Author Topic: Drilling a Silver Diamond (Read 3718 times)

Horse Tooth · « **on:** November 12, 2003, 04:34:54 PM »

I have someone throwing a Silver Diamond and unfortunately the ball
is going long, too long. Drilled with the pin about 1" above the center of the
bridge and the CG just outside to the right of the center of the grip.
My bowlers throws above average speed and above average revs. He just can't get any area with this drilling. He is looking to have at least 3-4 boards to play with if he misses. Can anyone suggest a drilling, from their previous experience with this ball that will work well in this situation?
The lanes are brand new sythetics, dry outside medium oil in the middle.
Any help is greatly appreciated. If you need additional information please let me know.
--------------------
Todd Ginter
Todd@DandRsProShop.com

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2003, 08:27:50 AM »

Above avg speed and above average revs for a true diamond-cored Lane#1 ball usually calls for the safety drill: pin at 4" from PAP, & CG around 3" from PAP. His above avg speed would, I'd guess, call for the pin below the bridge, or if he's a high tracker, then the pin at least on the line between ring finger and his PAP.

If this drilling doesn't give him enough area, I wouldn't re-drill it but I'd sand the ball to 600 smooth and put a light shine on it. His speed in relation to the amount of oil will govern how rough the surface has to be.

------
Side comment:
For a ball with such a mild core (don't care what the Lane#1 fanatics say, this is a MILD core.) and for a higher avg speed bowler, I am slightly surprised the initial drill had the pin above the bridge, UNLESS the lanes were fairly dry. Far too many people these days seem to start with the initial assumption that they will be putting the pin above the bridge.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

Horse Tooth · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2003, 08:48:47 AM »

Charlest,
Thanks for the reply as it will be most helpful.
I agree with the pin above the bridge. I personally will
keep the pin below the fingers or in line with the PAP.
Thanks again for your reply.
--------------------
Todd Ginter
Todd@DandRsProShop.com

BuzzsawMike · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2003, 11:25:41 AM »

I have found for myself and many others I've drilled for that if you do a stack leverage (with pin (2-3 inches long) directly 1.75 inch right of CG line and right of ring finger) it gives the ball the length needed to really get the ball down the lane red the midlane and then boom! I've drilled lots of my own stuff that way and love it. Private Message me if you have any questions or would like to see a pic of the layout. The Silver is my first ball out of the bag.
--------------------
Mike Savoia
Lane #1 / Vise Pro Staff
Area 300 Pro Shop
http://www.techcitybowl.com

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2003, 12:08:10 PM »

quote:
I don't wish start with anyone on the strength of the diamond core or anyother
buzzsaw core, but since they're all the same diamond core with variations and so many have posted of the hard roll and hit of this line, I can only wonder what one would call mild vs. strong.
I do know the short time I've had mine which has pin below fingers, using on lightly oiled lines with outside angle with a milder release and matched against several other med. aggresive balls I have, this one hits the hardest. No question!
--------------------
Don B

A core with an RG range of 2.527 to 2.557, with only an RG differential of .028 MUST be considered a mild core. Regarding hardest hitting, that is the result of the match up of the core, the cover, the drilling, the oil pattern AND the bowler's release. If that combination has produced good results for you, then wonderful. The Power Koil 18 cover on the Silver Diamond is one of the strongest, if not the strongest resin covers currently available. As modified by pearlization and polish and used with this mild core, the PK 18 coverstock can retain energy very well, indeed.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

Saw Mill · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2003, 03:31:35 PM »

I agree with Charles, the 4x3 layout will be strong. Before plugging and drilling, you may want to scotch-brite it to 420 grit, and polish. My silver is laid out at 5 1/2 x 4 1/2, with the pin about 1/4" above bridge, and is scotch-brited too 420. This ball is a monster on light oil, and can handle med/light, if there are some dry boards. Todd, if yopu check out my profile, you will see that I am where your bowlers are, and this layout is strong enough. What kind of condition are they trying to use it on. Med/light would need the 4x3, and the pin somwhere near the 3 o'clock position to the ring finger, with the cg kicked right. Let us know what you go with, and how it works.

Dave (aka Mister C)

--------------------
If You Are Not Using a BuzzSaw, All You Get is SAW-dusted!!

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2003, 09:00:00 PM »

quote:
Charlest: good info but I was under the impression the Power koil 18 cover from Brunswick was fairly new and the diamond the first of Dynathanes balls or at least a much earlier one??
--------------------
Don B

The Power Koil 18 coverstock was first used on the original Brunswick Danger Zone made in 1996 (could be 1997). FWIW I hated the Danger ZOne, but have gron to love PK 18 if it is briought under some control like the Fire Quantum and the Silver Diamond, with a 4x3 drilling.

Not sure what you mean about "the diamond the first of Dynathanes balls or at least a much earlier one". Dynothane, before it was bought by Storm in 1999, had the majority of its balls made by Columbia and a few by Storm, btu not by Brunswick.

--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

T-GOD · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2003, 09:43:30 AM »

quote:
A core with an RG range of 2.527 to 2.557, with only an RG differential of .028 MUST be considered a mild core.

