Author Topic: lane 1 and storm on pba (Read 4554 times)

smer · « **on:** April 04, 2009, 07:03:13 AM »

I read with great interest the discussion of why you do not see anybody throw lane 1 stuff on the pba. Except for the usual "lane 1 just sucks" posts,there were alot of good points on both sides. The main point that seemed to come out the most was that Storm "matches up" with the oil patterns this year and Lane 1 does not. So, a question? Is there anyone who throws Storm equipment only and is not matching up? Not to pick on Jeff Carter{who is a great bowler and seems to be a really nice guy} but he has struggled this year using only Storm stuff{won using a plastic Ebonite}. I do not know what every pro throws on tour. But I see Barnes[Columbia], WRW[Morich],Tommy Jones[Ebonite], Parker Bohn, Rash[both Brunswick]around the top of the points list. When Mallot was on tv every week it was the Cell that was awsome.I have not seen him in a couple of weeks now[and do not know where he has finished in last few tourn], so is the Cell now no good. If you throw only Storm and still bowl bad, are you a really bad bowler. So is it the ball or the bowler. Does throwing Storm make Wes Mallot a great bowler, or is Wes Mallot a great bowler who just happens to throw Storm equipement[for whatever reason]?
This may not be the right forum for this question, but it is the forum where the origional question about lane 1 and Storm on the pba started, thus the post here

holland1945 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2009, 03:12:04 PM »

Outback Steakhouse is a horrid restaurant and they couldn't pay ME 99 cents to eat there

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Steven · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2009, 03:41:33 PM »

quote:
But MoRich is a small company too. And they can apparently afford to pay pros and sell their balls closer to mainstream prices. Why can't Lane #1 figure this out and do the same?

THB: Nice logic. If it's a small company, they must have the same revenue/cost models, and more important, put the same economic value on signing 'top 10%' exempt players.

Brilliant -- simply brilliant.

If you ever get back to school and attempt to take an upper level Economics class, pass on the above hypothesis to your professor for extra credit and see where it gets you. (Hint: Be careful -- it might be a one-way ticket to an "F".)

Steven · « **Reply #18 on:** April 05, 2009, 06:21:25 PM »

quote:
Free agents are just that, free agents. They can choose wahtever they want to throw. So, they throw what they think they can win with. Period.

So you're certain that any exempt pro can get Lane#1 equipment for free? Or even at a significantly reduced price? Remember, you need 8-12 at a given stop for different setup combinations. Is there a Lane#1 rep at each stop to assist with layouts for what the players are seeing? Remember, it's not just the balls but the technical consulting to get the right combinations.

Wow, if you have this, that's good information. Where do you get this kind of input?

holland1945 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:04:52 PM »

quote:
quote:
But MoRich is a small company too. And they can apparently afford to pay pros and sell their balls closer to mainstream prices. Why can't Lane #1 figure this out and do the same?

THB: Nice logic. If it's a small company, they must have the same revenue/cost models, and more important, put the same economic value on signing 'top 10%' exempt players.

Brilliant -- simply brilliant.

If Lane #1's costs are significantly higher than MoRich's, then they are not well run, period. As for the pro's, every major company out there sees this as a good ROI so I don't know why Lane #1 would think differently. And if they do, and are not more successful than those who with which they disagree, then they are wrong.
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BeansProShop · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:09:19 PM »

Are we forgetting that Walter Ray pretty much single handidly put Faball out of business because of the money he made and the gross incentives he made while having such amazing seasons with Faball. Maybe Mo Pinel was more willing to take a gamble and pay WRW to throw his stuff knowing he was going to make TV with anything he threw..

Sometimes you need to gamble and sometimes you don't.

How many balls do you think Mo sold because WRW made TV with it?

??

How many sales did he lose because WRW plaqued an 8-10 to lose the title on TV?

There has been alot of debate as to why the smaller companies are not on TV. There has also been alot of debate as to how many sales are actually generated by TV exposure.

Don't we all remember the 80's and 90's Ball company comercials that were always on TV on Sat afternoons???

If they generated sales, why did they all stop advertising??

