win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: lane 1 has become jerks!!  (Read 7676 times)

mrbowlingnut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5727
lane 1 has become jerks!!
« on: August 12, 2004, 02:42:46 AM »
I own and have owned at least 10 saws and now they are controlling the minium price that they can be sold at!!!!! I think this sucks and i am done buying from them for now join in with me and protest buying them until they drop price control!!!! I am disappointed by you Mr. Buzzsaw after long emails between me and you two weeks ago and i am now done with your company i feel others on this site should oppose your new methods also!!!!

 

Ernie McCracken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1127
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2004, 09:40:24 PM »
Wouldn't it just be easier for all of us to throw Track stuff?  I mean really!
--------------------
Evolutionary.  Revolutionary.

shimozukawa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2004, 09:59:51 PM »
Economics and law...

I don't see how anyone is arguing this to be illegal in ANY manner. Market economics (basic, SIMPLE supply-demand) allows the market to determine a set of prices at which an item will sell. This is a downward sloping curve of some sort. (This does not account for incidental short-run speculation, so please don't bring up perceived demand pricing.)

Along this curve rest different valuations for price points (cost, max economic profits, max true profits, et al). By setting a pricing floor, Lane #1 is simply exercising its contractural rights as a manufacturer. If you don't like it, don't buy our product. This is actually a well-employed marketing strategy by many industries. People grumble that Lane #1 is going to run itself out of business. Maybe, but probably not.

I remember (from Econ 130) that bowling is considered to be a regressive industry, thriving during weaker economies. Now that the PBA is pushing HARD, maybe that image might change. Lane #1 is banking on the change of image.

In a stable economy, affluent individuals gravitate toward items and acquisitions that are somewhat exclusive. Case in point: Jaguar. (I don't like the cars myself.) Jaguar owners are willing to spend more money on these vehicles because they know they are limited in number (200,000 per year). Jaguar dealers are told a minimum price at which they are allowed to sell the cars. (Probably true for other car brands, as well... but that would only fuel my point.)

Now adapt this rational to the bowling ball manufacturing scene. Lane #1 came out with the Buzzsaw guarantee with a retail price point of $269 or whatever it was. Over time, their balls started selling closer to the retail price point of competing manufacturers. Since Lane #1 doesn't pour its own balls, they pay some sort of commission structure to Brunswick for each pour.

Whereas other manufacturers (with their own facilities) can release 30+ balls a year and saturate the market, Lane #1 doesn't have this liberty.

I am guessing the price floor is a means to limit demand to an exclusive group which is willing to pay a premium for Lane #1 products. By restricting the price at which proshops can sell the balls, Lane #1 will limit orders to a level at which supply will closely mimic demand. In doing so, Lane #1 will minimize over saturation of the market with Buzzsaw bowling balls.

Now for the numbers:

Say a Brunswick ball costs $25 in actual production costs. (Not including costs absorbed through R&D, but the actual manufacturing cost of making one ball -- economies of scale notwithstanding.)

Lane #1 needs to pay Brunswick a fee to pour their balls. If Brunswick charges a 20 percent markup, that's $30 per ball poured. I'm thinking it must be closer to $45.

That already places Lane #1 at a premium price over major ball companies.

Now, let's say Lane #1 tried to release its balls like a "normal" ball company. If they blitzed the market with as many balls as they could produce, at some point, they would reach market saturation (similarly to how the larger companies do). However, unlike those manufacturers pouring their own balls, with each ball that is produced, lane #1 has to pay a premium (the $5-$20 difference mentioned above). So, for each ball of over production, Lane #1 absorbs that additional percentage as a penalty.

There are two ways to accommodate this penalty:
1) Restrict production.
2) Pass on the costs of production.

In effect, by instituting the price floor, Lane #1 is possibly lowering customer prices in the long run. (I know, it might not make sense as I stated it, but it does make sense.)

