Author Topic: Lane1 argument in a nutshell (Read 4727 times)

Gazoo · « **on:** September 11, 2009, 12:51:20 PM »

I make a Widget that I think is the best there is and charge $99.95. Other companies make their Widgets and charge $79.95. The people who buy the $79.95 Widget say their Widget is just as good while the people who by the $99.95 Widget say theirs is better which is why they buy it. Qaulity is a matter of opinion which is why this argument will never end. If I spend money because I think something is better, those who spend less on a similar product will never agree. The beauty of free enterpise is that everyone can buy what they want. If anyone thinks their product is the best, why would those who think not care!
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"I don''t want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

novawagonmaster · « **Reply #16 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:41:12 PM »

quote:
The notion that 'fanboys' influence what brand is used (or isn't) is sad. Real bowlers use equipment that give them a competitive advantage.

Sad is the fact that the fanboys are representing the company, and may actually be affiliated with the company. Sad is the fact that you think you are holding on to something truly unique (unless of course you are talking about the XXXL which IS unique, yet most fanboys could care less about it). Sad is the fact that "real bowlers" (you've heard of the PBA, right?) sign contracts to throw certain equipment. They don't cry because they can't throw Lane #1. They don't care because they can make anything work. Sad is the fact that you continue to drive people away instead of trying to win them over. Sad is the fact that with those blinders you are wearing, you are missing some beautiful scenery.
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Jon (in Ohio)
http://lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=177027

sunsetlefty · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2009, 08:15:34 PM »

quote:
Quote
This is dealing with overpriced drilling. Same theme.

And I disagree that Lane 1 costs more. Most shops just don't order as much of those as they might others. So naturally, they don't get the same prices. They don't cost anymore than the next ball. Get real.

Oh and by the way, drilling for the others in town are 30-40 except for the one guy who charges 60. So again, get real.
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F.O.S. 4 Life baby!

Reppin Lane #1 Loud and Proud baby!

www.urbanballwhore.com

urbanj51,

Lane1 has a pricing policy for all pro shops that require each pro shop to sell Lane1 products at a minimum price. Lane1 products ARE more expensive for each pro shop.

I am not here to argue value of product versus price but you do need to know the real facts.

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Gary Palma
Owner of X-act Reaction pro shop at Ideal Lanes
www.myideallanes.com
Rotogrip Star Pro Shop Member
Ebonite International Gold Pro Shop Member
PBA Member

Edited on 9/12/2009 8:18 PM

RevZiLLa · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2009, 10:56:11 PM »

I think they did away with the MAP pricing.
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RevZ=======================

\I/

JessN16 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 13, 2009, 02:27:34 AM »

There are so many different things going on in this thread but they've all been covered before...

1) If the ball really makes a difference for you, cost is irrelevant. If my 900Global Break S75 was lost or stolen right now, I'd pay double the retail price to find one with the same specs. I'm serious about that. I guess jumping 20+ pins in average since using the thing tends to make you giddy.

2) For any contract pour company -- Seismic, Lane #1, MoRich, whoever -- you are buying something that was made on a cost-plus basis. Example: 900Global pours Ball X at a cost of $50 and wholesales it for $100. Their margin is $50/ball. Lane #1 balls also cost $50 to pour, but then 900G charges a $20 premium for pouring it. If Lane #1 were to sell it for $100, its profit would be only $30, not $50. In order to equalize profits, Lane #1 would have to pass the contract pour price on to customers. This same thing goes on in every industry in America every day, and I'd like to see us all come to understand this so we can get off the pricing argument. I can only surmise that the people who still get jacked at paying a small premium don't understand basics of economics.

3) Attitudes of users is a big deal. However, I think that has taken on a life of its own on this board. There are just as many, if not more Brunswick jerks on this site as there are Lane #1 jerks. And there are some downright unhelpful people in the Storm forum. But the Lane #1 forum is like a red sports car -- everyone expects the red sports car driver to be a speeder, whether he is or not, but if you see a cop pulling over a red sports car, what's the first thing that comes to mind? "Da*n red sports cars and their drivers -- they're always speeding."

