Post by: holland1945 on April 21, 2009, 10:18:37 AM
That's all.
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Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 06:25:11 PM
no more need for ball of the year contest ?
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 06:29:46 PM
just curious
trying to stir the proverbial pot again ?
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Buddy Christ on April 21, 2009, 06:33:43 PM
"Best ball ever made!" <-- That takes some gall.
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M16`s for Jesus Christ
-Sean
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 06:41:48 PM
quote:
look, it might be the best ball ever made, but its not the ball of the year...that belongs to the dynamo...
the last true ball of the year before its owned by the red alien
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Robadat on April 21, 2009, 06:46:13 PM
quote:INCONCEIVABLE!!!
someone has worse ads than Lane #1
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Post by: holland1945 on April 21, 2009, 06:49:35 PM
quote:
why not put this thread in the elite section where it belongs ?
just curious
trying to stir the proverbial pot again ?
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I'm your huckleberry
Because I'm making a comparison to Lane #1's marketing, and proving a point that I (nor anyone else) has nothing against Lane #1 IN PARTICULAR (or at least, not to begin with), just their business practices.
But essentially, the difference between Elite and Lane #1 is the size of their intarweb mob force. Both use old symmetric cores with new (sometimes) covers and sell for too much money with lots of razzle dazzle marketing. Both have had limited PBA success. Both are nevertheless fine products, but if you're going to claim to be the best, it better be objectively demonstratively so, such as statistically significant levels of improved performance as compared to a well-defined norm (impossible in the world of bowling, for Lane #1 or anyone else), or some other means independent of the parent company's marketing (in this case tournament wins and/or awards from an unbiased 3rd party could be 2 examples but is not limited to this).
--------------------
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Post by: Steven on April 21, 2009, 06:51:53 PM
quote:
Numerous tests were conducted to make what Elite feels is the best ball produced by any company ever!
What's so offensive about this statement? This is Elite's opinion about their Red Alien. Kudos to them for having the cojones to make such a strong statement about their equipment.
And kudos to Lane#1 for feeling strong enough about the Dynamo to pronounce it their ball of the year.
I don't know why the same set of people keep getting their panties bunched up over some simple promotional statements. If they're way over the edge, the balls will be exposed soon enough on the lanes. That's the only place it matters.
Edited on 4/21/2009 6:53 PM
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 06:58:16 PM
trolls heads are exploding everywhere
get your boots on boys
its gonna get deep
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: holland1945 on April 21, 2009, 07:10:04 PM
quote:
Took this off the Elite website:
quote:
Numerous tests were conducted to make what Elite feels is the best ball produced by any company ever!
What's so offensive about this statement? This is Elite's opinion about their Red Alien. Kudos to them for having the cojones to make such a strong statement about their equipment.
1. What were the tests? Details?
2. By what basis did it judge this ball to be "the best ever"?
This is no different than a proud father thinking his 5 year old is going to be the next Picasso because he made a turkey for Thanksgiving by tracing his hand with fingerpaints.
quote:
And kudos to Lane#1 for feeling strong enough about the Dynamo to pronounce it their ball of the year.
They did not pronounce it "their" ball of the year, as jls has repeated ad nauseum. They pronounced it "ball of the year" nonspecific to Lane #1, which is where the dig lies.
quote:
I don't know why the same set of people keep getting their panties bunched up over some simple promotional statements. If they're way over the edge, the balls will be exposed soon enough on the lanes. That's the only place it matters.
Not really, in the case of Lane #1 and Elite. Well, I can't speak for Elite, but with Lane #1 you have a bunch of 2nd drill ebay buyer ball collectors proclaiming unreleased balls to be the hardest hitting ball ever, when prospective customers come to the forum. You will almost never see a Lane #1 fanboy recommend another brand, yet I frequently see Brunswick fans suggest that bowlers check out Storm if they're looking for skid snappier balls than Brunswick produces (for example). Brunswick and Ebonite release product that pushes the technical envelope in an attempt to meet customer needs, wants, and expectations, while Lane #1 cycles through a pearl/solid/particle cycle only to push product through the channel.
Everyone's out to sell balls. The "beef" is that some companies are clearly out to do more than that, and some aren't. Lane #1 falls into the 2nd category.
Edited on 4/21/2009 6:53 PM[/quote]
--------------------
*** MoRich, Quantum, Brunswick 15# for sale - http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=231393&ForumID=26&CategoryID=12 ***
Support REAL change and REAL conservative politics in America:
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Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 07:11:40 PM
just curious
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 07:20:42 PM
quote:quote:
why are you talking about an elite ball in the L1 section
just curious
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I'm your huckleberry
Read the 7th post down...
