Author Topic: H2O - headache (Read 1761 times)

Grayson · « **on:** July 01, 2008, 08:24:28 AM »

little rant.... RANT ON

I ran today into the following problem:

the new center around here is "proud" to have the most ugly walled THS in the whole country of Germany as it seems (at least the staff is proud of changing the pattern into the *i don't say it!* they lay out now:

inside you have tons of oil... so much my Machine skids.
outside the first five boards are bone dry ... so I can hook my XXXL (well carry is the other question) )

My H2O is giving my always o/u... on every line I tried and that was from "down'n'in" to "play it tight" (I can not hook it unless I slow down and then carry is ...crap... again) with no good result

Now you might say... hey! Why complain! your Machine works!

YEAH! RIGHT... but I fear... the lanes will dry up over time... then the ball starts to burn up again like it does on the outside.. now you might say
Hey! then you pull out the H2O! Wrong.... carrydown! H2O not good on carrydown.. H2O hate carrydown.

so I move out of the carrydown with the H2O?... OH! Hook'a'lotty through the nose!... again!

I am going crazy on those lanes...

ok the Machine is an option I admit. I can go deep and let it move... it simply moves with a nice arc then into the pocket and carry is very good.

But I fear ... and I know I my fear is justified... that in official league
4 vs 4
4 games
I will search for every little itsy bits oily spot to avoid my Machine burning up.

the XXXL you say then.... HA! the ball doesn't carry (doesn't like any carrydown... and there is plenty off carrydown with that pattern!).. unless I play 100% pocket shots.
Why? Cause I drilled it label

.. NAH! That was just for Zeus

I like the challenge... just that my H2O is not the right ball as it seems.

any tips on Coverstock preps are welcome

I also am considering moving the weighthole up to reduce flare (it is drilled stacked and moves like crazx on the backend... if the condition is like that there)

a redrill is not an option cause I know the ball is good... maybe I am not good enough for the ball

RANT OFF
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won''t fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2008, 05:13:15 PM »

knock down the shine it will handle carrydown much better. Did not like that ball sold it off within weeks of getting back when it first came out. The HRG is much better ball for the same lane conditions.

louie · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2008, 05:19:21 PM »

The key to a walled up shot is to start inside and feed the ball into the dry. Miss right and it comes back. Pull it and it holds. Try diferent balls with different surfaces until you find the combo that gives you the most area and the best carry. This is usually a polished reactive for a cranker, and a dull solid reactive for a stroker.
Don't fight the oil by playing right. Let the wall work for you.
I have an H2o and it's the most sensitive ball I've thrown in a long time. Sometimes it hooks and sometimes it sits. I played with it for a couple weeks and then ditched it. Lane 1 makes many good balls, but that one was a stinker for many.
--------------------

Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?

louie

Edited on 7/1/2008 5:22 PM

Sawuser · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2008, 05:21:46 PM »

If it is such an over under, wet dry shot, try a pin axis drilling & play up the outside dry boards.
--------------------
Wayne
HARDCORE FOS

Buzzhead · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:41:25 PM »

I just tonight drilled my NIB, pearl Uranium for this VERY condition. I threw an Evolution drilled the same way. Pin is 1" above my pap. small weight hole to bring back to legal... I am hoping this will be the ball. I fight majorly with over under, on my house shot. It seemed like I had around 10 boards I could hit the pocket with the evo, so I drilled a ball like it. I have an evo too, but way way to much backend.... I hope this pearl U is tamer than my hrg drilled label. I REALLY really hated punching this ball up.. but.... I love my Pearl with the stronger layout on it, so I did it.
I will report back..
--------------------
FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!

Ten pin?

?? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...

Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2008, 10:00:20 AM »

I know the problem, I have a house near by at Oberhausen that puts down a nasty THS. Easy to play, but over/under hell because it is not the cleanest lane and the new lane surface offers lots of grip. The lane is not diffilcut to play, but it is hard to find a good ball/surface/line combo that yields a good feeling.

I'd also try surface changes before anything else - knocking off the polish is a good way to start, and I'd suggest a 4.000 Abralon Finish that should offer a good compromise between length and control. The latter improved dramatically on some balls I tried it on. If the ball is still squirty, try 2.000, and so on.

Another option, if length is an issue, is IMHO 3M's Finesse-It II compound. On a high grit base (4.000 Abralon) it leaves a shiny ball that looks polished, but has a clean/pure surface that is tacky as hell.
I found this finish to be very effective when polished balls are too nervous. The reaction is still sharp, but the breakpoint control is much enhanced without sacrificing length, and the tacky surface improves pin carry, too. The stuff is just hard to get in Germany, and expensive...
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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Grayson · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2008, 12:20:18 PM »

right now the ball is at 1000 which seems to grab the lane too early... will try to go up and see how it rolls then
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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Grayson · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2008, 03:51:19 PM »

I need to apologize..

first towards the H2O which is absolutly innocent

then to the lane staff... the layout was not their idea as I found out but the idea of the local club members that use that center as homeground...

and I found out what layout they use... by taking a look... by throwing the right ball like I should (Machine kept tight with more speed taking advantage of the inside oil and the strong backend)...and actually asking about the graph of the pattern

they layout is as follows:

38ft of medium-heavy oil

the first 3 feet the oil is like on a ths then the first five boards are just blank! No real oil... of course there is a bit of oil... but just for lane protection... that's why I can play my XXXL there with such a big hook

then the inner boards... 6R-6L is pure oil... just a block of oil till ft 38 with just a little buff till 38ft no blend... just a block!

phew... no wonder the H2O never worked.