Also, because Lane #1 is a smaller company, they can't spend as much on R&D as larger manufacturers. The Diamond core led to Brunswick's Quantum line. I'm fairly certain that the Buzzsaw patent is about to expire (five years more or so), and it only makes sense for them to establish their name as a premium brand now BEFORE other companies start making generic "diamond cores".

Anyhow, my point is that the price floors are VERY MUCH legal, and actually a sound economic strategy -- in this particular case. Buzzsaw needs to establish itself as a premium product to maintain a market in the current economy of "ball of the month" bowling.

And _that_ is my two cents.

PS: Before anyone says I'm a Saw-head. I'm not. I have owned two Buzzsaws in my life and gave both away. Actually, make that three. The third, I didn't even drill... just gave it away. The balls don't work for me. They may work for some individuals, but not my game.

JOE FALCO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6298
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2004, 11:15:17 PM »
As I said before:

quote:
Glad you folks have finally seen the light .. although I HAVE BOUGHT Lane 1 balls ..  I've seen all along what you guys are talking about .. .. there will be bowlers that won't see it .. but all I can do is WISH THEM LUCK!
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O

--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

Doug Sterner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4395
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2004, 11:40:14 PM »
Hey guys...did you ever think of it this way....there is a minimum ADVERTISED price. You know as well as I do that when the Blueberry was king and the CHerry Bomb was new that it was the same way but there were people undercutting the set price just to make sales. It goes on everywhere in all kinds of industry but we are dealing with a unique scenario here....the Internet and product small enough to be easily shipped.

What Richie and Lane 1 are trying to do is get you to buy them from your local pro shops instead of over the Internet. By setting a price floor Richie is guaranteeing that no Internet shops can undersell the local shops.

To let the truth be told, the $180 floor was set at allowed a 6.5% profit margin. Whew!! we are all going to get rich!!! Again to let the truth out of the bag, when I set my pricing I can mark up Buzzsaws about $10-15 over cost and that's it. I make a whole lot more on Storm and Ebonite stuff yet they cost less...hmmm...go figure.

In short guys it is now time for you to come down on your LOCAL shops and tell them to stop charging such outrageous prices for Lane 1 balls. There is no reason for any pro shop to put such a mark up on a ball like many shops do on Lane 1 stuff. I am selling Uraniums for $179 in the shop plus $45 for a axis point referenced drilling with inserts and slug included. So hat's $224 plus tax. There are plenty of shops that charge that for an X Factor that cost them $120!

So guys think about it before going off the deep end.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
The Cherry is the Bomb

And the Uranium blows them all away!

Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

Next Level PS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1874
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2004, 12:00:22 AM »
Hmmm.... that why Anthony at lane1 would not give me the 4 for 1 on the Cherry Bomb series yesterday. Hey I'm out then people around here are too cheap to pay $225 for a ball. Charging $200 for the lane1 ball was the max around here.

Good Luck fellows those ultimate and intenses look real good with the 4 for 1 offer.
--------------------
www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com

"I'm Rick James B!%(H"  RIP
Next Level Proshop
Union, NJ

"THE BOWLERS WILL NOT BE DENIED"

www.lovedoublesonline.com

Brickguy221

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9918
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2004, 12:02:34 AM »
quote:
I would take the challenge to match any of my Saws up against any of the haters.


Saw Mill, I don't hate Saws, but no longer love them either other than the Uranium and that ball will remain with me a long time unless something changes. I'm not going to say that I will never buy one again either.

The Uranium is so versatile that it will work on most any condition clear up to medium plus, but I can't say that for the other 4 Saws I bought. At one time the Emerald worked. Today it no longer works, even after cover changes it doesn't work. The Blueberry and Golden Nugget never did work from day one and I no longer own them. And the XXXL? Well it's just a plastic ball like any Storm, Ebonite, Brunswick etc. plastic ball. (Except it costs more)

Maybe the lane conditions have changed, maybe I have changed, etc., I don't know the answer. If I had the answer, I would fix the problem quickly. All I can tell you at the moment is that the Saws (with the exception of the Uranium) no longer work for me, but Ebonite and Storm balls do. Both the Ebonite V2 sanded & V2 Pearl worked for me before I bought my first Saw, they worked while I was buying Saws (both thinking and being blindly led to believe the Saws were better) and since I quit buying Saws the V2's still work and are used today. The sanded V2 is very versatile like the Uranium. It will handle heavier Oil than the Uranium, but not as light of oil as the Uranium.