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Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....
you actually read or are you just reaching for straws
i read it, and then it seems somehow we got off track
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 07:26:11 PM
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 07:32:22 PM
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 21, 2009, 07:35:16 PM
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Brickguy221 on April 21, 2009, 10:04:58 PM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BANG !!!!!!!!!!!!!
trolls heads are exploding everywhere
get your boots on boys
its gonna get deep
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I'm your huckleberry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No need.... Inverted 1 has spread enough around already.
Fixed....
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: mrfox101 on April 21, 2009, 11:07:03 PM
Looks like a basic diamond shape with a flip block to me...bomb core anyone?
--------------------
Throwin' Saws...
Buzzsaw THS x2
G-Force Evolution
G-Force Supernova
Dirty Bomb x2
Buzzbomb
Crystal Clear
& a Solid Uranium on the way (thx Bowlerdawg!)
Edited on 4/21/2009 11:09 PM
Post by: jbuzz31 on April 21, 2009, 11:12:22 PM
quote:C
anybody (besides me) think the general shape of the Elite - Red Alien core looks kinda familier?
Looks like a basic diamond shape with a flip block to me...bomb core anyone?
Not really..........looks alot like most of C300 cores from the late 90's to the buy out. The same generic cylinder shape that looks like its been put on a lathe
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 09:05:09 AM
quote:
Steven spread it all over the place on this one..
Inverted: I gave an honest 'family friendly'
response, and your assessment is that I spread it all over the place....I'm hurt.Look at this logically. Would you rather read the opinion of manufacturer professionals, or an army of Holland/THB's who struggle to score, yet stuff the ballot box for pronouncing the 'ball of the year'?
Neither is scientific. Frankly, anything short of a Consumer Reports type of product evaluation leaves much to be desired. But in the absence of that, I don't have an issue with any company singing the phrases of the greatness of their equipment.
It's just marketing. Focusing on it ad nauseam reflects a mental weakness that is probably reflected on the lanes. You're better that that.
Edited on 4/22/2009 9:05 AM
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 10:12:10 AM
quote:
Wow..didn't mean to hurt your feelings..
Yep, just made a session with a therapist. It could get expensive..
quote:
To me, you're giving the green light for deceptive advertising and even phrasing it.
True, there is a fine line between the two, but Richie (and Elite) definitely crossed the lines..
Honestly, when you read the fictitious letter from Richie to the USBC that the lanes need to be 5 boards wider for the Dynamo, it's nothing but a parody. He's just trying to make the point that the ball hooks. There is nothing 'deceptive' when you keep it in context. You can dig up other offenses, but it's really all the same. You know it, I know it, and the population of rational thinking bowlers know it..
Again, in the absence of an independent product review company like Consumer Reports, anything beyond the publication of technical specs is pure entertainment. Keep perspective, and you'll get the added bonus of less stress and a longer life.
Edited on 4/22/2009 10:21 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 22, 2009, 10:18:39 AM
Problems..
Regards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Brickguy221 on April 22, 2009, 10:19:14 AM
quote:
To me, you're giving the green light for deceptive advertising and even phrasing it.
True, there is a fine line between the two, but Richie (and Elite) definitely crossed the lines..
Inverted 1, you've been whinning and moaning about this advertising thing for months if not years. Yet, your whinning and moaning has never changed anything nor is it ever going to change anything and you know it by now, so why do you keep it up? All it has accomplished for you is it has caused you to get a lot of enemies. It has also caused people like myself to lose respect for you. I once really liked you and had a lot of respect for you, but all of your worthless whinning and moaning the past several months has caused me to lose that respect for you.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 10:22:12 AM
quote:
Took this off the Elite website:
quote:
Numerous tests were conducted to make what Elite feels is the best ball produced by any company ever!
What's so offensive about this statement? This is Elite's opinion about their Red Alien. Kudos to them for having the cojones to make such a strong statement about their equipment.
And kudos to Lane#1 for feeling strong enough about the Dynamo to pronounce it their ball of the year.
I don't know why the same set of people keep getting their panties bunched up over some simple promotional statements. If they're way over the edge, the balls will be exposed soon enough on the lanes. That's the only place it matters.
Edited on 4/21/2009 6:53 PM
Why is it these companies with this fake swagger don't even produce the whole product in house??