It resposes so strong to any dry board it is futile to play the ball on fresh lanes there though the lanes seem dry outside and on those strong backends...

but inside... the lanes is oily as can be... so the transfer from wet to dry is so sudden the H2O gives no room for error at all!

I played the Machine today... from standing 30 sending the ball to ten (STAY away from the ouside.,.. never get into the dry!) and watch is grab on the midlane till the end of the pattern and then just make the 7 boards towards the pocket... plus I increased speed and shot a very good 187 average (5 games) with a lowgame of 155 and a highgame of 211! (I generated room... even as much as I have at the older center.)

Once I knew the part of the lane I had to play and how to adjust with speed and hook (no need for a big hook there! the ball will make its turn on the backend for sure!) it all worked out.
So... trying to use the H2O on those lanes while they are fresh it is just a dumb user error! MY ERROr!

Thanks for any tips!

so... now the story:

I saw the club president (of the club that has chosen that center as new homeground) while leaving as he went to his car (not my club... we have the old center as homeground) and shouted to him: "Nice tricky oil you have there!" (with a friendly and joking voice!).

Now you must know that this club left the old center as there has been a "conflict" in house league... but I was not involved! I even didn't know what had happened etc. All I knew was there was shouting etc.... childish from what I heard... but:

so this team left the house league and as the teamcaptain is the club president of one of the local clubs it seems that he took the whole club with him.
so... I shouted to him the above statement and got this as answer with a rather harsh and aggressive voice:
"That is NOT our oil! Wait till autumn then you will see a tricky oil!"

fishy...

well nevertheless all people at the old center are used to play down and in... I do as well there... best way to play those lanes.
When they get at the new center there and play that line as they are use to do they will get o/u (as I did) to the max.
all play shiny pearl balls with big backend hook setup (weak backends at the old house... BWB, TNV, one plays an AI... but most balls are rather weaker coverstocks for down and in with strong backend hooks...)... but you need a smooth roller to play suffcient at the new center

and when they really change the oil completely then for winter league (which is an official league!) it will get real funny as all people I know don't train there... they stay at the old house.
And I bet they will suck then in winter!

Well... I will sent out a warning and how to attack those lanes... I shot two 200 today and that is very good right now for me.

story will continue

cya
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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Edited on 7/4/2008 3:52 PM

Grayson · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2008, 02:57:57 PM »

well they keep playing cat and mouse with me....

last time they layed out their standart Christmas tree 38ft. believe me it is closer to a THS than the 38ft "block" but when I play out too early the ball burns up... so the "bumper" is not actually a bumper but a nice "sticky" area for my stronger balls (particle pearl and solid) whereas my pearl reactive meant for dry is not strong enough.... I guess the best way would be a nice smooth drilled normal solid but I don't have one and my pearl particle and Solid work as long as I keep it in the oil.

Well I fear the league honestly... NAH! just a bit... the pearl particle does the job and has more lenght.

So my strategy right now is use my solid particle till I have no oil and then switch tomy pearl particle or even my weak pearl and see what goes.

cya...
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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Edited on 7/13/2008 3:39 PM

rkj4243 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2008, 08:18:14 PM »

That seems to be a condition that I get in my league at this time. I have been using a Teal THS, drilled pin high over ring, cg in palm, with polish on the ball. Rolls smooth and still finishes as oil carries down. I do move left over the course of the night, but not too far inside from original starting point. Try a piece with a more controlled, lenght drilling for you.

Brian Green · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2008, 10:42:42 PM »

try taking the shine off the h20 with like 1000 grit that should smooth out the over under
--------------------
"USAbowlersmart.com - only the best Survive"

JessN16 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2008, 12:18:46 AM »

Polished solids tend to work well for me on these type of shots. I only go to pearls when the head oil starts wearing out. The polished solids tend to blend things very well.

Jess

Grayson · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2008, 02:59:41 AM »

quote:
try taking the shine off the h20 with like 1000 grit that should smooth out the over under
--------------------
"USAbowlersmart.com - only the best Survive"

already done that and seen the H2O work better as soon as the conditions are "dried" enough

the oil is just too much on their "block" and not enough with the christmas tree. At least when the lanes are fresh.

The Machine is working as well as the C+ ... the H2O should be able to take over after the first set of games. I will see then.

the problem is that I haven't had a chance to test the H2O on realistic conditions yet... when we were training there, we almost always were less people than would play in league.
Result... carrydown and wear of the pattern is not as it will be in league.

The Carbide+ is doing the job on fresh oil as well as the Machine with just a slight difference... it is much smoother and even outs the last bit of o/u.
The Machine shows the most hook/backend of all balls but has enough midlane to read the lane early enough to work good (compared to the H2O).. as good as the C+ which is the smooth roller in my arsenal.
So it is a matter of taste between Machine and C+.
Using the H2O on fresh lanes there is suicidal.

So I need to get my team together to train on realistic wear'n'tear conditions of those lanes... or play 20 games one afternoon

(with enough breakes so I don't get tired... A whole day at the bowling center... A "dream come true"

... BAH! no way! I can't do this. =) )

ok folks... I think I have found a good surface setup for the H2O and it seems to work. I just wished it would be a bit weaker on the backend sometimes..... But hey .... can't have everthing, no.
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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