Post by: Doug Sterner on December 12, 2009, 11:45:57 AM
I drilled one up close to a stacked drill and it didn't have the big snap on the backend like I had expected. So I asked Lane 1 and they told me the Massacore balls acted differently. So I drilled my Red Death and my Bluer Death differently (out of the box thinking as they say) and have been very happy.
So I pulled the Massacre out and redrilled it with pin closer to PAP, low hole and tried it out. Well, the ball isn't doing what I wanted it to now either.
Anybody else been less than impressed with their Massacre?
--------------------
Doug Sterner
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Post by: jkiser01 on December 12, 2009, 07:50:01 PM
Just moved and considered it a ball that was not for me..
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Edited on 12/12/2009 8:56 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 12, 2009, 08:01:51 PM
In fact the ball isn't doing much of anything...it starts to turn at the end like I was hoping but it kind of just flattens out and dies.
The drilling I used: 80 x 2 x 25 with a weighthole located at approximately P3.
As I said the ball isn't doing much of anything at the moment. The layout should give me length with a very quick response to the friction. My XXXL gets a similar reaction to this ball at the moment.
Any thoughts?
--------------------
Doug Sterner
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Post by: Doug Sterner on December 12, 2009, 08:09:58 PM
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Doug Sterner
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Post by: jkiser01 on December 12, 2009, 08:42:34 PM
Thats exactly the reaction me and Tracy were seeing. IT looked like it wanted to turn the corner and then just died..
quote:
In fact the ball isn't doing much of anything...it starts to turn at the end like I was hoping but it kind of just flattens out and dies.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
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My first child.. Hannah Allison Kiser born 4/30/2007... My little angel..
Roto Grip.. King of Them All!!
Storm ain't so bad either!! LOL
I also like AMF/900 Global..
Post by: zeusjr on December 12, 2009, 08:43:33 PM
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Post by: Doug Sterner on December 12, 2009, 08:47:11 PM
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Doug Sterner
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Post by: pro shop guy on December 12, 2009, 08:56:56 PM
Post by: triggerman on December 12, 2009, 09:17:27 PM
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Post by: amazinmetz on December 12, 2009, 10:15:57 PM
Post by: No Revs00300 on December 13, 2009, 02:22:47 AM
quote:
well Jim I don't know...I used Mo's Dual Angle on both the Red and Blue Deaths so I used it again on the Massacre and I got nowhere close to my desired reaction.
In fact the ball isn't doing much of anything...it starts to turn at the end like I was hoping but it kind of just flattens out and dies.
The drilling I used: 80 x 2 x 25 with a weighthole located at approximately P3.
As I said the ball isn't doing much of anything at the moment. The layout should give me length with a very quick response to the friction. My XXXL gets a similar reaction to this ball at the moment.
Any thoughts?
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
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Just out of curiosity Doug, why did you go with a two inch pin to pap? If the drilling doesn't promote flare it's really not going to hook. I am not trying to offend you in any way, but isn't a two inch pin to pap in the small flare range. I don't really throw lane 1, but it's symmetrical right?
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 13, 2009, 08:34:43 PM
The 2" pin to PAP should cut the flare and promote the even reaction on the dry that I was looking for. However this ball doesn't ever make the turn in any way shape or form.
I threw it on a lane condition that was just what I wanted it for and the ball never faced up.
Perhaps it was rolling up too early and dying....there were a couple of oil rings on the ball but they were not very defined. In retrospect perhaps the head oil was just flat out gone, causing the ball to roll up and die.
I have a couple of other balls drilled similarly and they do not act anywhere close to this.
I just wonder if the core design with the super heavy flip block is causing this reaction.
I dunno.
--------------------
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Post by: No Revs00300 on December 14, 2009, 09:19:36 AM
Edited on 12/14/2009 10:21 AM
Post by: urbanj51 on December 14, 2009, 10:48:48 AM
quote:
obviously your ending static wts are not 2.90090320902390 oz top, .66886949945845344 oz finger and .9343483483848882842 oz side....if you dont meet these ending statics then the dual angle drill means nothing...maybe urbanlegend, Tslob or bowlerbeotch can help you....