So basically, point No. 1 is specific to the user. There are bowlers who match up better with L1 equipment than anything else. To them, price is irrelevant. Point No. 2 just needs to go away, as it's been beat to death enough as it is. As for No. 3, that cuts both ways. Yes, there are some very over-the-top Lane #1 users who need a chill pill, but the other "side" da*n sure isn't innocent in this deal. They may like to think they are, but they're not. A little more maturity from all sides would help a great deal.

Jess

rackattack · « **Reply #21 on:** September 13, 2009, 08:47:12 AM »

quote:
2) For any contract pour company -- Seismic, Lane #1, MoRich, whoever -- you are buying something that was made on a cost-plus basis. Example: 900Global pours Ball X at a cost of $50 and wholesales it for $100. Their margin is $50/ball. Lane #1 balls also cost $50 to pour, but then 900G charges a $20 premium for pouring it. If Lane #1 were to sell it for $100, its profit would be only $30, not $50. In order to equalize profits, Lane #1 would have to pass the contract pour price on to customers. This same thing goes on in every industry in America every day, and I'd like to see us all come to understand this so we can get off the pricing argument. I can only surmise that the people who still get jacked at paying a small premium don't understand basics of economics.

This is true as far as it goes.
Where is the R&D,advertising and distribution costs?
MoRich manages to come up with new cores and shells (R&D) on a regular basis and keep their prices in line with the big companies.
I believe they are also tour eligible because they pay the fee(advertisement).
We all know Brunswick pours their balls so how is it possible?
MANY more MoRich balls on the lanes than Lane 1 in my area.
Without the hype. Maybe that's where the extra cost comes into play.
And save the USA vs. Mexico manufacturing costs argument. This was the case when they came out of Michigan too.
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It's all about the X

JessN16 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 13, 2009, 03:07:44 PM »

quote:

This is true as far as it goes.
Where is the R&D,advertising and distribution costs?
MoRich manages to come up with new cores and shells (R&D) on a regular basis and keep their prices in line with the big companies.
I believe they are also tour eligible because they pay the fee(advertisement).
We all know Brunswick pours their balls so how is it possible?
MANY more MoRich balls on the lanes than Lane 1 in my area.
Without the hype. Maybe that's where the extra cost comes into play.
And save the USA vs. Mexico manufacturing costs argument. This was the case when they came out of Michigan too.
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It's all about the X

For starters, MoRich is no longer PBA-registered. They dropped registration last week.

Until about two years ago, MoRich stuff in my area was consistently $20-$40 more per ball than anything else. The premium to buy it was larger than Lane #1. This changed right at the end of the Awesome series, when suddenly there came a glut of MoRich balls on eBay. If you buy MoRich at face value from a pro shop around here, you'll still pay a small premium ($10-$20) but it's not what it used to be.

I'm assuming Lane #1 has R&D costs, too, given the core variations of recent years. And I'll bet dinner that Lane #1 has a much larger advertising budget than MoRich has ever had, judging from the number of print media ads for both companies.

You may want me to save the Michigan-Mexico argument, but I find it more than a little coincidental that the drop in MoRich premiums around here seemed to happen about the same time the production location changed.

Either way, it's IRRELEVANT. What Lane #1 charges is nobody's business except the people who buy it. I can't understand why anyone who doesn't use Lane #1 even opens their mouth about the cost. That's like b*tching about the cost of a Jaguar when you only buy Buicks and Fords. Not to mention it ignores the reality of contract pour costs and markups.

Jess

Steven · « **Reply #23 on:** September 13, 2009, 03:35:05 PM »

CRD: The notion that you're in a Lane#1 thread redefines the extremes of being clueless. It wasn't too long ago that you owned up to never have seen a Lane#1 ball. You've certainly never used one. But ignorance and pompous stupidity has never stopped you from mouthing off.

Nova: It's nice to see you put your toe in the water instead of staying on the bench. A few thoughts:

quote:
Sad is the fact that the fanboys are representing the company, and may actually be affiliated with the company. Sad is the fact that you think you are holding on to something truly unique (unless of course you are talking about the XXXL which IS unique, yet most fanboys could care less about it).

