reactions.

Lane 1 simply does it's homework. When we visited Lane 1 Richie asked me and SawMill what we thoughtt hey needed in their line. We both said middle of the road solid resin and a dry lane ball. How many other ball companies actually listen to what the visitors of their websites have to say?

They are not just putting out balls for the sake of something new to sell. I remember when Storm intriduced the El Nino...WOW!!!! BIG NEWS!!!! How long was it until the Wrath came about??? Quite awhile...then it was big news again. It's big news when Lane 1 brings out something because they are not releasing balls every 3 weeks.

I remember the Brunswick Zone days...there were more flops in that line than in a cow pasture!!!! Why? Too many balls, too fast and people could not keep up. Or they tried to keep up and got burned by something that didn't do what they said it did because not enough R&D goes on.

Every company produces good balls that should never be remoived from their lines....

Brunswick....Danger Zone, Inferno
Columbia...Beast, Cuda/C, SPirit
Hammer....3-D Hi Rev
Ebonite...turbo X, Nitro/R2
Lane 1...Blueberry, Cherry Pearl C2
Storm...Eraser, tour Power
Visionary...Green gargoyle, Orange Warlock
Track...VooDoo, Hex

Lane 1 makes the best balls I have seen. Overall they are more expensive per ball BUT I have found that you need fewer balls to cover the conditions. It's real easy to get a 4 ball arsenal with Lane 1 to cover it all.

XXL, Cherry Bomb, Blueberry and Super Bomb...should cover it all.

See more dry? Delete the Super Bomb and add the Emerald or Silver Diamond.

That's my take on things...not getting defensive but the more I use their stuff the more convinced I am that they are either at or one rung down from the top of the heap.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Think about it....pins are wood, lanes are wood...
the weapon of choice is obvious...
CUT 'EM UP BABY it's BUZZSAW TIME!!!

Strider · « **Reply #7 on:** August 06, 2003, 12:47:07 PM »

quote:
I can speak to the integrity issue....

Lane 1 does not put out a ball unless it is significantly different or better than what they already have.

The Super Carbide has come and gone..why? The Super Carbide Bomb is simply better.

The Green Bomb is gone...why? It was a dud for most bowlers and between the Cherry Bomb and Blueberry, this slot was covered.

The Pearl Bomb is on it's way out....why? the core design of the Cherry Bomb allows more versatility and more options for different reactions.

Just a few quick comments. If they don't put out a ball that is significantly different or better than what they already have, then why do they keep releasing the Raspberry/Blueberry/Cranberry. If it's good, leave it there. Why discontinue and re-release? Same goes with the Cherry/Emerald.

Did they not do their homework with the Green Bomb? I know it wasn't popular. I thought the Pearl Bomb was well liked. Is the Cherry Bomb really significantly better/different?

I didn't have very good luck with Lane #1, but they seem to have all the basics covered. Super Carbide Bomb, Black or regular Cherry Bomb, Blueberry, Viper, XL or Silver, and the XXXL should cover everything anyone should see.
--------------------
Penn State Proud

omegabowler · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2003, 12:47:23 PM »

so nice you had to say it twice?

I missed those years with the zones and storms.

what bring this up for me was the topic of whose company has the best line ups.
I started looking at my favorite companies and noticed that lane 1 seamed to have slipped in stability of balls.

how could the Blueberry be gone when everyone like it? how could such great research ( and marketing dollars) be blown on the bombs?

I see that there X line and Super BOMB line complement each other. but what about the rest? C,C2,new c offset? how long will these last.

where are they going with there line up?

are they going to do 3 price beaks like all the big boys?

are they going for different reactions? Skid/flip,late arc, mid lane arc?

they seam to be in flux from those not "in the know". and I don't think guy's who claim to be "in the know" know all that is going on either.

quote:
Lane 1 does not put out a ball unless it is significantly different or better than what they already have

how significantly different or better is the cranberry than the blueberry or silver diamond and XL ? are we talking 2 boards,2 feet?
so is that really integrity?
that falls in line with the big guys. a ball for every 3 boards.

They listen and that is great, no questioning that. not many big companies have dry lane equipment that is 2 piece. I just see there line up in some kind of transition for everything but the X and super bomb.

--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

Saw Mill · « **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2003, 01:19:06 PM »

Omega,

Also, what has NOT been addressed is the fact that when a "new" and/or "better" ball does come out (like the Cranberry), they usually REMOVE a ball from their line, if that ball is NOT needed. What is their line now:

Super Carbide Bomb

Black Cherry Bomb

Cherry Bomb

Cranberry (to replace Blueberry), which is supposed to be signifiv=cantly better than BB, and we will all see when the testing is done, and I trust Richie and Chuck and their testing crew.