It's over $100,000 just to register the product and then another $15,000 for TV rights if they make a show. How many balls do you have to sell just to break even there???

Is it worth it???

Don't you think Richie can just offer $25,000 to throw the Dynamo on TV and hope it wins? And if it does....Does it really sell more balls???

I can tell you this...

I am a Lane#1 staff guy who owns a successful shop but I do not "PUSH" Lane#1 on my customers. I do in fact offer a little more detailed descriptions of the Lane#1 stuff. Wes Malott was Player of the Year this year making 8 shows and throwing Roto Grip. I have not sold ANY Cells or Rogue Cells because he was on TV with them. I actually sell more Brunswick than I do Roto Grip and I hate the inconsisitent quality of Big B right now.

I am starting to ramble on here but I just don't really seem to understand the reasoning.

WRW wins without Storm products.
Duke won before Storm
PDW won before Storm
Barnes has never won with Storm
Tommy Jones and Couch have won 20+ without Storm

It just so happens that the couple top players on tour this year are Storm guys. If WRW,Malott,Barnes,Duke,Rhino,PA,Scroggins,PDW and Tommy Jones were all on Lane#1 staff. The same amount of titles would have been won by them the last few years.

Lane#1 has never been accepted by the main stream but hopefully we can change that in the future.

Lane#1 balls are no more expensive than any other balls on the market. That is way in the past and shops and bowlers around the country need to be educated to that.

Lane#1 will be here for a long,long time with or without TV exposure and with or without over the top marketing. LIVE WITH IT!!!!

beans

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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:24:15 PM »

quote:
Not to pick on Jeff Carter{who is a great bowler and seems to be a really nice guy} but he has struggled this year using only Storm stuff{won using a plastic Ebonite}.

Just for the record, Carter probably isn't a good example. If you read his blog, his physical game was really off for the first half of the season. He missed all of last year with a nasty finger injury and got into some bad habits. He actually had a pretty solid second half of the year beyond his win in the plastic ball tournament once he made some changes to his delivery.

rcorbitt · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2009, 08:17:22 PM »

Amen, Brother Beans!!!

smer · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2009, 09:53:09 PM »

So, what are the free agents using and why? If someone isn't committed to a certain company and struggling to make it on tour, are they just going to the bigger companies because the big companies have ball reps out there to help the bowlers out. I always find it interesting that you see the storm/RG rep standing right behing the lanes when anyone throwing Storm/RG is on tv. Isn't that coaching, and I thought coaching was not allowed. I remember Duke and Shafer getting into it about that several years ago during match play. But back to the main point: if any pro can get any ball for only the drilling cost, I find it hard to believe that someone has not tried Lane 1, Lane Masters, Visionary,etc and done well with them for at least one or two weeks.

bowlerdawg · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:00:12 PM »

to reply to the OP's question...................

the pro's are dumbaZzes for not rolling the best equiptment in the game.[PERIOD]

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Steven · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:38:27 PM »

THB: First, read Beans assessment of the PBA equipment landscape, and take it to heart. Now, to your comments:

quote:
If Lane #1's costs are significantly higher than MoRich's, then they are not well run, period.

Who says they are? Do you have insights to the Lane#1 balance sheet the way you did to their internal marketing strategy?

The fact that they're still independent and appear to be growing while many others have gone by the wayside says something about the way the company is run. There is no fiction in this observation.

quote:
As for the pro's, every major company out there sees this as a good ROI so I don't know why Lane #1 would think differently.

As Beans pointed out, Faball found out what a great ROI the PBA was. In tougher economic times, it wouldn't be surprising to see at least a few of the ball companies question the investment. Time will tell.

holland1945 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:50:33 PM »

quote:
Who says they are?

You did by suggesting one of the reasons they don't price things lower or sponsor a touring pro is because their costs might be higher.

quote:
The fact that they're still independent and appear to be growing

So now I have no possible way of knowing their marketing strategy or balance sheet, but you're an expert on their market share?

quote:
As Beans pointed out, Faball found out what a great ROI the PBA was. In tougher economic times, it wouldn't be surprising to see at least a few of the ball companies question the investment. Time will tell.