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 10:32:39 AM
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Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Edited on 4/22/2009 10:42 AM
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 10:33:53 AM
quote:
Why is it these companies with this fake swagger don't even produce the whole product in house??
NorCal: What does this have to do with anything? Do any of the companies chemically formulate their resins? NO. Varying degrees of the process are always performed by others.
Lane#1 comes up with their own core designs, and then they work with 900Global on the right cover formulation. All that matters is that the final product hits the mark. In Lane#1's case, they have a very good track record.
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 10:46:43 AM
quote:quote:
Why is it these companies with this fake swagger don't even produce the whole product in house??
NorCal: What does this have to do with anything? Do any of the companies chemically formulate their resins? NO. Varying degrees of the process are always performed by others.
Lane#1 comes up with their own core designs, and then they work with 900Global on the right cover formulation. All that matters is that the final product hits the mark. In Lane#1's case, they have a very good track record.
Nope, alot of companies have inhouse chemists that formulate the covers.
Oh, how much ball reaction comes from the core again?
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 10:56:54 AM
quote:
Oh, how much ball reaction comes from the core again?
I'm guessing more than you understand at this point.
I've never been a big fan of trying to assign numbers to cover vs. core. There are too many variables to come up with a 'one size fits all' percentage that's cranked out in watered down articles. The fact is that they're integrated and work together in tandem.
The diamond based cores provide for a unique type of roll. Individual bowlers will take advantage of it differently.
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 10:58:40 AM
quote:
most of it, surface doesnt matter remember...its about the spinning diamond and ending statics....
LOL!!
To me it's like saying cause you went to the car dealership and picked out all the options and colors you made the car...
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 11:14:48 AM
quote:quote:
Oh, how much ball reaction comes from the core again?
I'm guessing more than you understand at this point.
I've never been a big fan of trying to assign numbers to cover vs. core. There are too many variables to come up with a 'one size fits all' percentage that's cranked out in watered down articles. The fact is that they're integrated and work together in tandem.
The diamond based cores provide for a unique type of roll. Individual bowlers will take advantage of it differently.
Well let's see. Unless the core is 51% or more of the ball's reaction then it really is a smaller factor then you always bring up. Does it mean all you throw is a Crystal Diamond then? It has a diamond core in it. Yes the core plays a factor in the ball but not as much as you always say/believe.
I can stick a pancake core in the AMB Centaur Particle cover and it's gonna outhook the crystal diamond.
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 11:15:23 AM
quote:
To me it's like saying cause you went to the car dealership and picked out all the options and colors you made the car...
NorCal: You appear to be living proof of the shambled California public school system.
Lane#1 designs their own cores. They figure out all the core specifics they want to achieve (RG's, differentials, flip blocks, etc.), and then work with 900Global to tweak cover formulations to get the desired effect. That's hardly a 'mix and match at the car dealership' exercise.
BTW, what Lane#1 balls do you throw again??
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 11:39:55 AM
quote:quote:
To me it's like saying cause you went to the car dealership and picked out all the options and colors you made the car...
NorCal: You appear to be living proof of the shambled California public school system.
Lane#1 designs their own cores. They figure out all the core specifics they want to achieve (RG's, differentials, flip blocks, etc.), and then work with 900Global to tweak cover formulations to get the desired effect. That's hardly a 'mix and match at the car dealership' exercise.
BTW, what Lane#1 balls do you throw again??
Yeah it sucks that I live in a liberal bleeding heart POS state, but now you are off topic...
I think Lane 1 doesn't really put much work into the cover formulations cause hey! They have the super magic diamond core! Why should they?!?!
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 11:44:37 AM
quote:quote:
To me it's like saying cause you went to the car dealership and picked out all the options and colors you made the car...
NorCal: You appear to be living proof of the shambled California public school system.
Lane#1 designs their own cores. They figure out all the core specifics they want to achieve (RG's, differentials, flip blocks, etc.), and then work with 900Global to tweak cover formulations to get the desired effect. That's hardly a 'mix and match at the car dealership' exercise.
BTW, what Lane#1 balls do you throw again??
Oh yeah, if you have looked in the lane 1 for sale section recently I have sold a bunch of new and used lane 1 equipment. Have no desire to throw it. I even have access to a blueberry, no desire to throw one. Cause to me it's not just the core it's the whole friggin package!
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 22, 2009, 11:59:57 AM
quote:
i know people who say your visionary balls suck,, i have never thrown them so i have no opinion on them,, if we like lane 1 thats our choice leave us alone so we can have productive conversations about the equipment we use and like .. thank you
I'm glad you have a product you enjoy. Now, where did I say lane 1 balls suck?