Fanboys (as you call them) are simply bowlers who have found value in the Lane#1 line, and are sick and tired of the ignorant trolling against the company. And I'll state with pride that much of their equipment is truly unique. In my small little THS world, I averaged 230+ for multiple seasons exclusively using Lane#1. That's after 20 years of league bowling plowing through dozens (from each company) of Storm, Columbia, Track, and Ebonite. Not to mention a smattering of Brunswick and AMF. Nothing 'sad' about real world experience leading to solid measurable conclusions.

As far as the XXXL, I found it to be a unique piece, but not very practical for most situations. For spares, I want a plastic that will go dead straight (the XXXL doesn't). And I've rarely seen conditions so fried where I could look to it as a go to ball. The XXXL is a case study for the significance of diamond core dynamics, but for the most part, it was a solution without a problem.

quote:
Sad is the fact that "real bowlers" (you've heard of the PBA, right?) sign contracts to throw certain equipment. They don't cry because they can't throw Lane #1. They don't care because they can make anything work.

Being a "real bowler" has nothing to do with the PBA. It's about having the courage to pursue continuous improvement, and using equipment that suits your game instead of being concerned about what others think or say.

quote:
Sad is the fact that you continue to drive people away instead of trying to win them over. Sad is the fact that with those blinders you are wearing, you are missing some beautiful scenery.

Now we're getting to the essence of what's eating away at your gut. Bad Ol' Steven is being mean and driving people away. Well, Boo-Hoo. I have no interest in 'winning over' anyone who trolls in Lane#1 discussions without having any real interest in learning about the line. I love having real discussions and debates with like minded people, but I don't have the energy to suffer BR fools. If you think you're accomplishing anything by trying to be everyone's friend without ever putting a stick in the sand, you've just discovered the real definition of 'sad'.

3835 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 13, 2009, 03:40:23 PM »

Steven,

Here is the thing. Nova WAS a huge Lane 1 guy...he had almost every ball Lane 1 ever made, at once if I remember correctly. However, he sold everything...why...because of people like you. Nova is not a troll...he was a HUGE user of Lane 1, and sang their praises when he could. You could do the same as him, without being over the top like you.

I like Lane 1 stuff...I have the Liberator and XXXL in my bag...I like the stuff...I like most of the posts here, from Doug to others...but you and some others just go too over the top.

I am not a troll as I do believe in the product. If it was a tad cheaper, I might buy more...but its okay the way it is right now by me.

3835

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #25 on:** September 13, 2009, 06:15:56 PM »

No matter what team, sport, car manufacturer, ball manfacturer or anything you choose there will always be haters, users, fans and fanatics.

There are people who love the Cowboys, there are Cowboys fanatics and there are also Cowboy haters.

If I were to lookat the balls I have had the most success with in the past there i no pattern yet I still like the Lane 1 product line....

My only 300 game....Storm X Factor
My high series...783...Storm El Nino X-it
My 299 game...Lane 1 Hybrid Dirty Bomb
My 298 game...AZO Armageddon
My High book average....204...Ebonite Playmaker, Hammer Psycho, Brunswick Blast Zone, Lane 1 G Force Evolution, Lane 1 BuzzBomb

Right now I have a whole pile of stuff sitting here drilled but for some reason I keep going back to Lane 1...I get the best carry, most consistency and most room for error with Lane 1 stuff.

I mean right now I have 2 Playmakers, Psycho, Burn, Piranha/C, Punisher, BuzzBomb, Dynamo X2, Red Death, Evolution, Nebula, Super Carbide Bomb, Pearl Uranium, Solid Uranium, Blast Zone, Pioneer, Tsunami, XXXL, Black Phantom, Blue Hammer, Blue Pearl Nail, Grey Angle, White Dot...and a bunch of others that I don't have fitted to me yet.

I can throw whatever I want and I choose to throw Lane 1 because they match up better than average for me. I like Storm equipment but it has been my experience that the newer Storm balls do not give me the room for error I need to make up for my lack of physical talent. Do I sell a lot of Storm balls? You bet I do. I sell a lot of Hammer too. I have not thrown a Storm ball in quite some time that I can say worked well for me but yet I don't go around badmouthing the company. Same goes for Brunswick or RotoGrip. I like the Playmaker but have not seen a lot else other than the One Pearl that impresses me from Ebonite. Columbia? Track? Nothing to brag about there either...but I don't bash them.