Faball doesn't exist anymore. So you could say that companies who don't sponsor touring professionals eventually fall by the wayside while ones that do stick around.
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JessN16 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:06:49 AM »

quote:
So, what are the free agents using and why? If someone isn't committed to a certain company and struggling to make it on tour, are they just going to the bigger companies because the big companies have ball reps out there to help the bowlers out. I always find it interesting that you see the storm/RG rep standing right behing the lanes when anyone throwing Storm/RG is on tv. Isn't that coaching, and I thought coaching was not allowed. I remember Duke and Shafer getting into it about that several years ago during match play. But back to the main point: if any pro can get any ball for only the drilling cost, I find it hard to believe that someone has not tried Lane 1, Lane Masters, Visionary,etc and done well with them for at least one or two weeks.

I can answer that one for you -- neither LaneMasters nor Visionary (nor Motiv nor Kinetic) are PBA-registered for the big tour. LaneMasters might still be "grassroots-registered" but I'm not sure. I think if LaneMasters was registered you'd see Rhino Page throwing a lot of it, as he used to before he became exempt.

Besides the matchup issues, someone else made a very salient point about Lane #1 not having a tour rep structure. Given that 900Global/AMF has been virtually invisible this year (two shows, I think?) I'd say that's probably their problem, too, especially since their coverstocks have gotten very skid/flippy, which seems to be the trend this year.

MoRich has WRW. He doesn't need a tour rep, never has. You carry four balls and try to play straight all the time, you don't need much of a tour rep.

I can say this about the matchup issue: I rolled a tournament this week that demanded equipment that was long and angular. For the first time in awhile, I ran into a matchup problem with my Lane #1 arsenal. I managed to work it out but I took some damage before I made some big changes in my release. I pretty much had to ram some square pegs into round holes. I wouldn't dismiss the matchup argument out of hand, but the fact that Storm/Ebonite/Brunswick have vastly superior support structures behind their products at the tour level surely plays a major part.

Jess

Buddy Christ · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:11:08 AM »

quote:
I can answer that one for you -- neither LaneMasters nor Visionary (nor Motiv nor Kinetic) are PBA-registered for the big tour. LaneMasters might still be "grassroots-registered" but I'm not sure. I think if LaneMasters was registered you'd see Rhino Page throwing a lot of it, as he used to before he became exempt.
Jess

Jess,

Didn't Michael Haugen Jr. use Visionary for a while 'back in the day'?
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JessN16 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:23:48 AM »

quote:
quote:
I can answer that one for you -- neither LaneMasters nor Visionary (nor Motiv nor Kinetic) are PBA-registered for the big tour. LaneMasters might still be "grassroots-registered" but I'm not sure. I think if LaneMasters was registered you'd see Rhino Page throwing a lot of it, as he used to before he became exempt.
Jess

Jess,

Didn't Michael Haugen Jr. use Visionary for a while 'back in the day'?
--------------------
KILLWHITNEYDEAD
Viva La Marijuana!

I'm told he did. I never saw him during that time, but it probably happened. The thing is companies have to re-up every year if they want to remain registered (and the cost of doing so is wacky high).

Jess

Buddy Christ · « **Reply #30 on:** April 06, 2009, 01:27:53 AM »

Ah, I gotcha. I remember seeing him on TV a few times with Visionary equipment back in the day. That's too bad, 'cause they really make some good equipment. Of course, so do other companies, so it's just a shame in general that smaller companies don't get as much, if any, TV time.

Author Topic: lane 1 and storm on pba (Read 4554 times)

smer

lane 1 and storm on pba

holland1945

Re: lane 1 and storm on pba

Steven

Re: lane 1 and storm on pba

Steven

Re: lane 1 and storm on pba

holland1945

Re: lane 1 and storm on pba

BeansProShop

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Dan Belcher

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rcorbitt

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smer

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bowlerdawg

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Steven

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holland1945

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JessN16

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Buddy Christ

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JessN16

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Buddy Christ

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