I have found out the expensive way that as far as I am concerned, at least for me, that no one company's balls will work for everyone. For me a mix of different company's balls work best for me. I have in my bag right now, Lane 1, AMF, Storm, and Ebonite and they all work on the conditions I bowl on.

Hopefully this explains why I turned into a Turncoat, Rat, Chicken Sheet or whatever else a Saw person wants to call me. Sorry, but that's the way it is and I doubt I ever will commit to one company only, again.


--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

brianthegwp69

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2004, 12:08:22 AM »
Kinda confused here, fill me in on what happened prz so i dont have to read 393483 posts.  Minimum price?

Brickguy221

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9918
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2004, 12:21:58 AM »
quote:
In short guys it is now time for you to come down on your LOCAL shops and tell them to stop charging such outrageous prices for Lane 1 balls.


Doug, you and I have a good relationship and I don't want to destroy it. I will still continue to recommend you to others as I always have. However in the referenced statement above, I believe that it is Lane 1 that is charging the pro-shops like yours outrageous prices. You acknowledged that balls like Storm, Brunswick, and etc. that you make more money because they don't cost you as much. Think about it, if Lane 1 would sell to you at the same price, you could make a good profit off their balls too, plus the public could have a Saw at the same price as other balls.

With other companies balls being of at least equal quality and working just as good as a Saw, if I was running a pro-shop, I would push the other lines of balls over Lane 1 so that I could make a decent profit. I have always stayed out of this price conflict thing, but now that I've let my self get drawn in, let me say that to date, Lane 1 has never given a reasonable explaination why their balls cost so much, other than this Core thing of which I don't buy and  even if true, wouldn't add that much to the cost of a ball.

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

Doug Sterner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4395
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2004, 01:21:59 AM »
BG221,

Yes, Jim, we do have a great relationship and I value that. Here's what I am saying...

Depending on how much a shop buys from Lane 1, they pay a different price. The reason for the price floor is to eliminate a shop like me (who pays less) from selling for a lower price than another shop pays for the ball. And I commend them for doing that. They don't want the big shops running the little guy out of business because they cannot afford to do the volume.

Look at the companies that offer a pro shop program...the one ebonite offers is $2000, and the rest are like $600-800. Can I afford them? No but guess what? The big shops can afford them all so they get all of the free balls and specials on bags etc.

So, in short, I'll keep selling and throwing Lane 1 stuff until I find something better. I am in the business to help bowlers do better and score. If I were in it for a living, I might think differently. BUt until I am among the owners in teh bowling industry and relying on it for my livlihood, I'll be happy making enough to cover my bowling, my equipment and a hamburger and fries on shop nights :-)
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
The Cherry is the Bomb

And the Uranium blows them all away!

Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases


Edited on 8/14/2004 1:22 AM
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

Doug Sterner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4395
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2004, 04:22:11 AM »
Jimmy T....FYI I am a school teacher by trade and quite happy in doing so. I have no need for another job as such. I got into the business because I was sick and tired of seeing bowlers get raped by unethical and immoral owners. Some hack pro shops out there could not duplicate a fit or grip to save their lives. Other shops make set their pricing so dang high that people get turned off for that reason as well.

When I hear students talk about bowling and how it sucks because they can't get a ball to fit, it upset me. So I got into the business to give the local bowlers an option. An option to go to a different place. A place where the person in charge cared about them and not about making money. Getting the customer into what they need is more important than the amount of profit I make.

Is my pro shop a hobby? Maybe but I subscribe to the "work hard, play hard" philosophy. It is also a well known fact that many people put more energy and heart into their hobbies than their careers. So I want to help those people with a passion for the sport...do I need to inflate my bank account to do this? NO! I am a school teacher, I am used to working hard for little in return.