Emerald

Silver Diamond

XXL (possibly to replace the XL)

XXXL

What is that 8 balls, 9 if they keep the XL? Name me another "popular" company, of the top three or four, that have that few balls in their Line or less; let me help you NONE OF THEM. Storm, Brunswick, and Columbia flood their lines with a ball or 2 each month, and the funky changes to their cores makes it hard for non-proshop people to understand their setup. Also, noone has answered Doug's question of a company, MUCH LESS THE OWNERS, askin and listening to their users opinions. Richies asked us what we thought, and we said a TRUE light/dry ball, and TAH DA, we have the Urathane XXL. I do not bash any other company, for they have good balls in their lines, but the Diamond core, and any variation (and from Doug;s list and other's) Lane 1 still has many more options for even better balls. Also, it is proven by the law of physics, that the Diamond core be as symetrical as it is, makes it store energy and hit harder than any other core, without making it look like something Dr. Frankenstien created.

Dave

--------------------
If You Are Not the Lead SAW, All You Get is SAWdust!!

Edited on 8/6/2003 1:33 PM

Edited on 8/6/2003 1:34 PM

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2003, 01:21:49 PM »

Strider....

Changing the pink Raspberry to the black Raspberry is a given. The ball didn't sell so they simply changed the color.

Going from the Black Raspberry to the Blueberry was not only a color change but I do believe a core change as well. I believe the old C2 core had the diamonds separated while the new C2 core has the diamonds stacked together. The Cherry PEarl and the Emerald was the same issue. The Cherry had the diamonds separated while the Emerlad has them stacked. This is the reason for the Emerald not having the booming backend of the Cherry possessed.

The cranberry is a different core altogether.

The Green Bomb was not as versatile as people wanted and with the new core shape the drillers had issues getting the ball to react like people wanted. It was very tame for a particle when compared to the HPH's etc. It didn't read the midlane very well. The core had too much differential for the coverstock.

The Pearl Bomb is a well liked ball for most but the reaction you obtain from it can easily be duplicated by the Blueberry or Cherry Bomb. The same problem that plagued the Green Bomb in the midlane showed up here too.

The new Bomb core (with the mini-diamonds) gets the ball rolling sooner in the midlane and makes the ball stronger overall. I think the original Bomb core would be good with a reactive cover but the "rolling" particle cover didnt match the "go long and turn" core design.

--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Think about it....pins are wood, lanes are wood...
the weapon of choice is obvious...
CUT 'EM UP BABY it's BUZZSAW TIME!!!

Saw Mill · « **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2003, 01:42:44 PM »

What is happening here is that a company is producing a great product, and due to having a lot of overhead because they are small (i.e. make the core, ship to brunswick, then ship back to Lane 1, etc...) the price is higher than others, so people WANT the product, BUT whine about the price. When they can't or won't (more of the latter than the first), they start to find ways to bash the company or its product. Heck, I am willing to bet that there are many bowlers that even if they could afford the balls, would be to "cheap", to be willing to part with that money for them. You can't argue with results, and my scores have jumped (and yes I will shoot bad ones with Lane 1 too) since using Saws. Those who have tried them and yet have seen not so great results, we all know that there is not company that will match up with every bowler. Lane 1 is an Elite product, and is benchmark company.

Dave
--------------------
If You Are Not the Lead SAW, All You Get is SAWdust!!

Edited on 8/6/2003 1:53 PM

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2003, 01:54:48 PM »

Sorry I guess nobody ever had a glitch where the system didn't respond so they went back and hit send again....

Anyway....

quote:
lane 1 seamed to have slipped in stability of balls

Why mess with what works? Why do companies continue to search for ways to meake the proverbial "better mousetrap?" They are serving the bowling public well by not flooding the market with balls that have massive overlap (ie Columbia and Storm and Track)

quote:
how could the Blueberry be gone when everyone like it?

With the advent of the Cranberry and the Black Cherry Bomb, there is no need for the BB anymore. Let's face it...the concept of "new" does sell bowling balls but Lane 1 has the intelligence to remove something from their line so as not to confuse the bowlers. And as has been proven, if the bowlers ask, they will reintroduce the ball. They did bring back both the Viper and Silver Diamond.

quote:
I see that there X line and Super BOMB line complement each other. but what about the rest? C,C2,new c offset? how long will these last.where are they going with there line up?

The X line is designed as their lighter oil line. The Bomb line is their heavier oil line. The C and C2 line are their everyday, normal league shot balls.

quote:
are they going to do 3 price beaks like all the big boys?

They have 3 separate lines BUT where they differ from the rest is that there are not balls in each line for dry, medium and heavy oil patterns. The X's are for lighter, the Bombs for heavier and the C's and in the middle.

quote:
are they going for different reactions? Skid/flip,late arc, mid lane arc?