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Correct.
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Post by: car191 on December 15, 2009, 06:10:38 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 15, 2009, 09:54:05 PM
The Massacore balls have a tendency to be very rolly and even and arcy when drilled with a pin closer to PAP than the CG layout. Then on top of that I put the weighthole almost in a double thumb position.
So I put the pin at 2" off the PAP (low flaring position), initial angle of 80* (rolls up late) and then a VAL angle of 25* (quick reaction to the dry). Then I added a hole in the thumb quadrant to "eliminate" thumb weight and some sideweight.
well I ended up with almost an ounce of fingerweight, 3/4 side weight, low flaring pin position, initial angle giving me lots of length....in other words everythign there screams long, long, long....I don't think the ball ever got to the point where it would flip. Add to the weak pin position the lack of ending top weight in the ball and I think I have my answer.
For those of you who are subscribing to the "statics don't matter" camp I am plugging the weighthole (which is in an aggressive position...approx 6" from the pin) andn am going to relocate it more around the bottom of the ball. This will still remove the necessary weights to make USBC happy and possibly preserve top weight in the ball.
If the new position of the hole gives me the reaction I want I guess I'll have to report it as a confirmed "statics matter" experiment.
I will report back Thursday after league....
--------------------
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Post by: Doug Sterner on December 17, 2009, 11:25:00 PM
Without the hole in the ball it had the following statics:
Gross wt: 14# 15 oz
Side wt: 1-5/8 oz
Finger wt: 5/8 oz
Top wt: 1/4 oz
So all I needed to do was put the hole in the ball to get rid of the excess side weight and all is good.
After speaking with Richie at Lane 1 I decided to put the hole on the midline 9" from my grip center. This will remove the needed side weight but will also help preserve what little top wt remains.
So I addded a 3/4 x 2" hole. This brought the statics to the following numbers:
Gross wt: 14# 14 oz
Side wt: 3/4 oz
Finger wt: 5/8 oz
Top wt: 3/8 oz
To test the ball I took it out on a similar shot to what I had before. Well, all I can say is, this made a huge difference. The ball now projects down the lane very well but now has a very pronounced move on the backend. Once the ball changes direction it flattens out and rolls into the pocket. I threw 6 or 7 shots with the ball and left 5 or 6 9 counts. So the ball is working much better than it did before but still not optimal.
So there we have it....I hate to bash the naysayers but the proof is in the pudding boys...statics matter. The new weighthole is smaller and in a less aggressive position than the original hole and yet the new hole position generates a much stronger ball reaction. The P-3 positioned hole SHOULD have created more differential and therefore more hook but it did not.
I need to play around a bit more with the surface to get it just right but I think the ball is going to fit in where I want it to now....
--------------------
Doug Sterner
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Post by: sawman1 on December 19, 2009, 02:06:36 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 19, 2009, 06:48:40 PM
The BuzzBomb is the thing legends are made of in my hands. The problem many had with the BuzzBomb is that it's an aggressive cover wrapped around an aggressive core and what many people did was drill it too aggressively.
My ball started with 4-3/4 top wt and I drilled it 5x4 with the pin over the ring and the ball is an absolute beast.
I now have a grasp on the Massacre, I just need to get some games on the ball and get the coverstock where I want it.
The Massacore is a great core...my Red and Blue Deaths are just awesome balls.
The best core Lane 1 has had out recently though (in my opinion) is the WAS core from the G Force line....a close 2nd is the SuperNova core.
Again, just my opinion.
--------------------
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Post by: sawman1 on December 19, 2009, 09:11:00 PM
Edited on 12/19/2009 10:12 PM
Post by: bowlerdawg on December 24, 2009, 09:38:57 AM
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X
Post by: 300thirsty on December 24, 2009, 09:51:57 AM
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 24, 2009, 05:44:09 PM
Once I got it thru my head that this ball was not going to be a stand left, throw the ball right and let the ball come back left type of ball I was locked in. I had to tighten everything up and the ball reacted exactly the way I wanted it to. It gets long, makes it's move and then lays off at the pocket.