I'm trying to understand how just with lane 1 equipment is supposedly beyond all other ball companies and the core matters more then a cover.
--------------------
Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
_______________________________________________
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/NorCalBowler/visionary/
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 12:21:07 PM
quote:
I'm trying to understand how just with lane 1 equipment is supposedly beyond all other ball companies
Those are your words -- they're not part of anything said in this thread. Take that chip off your shoulder and things will come easier.
quote:
I'm trying to understand....... and (how) the core matters more then a cover.
I've read much about your experimentation on cover preparation. Nice work on what you've posted. I do a lot of experimentation on cover refinishing myself. So in that process, I'm sure you've found that there are many cover alterations you can do to get desired friction. The right amount of friction is one of the holy grails of what we're trying to accomplish.
As you know, with a versatile OOB medium reaction resin, you can do a lot. With the right prep, you can cover a good part of matching to 75-80% of lane conditions you see.
But what's missing in all that prep is achieving desired hook shape. I can usual play with the cover to get the appropriate friction characteristics, but hook shape is determined largely by core and drilling. Once you get the friction down (and assuming you know what you're doing), the right hook shape can be the difference between averaging 200 and 220.
Optimally, this all works in harmony together -- surface, core, drill. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. The Lane#1 diamond core puts it's own stamp on the hook shape. There are those of us who recognize it and use it to our advantage.
If you get the same from Visionary, all the more power to you.
Post by: Brickguy221 on April 22, 2009, 02:00:21 PM
quote:
Because it makes for good discussion.,.
All it does is create mud slinging and name calling. If that is what you think, then you definitely don't know what good discussion is.
quote:
Look, if you can't handle someone who doesn't believe in the stuff that spread around here that goes down as the "truth" then I'm sorry.
It doesn't have anything to do with handling the truth. It is about going on and on and on and etc. like a broken record about a stupid subject to begin with, while it is never going to change anything. I feel sorry for you that you must live in such misery that you can't let it go.
quote:
If you lost respect for what I'm saying, then again, I'm sorry.
Lost respect for you as a person as I once thought you were a really respectably nice person, but the things you whine about point out that I was wrong.
quote:
But, that's not going to change what I feel is nothing more than snake oil promises and flat out fraud/deception on Lane#1's part.
I and am sure others also, are sorry you feel that way. I think you simply go overboard in looking at what Lane 1 says. It is no different than a car manufacturer saying a certain car will get 29 mpg highway driving and a person buys one expecting that and it only gets 26 mpg and never coming close to 29 mpg. I know as I own one like that, but I don't whine and moan the rest of my life about it.
quote:
Everyone on this board supports these lies because (IMHO) that's the only way they can justify spending a premium price for a ball.
You don't seem to understand that if people want to pay a premimum price for a ball, then that is their business and money and not yours, so it is of no concern of yours.
quote:
Seems common sense and the laws of nature quicly get tossed out the window due to the "special" nature of the miraculous diamond core.
I have yet to see where anyone has called the Lane 1 Core a "miraculous core", other than the whiners and trolls themselves. I formerly had an Enriched Uranium. In fact you suggested this ball to me for the condition I was looking for and you were accurate with your suggestion. That ball rolled and carried great and I loved it and it's core, but I don't call it a miracle core although it did roll really great for me.
quote:
Yes, I've poked fun at all you Lane#1 folks. So what?
FYI, I do currently own 2 Lane 1 balls plus 5 balls from 4 other companies. My first out of the bag balls are currently 2 Ebonite not Lane 1, so I am not a "Lane 1 Folks" although I could have been 2 years ago with the EU and Solid Cobalt Bomb, 2 of the better balls I have ever had along with an AMF Heist.
quote:
What would you like? To be like BBE where everyone is doing nothing but mutually back patting everyone for shelling out tons of $$ for a bowling ball who performance is mediocure at best (at least for me).
I would like for this site to return to a normal site full of informative, cooperative and get along-type people with no whiners and trolls like it was 5-6 years ago when I joined. It was always a pleasure back then to come to this site to ask questions, seek information, and get help with no whiners and trolls slinging their sh!t all over this site as they do today. If you have paid attention, you will note that their have been lots of informative-well respected people that have left this site because of what goes on today.
--------------------
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 02:23:03 PM
quote:
What would you like? To be like BBE where everyone is doing nothing but mutually back patting everyone for shelling out tons of $$ for a bowling ball who performance is mediocre at best (at least for me).