Let's put it all to rest.....oh yeah but one more thing....it is my understanding that Lane 1 WILL be registered for use on the PBA tour for the new season....
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
BowlingChat.net

xdiamondsbeatstarsx · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2009, 06:24:31 PM »

My .02:
I have several lane 1 balls. I was using rotogrip stuff for a few years, and I got a deal on one from beans (a bb/r) and noticed an immediate difference in carry. My average didnt jump immediately, but there was a measurable difference. I shot some great series' with it. I then began acquiring equipment from many sources, all used. I have yet to purchase a NIB lane 1 since the bb/r, which brings me to my biggest point, value.

Of all the equipment ive used in the 15 years or so ive bowled, no brand (not my storm, c300, big b, or ebo) have held their value.
An example would be my Rogue Cell. I got it for $150 drilled. I liked it, but made a mistake in layout choice, and never matched up well with it. As I acquired a few lane 1 balls, and saw the difference it made for me, I sold my Rogue. With low games, I could only get 50 for it. I sold other stuff, and barely got anything back. Yet lane 1 stuff ive bought and sold has consistently retained its value. So call me whatever term you want, I like the equipment and will continue to use it as long as I score with it.
I will buy and sell as they come, and know that if I spend 50 on a cobalt solid, ill get 50 when i sell it to someone else...

Steven · « **Reply #27 on:** September 13, 2009, 06:57:44 PM »

quote:
Here is the thing. Nova WAS a huge Lane 1 guy...he had almost every ball Lane 1 ever made, at once if I remember correctly. However, he sold everything...why...because of people like you. Nova is not a troll...he was a HUGE user of Lane 1, and sang their praises when he could. You could do the same as him, without being over the top like you.

Yes, Nova was a huge Lane 1 guy. He'll probably be enshrined into the Ball Collectors Hall of Fame for the record number of Lane#1 balls he owned.

If he in fact sold everything because of 'people like me', he has emotional issues too deep to be solved here. It's incredibly weak to even put that out.

You'll have to explain what going 'over the top' means. I provide facts and observations regarding Lane#1 equipment. If something off the wall is stated by less than reliable posters, I'll question what's put out there. If that's over the top in your book, then maybe you too have some deeper issues to explore.

BTW, I go out of my way to further the cause of Lane#1 and bowling in general on these boards. When it was clear that 'Maine Man' was for real and wanted to perform an honest and unbiased evaluation of Lane#1, I facilitated communication between him and the company. That resulted in Lane#1 providing a NIB test ball, which he's reporting experiences on in the "**Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is: Mini-Review and Update 8/31/09**" thread.

So before you get up on a pedestal and judge my actions, maybe you'd like to step up to the plate and describe what you've done for the cause.

Edited on 9/13/2009 6:58 PM

3835 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 13, 2009, 07:17:27 PM »

What have I done? I have purchased Lane 1 products, used them, scored well, and have helped sell some product when crossing in tournaments to bowlers who needed something smoother in their bag, such as a Liberator and XXXL, a reaction or 2 I had that they did not. Just because I do not stand up on her and yell does not mean I do not promote anything.

The problem it seems is not what you are saying, but HOW you are saying it. 2 people can say/type essentially the same response, and because of the tone they are using to the audience, it is perceived differently because of the way it is being portrayed.

I am not going to is there and say Lane 1 is the best ever...because I do carry other brands...Visionary, AMF, and Global. Is it good enough? Darn right, but just because I match up with something, does not mean someone else has.

Plus, what you and everyone else must understand about Ballreviews is many of the members today are younger, and many new members continually joining. Many come one here to post stories about their experience, and we have little to go off of. Maybe someone did have a real bad experience with a Chainsaw, but, what we don't know is was this ball drilled properly? What was told to them before purchase, and what did he or she see after purchase? Was the results up to snuff with the preview? Is this Lane 1's fault? Maybe, if they gave the info/layout info. Is it the pro shops's fault? Maybe, depending on how well they read the span/pitches/needs of the bowler and the ball they matched them with.