First we must define what a mild core is. Numbers alone won't tell us what is weak or strong. That's the problem every has. If you put a baseball like and size higher density core and displace it off center enough, the differential will be on the higher side. And, the RG #'s will fall into roughly the same range. So, does that mean the core is strong, based on the numbers..?

No. Because a round ball going around the inside of another round ball, will not generate the same force as a diamond rotating around the center of a ball. The same holds true for any other shape. RG and Diff. numbers are static numbers, not "gyroscopic force numbers" generated from putting the cores in motion.

So, in reality, the numbers all the manufacturers are giving you don't tell the real story..!!

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2003, 10:01:42 AM »

T-God,

Due to the incredible number of variables involved with cores, covers, bowlers and oil, I cannot believe we can assign strengths to cores, in and of themselves. Because of the sheer number of variables, we can only draw the most vague generalities regarding whether we like a core as it works with certain drillings and ad with certain coverstocks.

On an absolute scale, I must believe the numbers define a core, as a manufacturer gives its specifications. As such, this core, while it may work great with Brunswick's coverstocks for a percentage of the bowling population, has to be placed on the milder side of the 50% range of core strength.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

T-GOD · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2003, 12:27:21 PM »

Charles, I guess you didn't understand a word I said. What does strong or weak mean..? Just because the Diff is high, does that mean the core is strong..? What about the spin rate..? Just because it's low, does that mean the core is strong..?

Real strength is measured by gyroscopic force..!! The more gyroscopic force generated and stored at impact upon the pins, tells me if the core is strong or weak, not a bunch of static numbers. =:^D

A_P_K · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2003, 12:51:50 PM »

To step in here ever so slightly, I see what T-GOD is talking about, this isn't a Lane 1 ball but the numbers of it would indicate a fairly weak ball overall, when I can assure you it's far from that.

The Visionary Blue Gryphon stores up a tremendous amount of energy going down the lane, hitting the pins hard, breaking up a ton of terrible hits. Alot of hits that look like nasty splits end up carrying strikes because of what I would describe as "core power".

Visionary also stated they reduced the DIF in order to save more energy when entering the pocket for improved carry potential. They also called this their most forgiving ball ever made, on the lanes and in the pocket.

As far as hook potential and flare potential are concerned, the ball would be considered "weak" in comparison to other balls with similar numbers, but to me this is one of the strongest cores I've ever used.=:^D

--------------------
"It is Origin...the pure embodiment of power!"

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:59:16 PM »

quote:
Charles, I guess you didn't understand a word I said. What does strong or weak mean..? Just because the Diff is high, does that mean the core is strong..? What about the spin rate..? Just because it's low, does that mean the core is strong..?

Real strength is measured by gyroscopic force..!! The more gyroscopic force generated and stored at impact upon the pins, tells me if the core is strong or weak, not a bunch of static numbers. =:^D

No, as you can tell by all my posts, I'm just another moron around here.

As I said ... oh, wait, it doesn't make any difference what I said.

-------

I'm afraid I'll have to go by the current measurements until the manufacturers add GF (Gyroscopic force) to the core specifications. Maybe Lane#1 will be the first to add it.

--------

Until there are measurements other than RG differential and MB differential and RG, those will have to be the physical measurements as the "strength" of a core, if such strength can be gauged.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

T-GOD · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2003, 09:33:50 PM »

quote:
Due to the incredible number of variables involved with cores, covers, bowlers and oil, I cannot believe we can assign strengths to cores, in and of themselves.

quote:
On an absolute scale, I must believe the numbers define a core

Charles, you're saying 2 different things here. First you say you can't assign strengths in and of themselves, then you say you must believe the numbers. You can't have it both ways. =:^D

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2003, 10:21:56 PM »

I agree with TGod on this.

For whatever reason the lower diff Silver Diamond is a very strong ball.

Very similar(but different) from the Battle Zone Bullet. Certainly a very strong go long pearl, that has the apparently same coverstock(Powercoil) and
the BZ Bullet has much higher diff numbers.

However most would say the balls are similar in strength but different in look/or movement on the lanes!

REgards,

Luckylefty

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** November 15, 2003, 12:30:51 AM »

quote:
quote:
Due to the incredible number of variables involved with cores, covers, bowlers and oil, I cannot believe we can assign strengths to cores, in and of themselves.

quote:
On an absolute scale, I must believe the numbers define a core
Charles, you're saying 2 different things here. First you say you can't assign strengths in and of themselves, then you say you must believe the numbers. You can't have it both ways. =:^D

The "we" was us as bowlers. "We" decide we like a core and thus we decide it is strong.

Manufacturers assign the numbers based on measurements.

When they have a gyroscopic strength number, we can add them to our decison making process, instead of using, "Oh, Gee I like that ball; therefore that core must be strong!"
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

Author Topic: Drilling a Silver Diamond (Read 3718 times)

Horse Tooth

Drilling a Silver Diamond

charlest

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

Horse Tooth

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

BuzzsawMike

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

charlest

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

Saw Mill

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

charlest

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

T-GOD

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

charlest

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

T-GOD

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

A_P_K

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

charlest

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

T-GOD

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

LuckyLefty

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond

charlest

Re: Drilling a Silver Diamond