I have never once complained about being a small shop or not making a lot of money because that is not the reason I am in it. I am in it to help the bowler succeed and get what they need to enjoy the sport. If more people would take this outlook on the business, bowling would not be in the sad state of affairs that it currently is.

BG221,
I feel your dissatisfaction with some of the Saws was a result in me not ever having seen you bowl. I am still confident that any bowler can use a Saw but some bowlers benefit more than others. With some surface work and some creative drillings, there is not a single person who cannot benefit from Lane 1. It takes a great relationship between pro shop and bowler to make it 100% effective. I apologize for not being able to serve you and help you as I should have. Perhaps your results would have been different if that was the case.


--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
The Cherry is the Bomb

And the Uranium blows them all away!

Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

Brickguy221

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9918
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2004, 11:00:59 AM »
quote:
Brickguy--Why did it take buying 5 Buzzsaws before you
found out that you didn't like their performance? Couldn't
you have done this a few balls sooner?


Jimmy, the answer to your question is in my post.  Why do you care why? It doesn't concern you. It was my money and I lost. OK?????????.....

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income


Edited on 8/14/2004 10:57 AM
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

Brickguy221

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9918
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2004, 11:13:29 AM »
quote:
It takes a great relationship between pro shop and bowler to make it 100% effective. I apologize for not being able to serve you and help you as I should have. Perhaps your results would have been different if that was the case.
 


Doug, no appology needed. You are a great guy. Don't blame yourself. As I said in one of my posts here.... "I was blindly led to believe etc. etc. etc."..... You didn't push me to buy Saws. I blindly let others sucker me in and do this. Summary....It was all my fault and not yours. Have a good day.

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income

Edited on 8/14/2004 11:11 AM
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

lane1lefty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2004, 03:01:33 PM »
As I've said before, Lane 1 works for some, not for all, just like somebody's $1000 set of irons may be great for them and another guy gets by with a $200 set. This is America, what right does anyone have judging anyone else for what ball they choose to buy? Yeah, I roll Lane #1, so what? I pay the premium, not anyone else. It comes out of my paycheck, not yours. If people would just quit worrying about everybody else's business this site might be respectable again. As far as what Doug said, I gotta back ya again bro, I know shop guys here who won't even drill a ball without seeing the guy bowl. Perhaps these folks know somebody with a video camera that could tape them, send you the tape, and then make the choice.

brianthegwp69

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2004, 04:29:12 PM »
People people, calm down and shut up.  Lane 1 has been like this forever, and now that someone finally brought it up you think it's new?  DUMB PEOPLE I SWEAR.  You make yourselves look like such morons saying IM SO MAD AT LANE 1 and I WILL NEVER BUY FROM THEM AGAIN.  IDIOTS.  They didn't raise thier prices or anything.  EVERYTHING is still the same.  NOTHING has changed.

Brickguy221

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9918
Re: lane 1 has become jerks!!
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2004, 08:03:45 PM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brickguy--You put it in a post, so it is fair game for
anyone to comment on. Why continue to buy balls from
a line that doesn't work for you.
 


Jimmy T, what is there to debate? The answer is in my post on the second page of this topic, so there is nothing to debate.

 
quote:


Doug--Being altruistic in business may be fine, but the
obvious reason for most businesses is to make money. If
you don't make profit, how long will that business be
a viable concern? Then who can you help? If as a
teacher, you want to help someone, Kingpin is in dire
need of your services.


Jimmy T, Doug Sterner is a successful School Teacher with a successful Pro-Shop on the side. He likes what he is doing and he likes it the way he is doing things. He makes a small profit, and he is happy, so why do you keep commenting to him about the way he runs his business?  FYI, the Bowling House he has his Shop in is a small house and does not have a lot of bowlers and the business potential is not big enough to support a full time Pro Shop or for a Pro Shop operator to support a family.

Now, let me ask you a question. Why do you not have a profile?

--------------------
Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"