Inverted: Sounds like a plan to me.
Look, I just sensed the hair stand up on your back (I hope it was hair) when I mentioned 'unique' hook shape. I never said it was overt. It's subtle, but it's there never the less. Some might find advantage in it -- others won't. But denying it doesn't change the reality of it's existence.
You have a unique bowling style. It's the combination of the way you come around the ball, coupled with your slightly slower ball speed. Your ball doesn't get into a roll as fast as other techniques. I'm not passing judgement, because I can see conditions where you could eat the lanes up. But from a roll perspective, you're generally not going to get the full benefit of a heavy rolling diamond.
I bowl league with a guy who is similar in style to you (more exaggerated rotation), and he looks terrible with his Uranium. The ball just doesn't recover to the roll phase with any strength.
So for you, I can understand your perspective. But by no means are your conclusions universal.
Post by: Steven on April 22, 2009, 02:47:05 PM
quote:
When did you see me bowl
Recently. In fairness, it wasn't for long. I'd need to watch you for longer stretches to talk beyond what I wrote. Honestly, with all your perspectives on Lane#1 brain washing, I had to get a visual to see why you feel as strongly as you do. I'll stop in again when time permits. I might even say hi....
Personally, I want your opinions and objectives. But it always comes down to kool-aid, and never allowing that there might be something to the Lane#1 thing.
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 22, 2009, 10:10:19 PM
--------------------
I'm your huckleberry
Post by: mrfox101 on April 23, 2009, 09:02:23 AM
The entire thrust of advertising is brand awareness and to get people to recognize and talk about your product...for good or bad...
because if people are busy trying to talk down YOUR product...that means they're too busy to talk UP anybody else's...
Wow...the marketing guy at Lane #1 is worth his weight in GOLD!!!
And my next set of claims on the next ball would be just as out there and un-provable as I could put it!!!
--------------------
Throwin' Saws...
Buzzsaw THS x2
G-Force Evolution
G-Force Supernova
Dirty Bomb x2
Buzzbomb
Crystal Clear
& a Solid Uranium on the way (thx Bowlerdawg!)
Edited on 4/23/2009 9:07 AM
Edited on 4/23/2009 9:10 AM
Post by: Steven on April 23, 2009, 11:13:43 AM
quote:
I've nevered condemed him for his opinion, just told him he was wrong..
So now, I'm pretty sure that he know I'm not some hack and do have some skills to know what I'm talking about and I was looking for intelligent feedback on my game. I check my ego at the door when someone trys to help me out. You should do the same..
Inverted: You have been respectful in making it clear to me that you think I'm wrong. I've tried to do the same with you, making sure that you understand that your 'double' wrong.
As far as your bowling, part of me wanted to be able to report back that you're a hopeless hack who uses ballreviews to fulfill unattainable bowling fantasies. Unfortunately, I can't. You looked to be fundamentally sound, you repeated shots, and you seem to have a good grasp of what you were doing on the lanes. You didn't kick the ball return or scream at your teammates. Yea, we have to work on your coming around the ball a little too soon
and work even harder on understanding the Lane#1 thing, but you're OK. As CRD once told me, you can be my ball caddy anytime.....
Post by: Steven on April 23, 2009, 11:49:40 AM
quote:
I really mean this. Please describe the unique hook shape that the diamond core gives you. How far down the lane it starts, what vector angles are involved, etc.
CRD: The 'unique hook shape' I see is a very subtle thing. There is no magic formula that I can provide for how far is starts down the lane. Also, I can't provide the math associated with what vector angles are involved. It's all variable anyway. The specific Lane#1 ball involved and the lane conditions in play are going to result in different looks.
The constant I see across their line-up is the relatively smooth transition from skid to hook to roll. It doesn't matter if it's a low-RG rolly piece, or one of the higher-RG pieces that have more of a skid/snap reaction. Again, it's subtle, but it leads to a predictability of reaction that for me has really improved my scoring. I really did go from a constant 220 THS to 230+ after transitioning to Lane#1 for most of my bowling. Not bad for a physically broken down guy whose bowling has seen better days. Posters like to poke fun at me for saying it, but the kool-aid really did work.
I've never said other equipment is not good. I still have a Columbia/Hammer/Ebonite arsenal that's larger and more diverse than most of the believers of those brands possess. There are some great individual pieces in those line-ups that have their place. I don't drink so much kool-aid that I don't recognize this.