Very simply, I also was not attacking you, simply stating what Nova had said numerous times, that posters, including you, drove him away from the brand due to the type of responses/posts. I personally never said you did anything to me, never had an issue with you, but yet YOu still attacked me, asking me if I had a problem. Right THERE is the issue. I was simply rehashing Nova's reasons, which he has publicly stated numerous times, and yet you try to bust me down for rehashing comments he publicly made numerous times. Why attack me? I buy and own the product. I stated I liked the product. Never once did I say I did not like you, because you are knowledgeable. However, the way you come off to people is different, as you came down on me.

3835

JessN16 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 13, 2009, 08:24:28 PM »

quote:

Yes, Nova was a huge Lane 1 guy. He'll probably be enshrined into the Ball Collectors Hall of Fame for the record number of Lane#1 balls he owned.

If he in fact sold everything because of 'people like me', he has emotional issues too deep to be solved here. It's incredibly weak to even put that out.

You'll have to explain what going 'over the top' means. I provide facts and observations regarding Lane#1 equipment. If something off the wall is stated by less than reliable posters, I'll question what's put out there. If that's over the top in your book, then maybe you too have some deeper issues to explore.

BTW, I go out of my way to further the cause of Lane#1 and bowling in general on these boards. When it was clear that 'Maine Man' was for real and wanted to perform an honest and unbiased evaluation of Lane#1, I facilitated communication between him and the company. That resulted in Lane#1 providing a NIB test ball, which he's reporting experiences on in the "**Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is: Mini-Review and Update 8/31/09**" thread.

So before you get up on a pedestal and judge my actions, maybe you'd like to step up to the plate and describe what you've done for the cause.

Edited on 9/13/2009 6:58 PM

Steven,

I have met novawagonmaster in person. He doesn't have any "issues he needs to explore" that I can see. He's a good guy and very level-headed.

I understand your desire to defend something you like, but if you don't think your attitude plays a part in how people perceive the company, you're just wrong. How many times do you hear someone say they won't cheer for a certain sports team -- even a big winner -- because of the attitude of the fans? Same thing.

Also remember that, unless you're Richie and I just don't know it, that you didn't birth these bowling balls. They're not your kids. So they don't need a full-bore defense every time out.

Look, I hate this forum attracts anonymous nincompoops as much as you do. But over the past year, you have gotten a lot more sarcastic and condescending, n ot to mention unyielding, with your posts. You might want to consider taking a step back.

Jess

novawagonmaster · « **Reply #30 on:** September 13, 2009, 08:59:10 PM »

Steven, it started long before I heard from you (unless "Steven" is a reincarnation of another user name). You are following in the footsteps of other Lane #1 diehards (because "fanboys" upsets you). 3835 is right when he states that it is not so much what you say, rather, how you say it. When I read your posts, I am always left asking myself "Who died and left this guy in charge?". There is nothing wrong with getting behind your favorite product. There IS something wrong with berating people at every opportunity, often when you cannot see that they are attempting to agree with you.

There was one bowler in my local house who had a single Lane #1 ball before I started throwing them. Shortly after I began showing up with a couple different Lane #1 balls, they seemed to slowly catch on. Largely in part because I am in pretty good with the proprieter/pro-shop operator and recommended he check out brand. I was proud of the product I was using and was happy to turn other guys on to the brand. I would get on this forum and provide answers to questions and ball comparisons. I mean really, how many guys were able to compare just about any two Lane #1 balls on a moments notice? How many guys have over 60 different Lane #1 drilled and ready to go RIGHT NOW?

One day after taking a good bashing for defending why I was using the product I was using, I had enough. I had drilled a couple balls from other companies and knew I could score just as well with them. It was time to devote my time to people who wanted to listen, not to people who want to shoot you if you say "The Buzzbomb did not perform as well as I expected". Every Lane #1 ball I owned went on eBay right then and there EXCEPT for the only unique piece they offer. If I could a plastic ball from another company that produced the same reaction as the XXXL, I would sell my last Lane #1 ball.

Steven, I have a question for you. Since my average has climbed after unloading my Lane #1 gear, yet I hold on to the XXXL because I refuse to give up a ball knowing it gives me an advantage, am I a real bowler?
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Jon (in Ohio)
http://lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=177027

TheFreeAgent

Re: Lane1 argument in a nutshell