I am going to redrill my Red Death a bit more aggressive since the Blue Death fills my medium oil ball slot VERY well.
I can't wait to see if Lane 1 brings out another ball with this core...I think I am starting to find a groove with the Massacore balls.
More testing to follow later.....
--------------------
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Post by: Zef Olantar on January 02, 2010, 11:44:08 PM
quote:
Well sawman what I can tell you is that the Dynamo did me no favors...although i may have given up on it too quickly.
The BuzzBomb is the thing legends are made of in my hands. The problem many had with the BuzzBomb is that it's an aggressive cover wrapped around an aggressive core and what many people did was drill it too aggressively.
My ball started with 4-3/4 top wt and I drilled it 5x4 with the pin over the ring and the ball is an absolute beast.
I now have a grasp on the Massacre, I just need to get some games on the ball and get the coverstock where I want it.
The Massacore is a great core...my Red and Blue Deaths are just awesome balls.
The best core Lane 1 has had out recently though (in my opinion) is the WAS core from the G Force line....a close 2nd is the SuperNova core.
Again, just my opinion.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
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Love this quote, Doug!
I couldn't agree more....the WAS core was awesome and everything that has followed I have been "indifferent" with......I sold my BuzzBOMB (like many, the core didn't agree with me), haven't had much success with my Dynamo's (yes, I have two!), Agent Orange and the Massacre just isn't doing it for me. I do have a high pin (1" above ring finger - with CG kicked out only 1/2" and NO X-hole), but I truly expected it to do more than what it does. My best reacting SAWS are the ones with the WAS core and the older Brunswick made SAWS like the Enriched Uranium, H2O Tsunami, Black Cherry Bomb, Solid Cobalt and Golden Nugget. Sure would love to bring back some of those older cores......my drill press would be HUMMING and I'd be spending big coin on new carbide drill bits !!!
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Post by: triggerman on January 04, 2010, 10:50:28 AM
quote:quote:
Well sawman what I can tell you is that the Dynamo did me no favors...although i may have given up on it too quickly.
The BuzzBomb is the thing legends are made of in my hands. The problem many had with the BuzzBomb is that it's an aggressive cover wrapped around an aggressive core and what many people did was drill it too aggressively.
My ball started with 4-3/4 top wt and I drilled it 5x4 with the pin over the ring and the ball is an absolute beast.
I now have a grasp on the Massacre, I just need to get some games on the ball and get the coverstock where I want it.
The Massacore is a great core...my Red and Blue Deaths are just awesome balls.
The best core Lane 1 has had out recently though (in my opinion) is the WAS core from the G Force line....a close 2nd is the SuperNova core.
Again, just my opinion.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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Love this quote, Doug!
I couldn't agree more....the WAS core was awesome and everything that has followed I have been "indifferent" with......I sold my BuzzBOMB (like many, the core didn't agree with me), haven't had much success with my Dynamo's (yes, I have two!), Agent Orange and the Massacre just isn't doing it for me. I do have a high pin (1" above ring finger - with CG kicked out only 1/2" and NO X-hole), but I truly expected it to do more than what it does. My best reacting SAWS are the ones with the WAS core and the older Brunswick made SAWS like the Enriched Uranium, H2O Tsunami, Black Cherry Bomb, Solid Cobalt and Golden Nugget. Sure would love to bring back some of those older cores......my drill press would be HUMMING and I'd be spending big coin on new carbide drill bits !!!
--------------------
"You may not like it now........but you will LEARN to like it!"
George P.
PRO SHOP 300
Winnipeg, MB
CANADA
Just my two cents if you havent tried the Blue or Red deaths yet, you are selling yourself short, I am also one of those that loves the old Big b covered balls, but these two are extremely versitle and make me forget about those older ones
On edit: look for something very sexy from lane 1 very very soon
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Post by: Doug Sterner on January 04, 2010, 12:48:40 PM
--------------------
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