That is generally the point...you release differnt balls for different reactions. Match the core with coverstock for a specified reaction. No need to do it with 3 different cores.

quote:
how significantly different or better is the cranberry than the blueberry or silver diamond and XL? are we talking 2 boards,2 feet?

We all know the answer to this question already...depends on the bowler and the lane conditions. Mo Pinel said it best....in today's game, how much a ball hooks does not matter. Where that hooking action takes place is what matters. By altering the core geometry you can alter the reaction either significantly or slightly through drill pattern and coverstock alteration.

quote:
so is that really integrity?

Yes....it is. The same basic core shape holds true in every one of their balls. That tells me they have full and total confidence in their original design and slight modifications will keep them in competition with the big boys.

quote:
ball for every 3 boards.

Not quite...they have a 9 ball set up and that only covers 27 boards...there are 40 on a lane

JUST KIDDING !!!!!!!

quote:
I see there line up in some kind of transition for everything but the X and super bomb.

At least their sole purpose in life isn't to see how many boards they can cover by generating hook monster after hook monster after hook monster (ahem...Track).

Love them or hate them, Lane 1 is doing a large service to the bowling community by giving bowlers unclouded choices. This helps the bowler choose, the driller drill and then the bowler decide which ball to use on what condition.

My average in our scratch league matched the average from my handicap house league because I was able to transition from ball to ball much easier thanks to the integrity and consistency of the cores.

I am speaking from experience here...they are the most responsive company I have dealt with. They ask for, listen to and then actually use the suggestions they are given. I believe......period.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Think about it....pins are wood, lanes are wood...
the weapon of choice is obvious...
CUT 'EM UP BABY it's BUZZSAW TIME!!!

A_P_K · « **Reply #13 on:** August 06, 2003, 02:01:46 PM »

I'll grant you that Lane 1 isn't for everyone, but that also doesn't mean it is going to get you to the next level either. I wouldn't even consider it to be an elite product, no different than anything else on the market. The balls will hook when you want them too, they will hit hard if thrown right, and leave solid 7-10 splits if the ball squirts in oil. As a matter of fact, I have never left as many pocket 7-10 or 4-10 splits as I have with Lane 1.

I believe that Lane 1 equipment was designed for a certain type of bowler. I am reaching here but it's been said that people who like to flip or spin their balls will have a tougher time using the Diamond Core. Which would bring me to say that I don't mix well with their equpiment.

In no way am I trying to bash the company because I still own a Super Carbide, which I use when my other equipment is drowning, but that is a very condition specific ball and doesn't see much use anymore.

--------------------
Pin_Krusher, formerly Divine Dragon.....a.k.a...The Littleboy with a neutron bomb

Drastically inflicting pin punishing destruction, and doing it with...................well a Drastic!!

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #14 on:** August 06, 2003, 02:27:11 PM »

Wow!!!! Someone who says that maybe the balls just don't match up with their style...hmm....could it be??? I have personally tried to throw the Icons and I cannot get any kind of consistent reaction there.

That's true Pin Krusher. People with really low tracks (spinners) don't tend to like Lane 1 stuff unless some changes are made to the drillings.

I am not a low tracker but I had issues with some balls I had gotten used with my first Lane 1 foray. I drilled up an XL the same way I had my Trauma done and they reacted exactly the same! I was hoping that the lower flaring core of the XL would give me a mellower reaction but it gave me the same.

The diamond core does have a tendency to roll more and not have the big flip blocks on it to help snap out the corners. As I said, an alteration in drill pattern usually cures this.

They are a different creature and they can create a feast or famine scenario for many bowlers. I think this is what Dave menas when he speaks of them being an Elite Product...a good bowler will benefit from the technology but an average bowler may or may not. It could actually hurt a lesser skilled bowler due to the dynamics of the reaction. A skilled bowler will appreciate the ball and what it can do for them.

Lane 1 balls are definitely not "game in a box" and some people think that the more you pay, the better your game will get but that is not the case.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Think about it....pins are wood, lanes are wood...
the weapon of choice is obvious...
CUT 'EM UP BABY it's BUZZSAW TIME!!!

Author Topic: diamond shuffle (Read 6001 times)

omegabowler

diamond shuffle

Doug Sterner

Re: diamond shuffle

omegabowler

Re: diamond shuffle

T-GOD

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omegabowler

Re: diamond shuffle

T-GOD

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Doug Sterner

Re: diamond shuffle

Strider

Re: diamond shuffle

omegabowler

Re: diamond shuffle

Saw Mill

Re: diamond shuffle

Doug Sterner

Re: diamond shuffle

Saw Mill

Re: diamond shuffle

Doug Sterner

Re: diamond shuffle

A_P_K

Re: diamond shuffle

Doug Sterner

Re: diamond shuffle