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 23, 2009, 12:20:03 PM
you just group us all in the same category of 160 average bowlers is a weeee bit prejudicial
now having said that i do agree it does substantially help lower average bowlers, but whats wrong w/ that ?
it can give them confidence to actually put the time in to become better
quote:quote:
The constant I see across their line-up is the relatively smooth transition from skid to hook to roll. It doesn't matter if it's a low-RG rolly piece, or one of the higher-RG pieces that have more of a skid/snap reaction. Again, it's subtle, but it leads to a predictability of reaction that for me has really improved my scoring. I really did go from a constant 220 THS to 230+ after transitioning to Lane#1 for most of my bowling. Not bad for a physically broken down guy whose bowling has seen better days. Posters like to poke fun at me for saying it, but the kool-aid really did work.
If I could see any of this, I'd be swallowing kool-aide by the gallons and worshopping at the Diamond altar myself.
Unfortunately, I don't..but I have tried
Steven MAY have a point because I do track high and have an inverted track..BUT most of the people I see using Lane#1 and taking advantage of it's properties (if there is such thing) are generally low-rev bowler averaging about 160 - 180 who praise it to no end due to the fact that the strong core will rev early for them and given more "hook". For example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGt1-HU7HbU&feature=related
I really don't need more hook.
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President and founding member of Lucky Lefty's ball of the week club!!
Motto: We have more balls than you!!
Edited on 4/23/2009 12:09 PM
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: holland1945 on April 23, 2009, 05:51:46 PM
quote:
BD,
Please note I said MOST, not all and again, it's based on what and who I've seen use lane one equipment. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it
I believe that it's this type of bowler that Lane#1 balls help the most
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President and founding member of Lucky Lefty's ball of the week club!!
Motto: We have more balls than you!!
Edited on 4/23/2009 12:25 PM
Those bowlers would be helped more by lessons and gym time though
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Post by: JessN16 on April 23, 2009, 06:11:31 PM
quote:
I really mean this. Please describe the unique hook shape that the diamond core gives you. How far down the lane it starts, what vector angles are involved, etc.
There's nothing really tricky about Lane #1's hook shapes. From the Diamond core, it's heavy midlane, heavy roll, controlled breakpoint. I can get a similar look out of a lot of different balls (Brunswick Sidewinder most notably). I can also get this from certain balls from most other companies, too, but the consistency seems to be better with Lane #1, as does the carry due to, in my observation, less deflection in the pin deck (or more stability through the roll).
These balls do not do tricks downlane. For me, that's a good thing. It's fun to watch a ball go 90 degrees left but I can't score with that, as a general rule. Not consistently. The big difference for me is not in hook shape but the carry and lack of deflection.
Once you move to the Bomb core, though, things change. That core is more angular for me. Carry isn't nearly as good. Balls with that core are too condition-specific.
The WAS and Fusion cores are somewhat of a mix. More controllable than the Bomb, better carry than the Bomb, not as controllable as the Diamond and more in-deck deflection than the Diamond. The Doomsday core is very much like the Diamond but doesn't start up as soon. I have not thrown whatever it is they call the cores in the Chainsaw and Dynamo.
I don't need a lot of help to make a ball turn left, so the way the Diamond balls smooth out the edges is a big help to me. Plus I'm shooting far fewer corner pins than I used to.
Jess
Post by: Steven on April 23, 2009, 06:38:28 PM
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 23, 2009, 06:43:57 PM
so your going back 2 years ago
before you showed up...........wow im gonna go bury my head in the sand
literally
quote:quote:
spoooooooooooooooooky
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I'm your huckleberry
Before you showed up, there used to be some good conversation between Steven and the rest of the lane one peeps.
I've nevered condemed him for his opinion, just told him he was wrong..
So now, I'm pretty sure that he know I'm not some hack and do have some skills to know what I'm talking about and I was looking for intelligent feedback on my game. I check my ego at the door when someone trys to help me out. You should do the same..
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Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Kid Jete on April 23, 2009, 07:20:25 PM
Post by: bowlerdawg on April 23, 2009, 07:32:25 PM
quote:
At least Elite didn't go HERE (http://"http://fridaythe13thmovie.com/media/downloads/wallpapers/get_wallpaper.html?image=1280/wallpaper_1-1280x1024_np.jpg") and STEAL someone elses work to put together an advertisement.
so there is a copyright on a hockey mask ?
is that what i am hearing you say ?
ay least L1 doesn't steal /re use others cores ?
just a thought
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I'm your huckleberry
Post by: Brickguy221 on April 23, 2009, 11:42:51 PM
quote:
Once you move to the Bomb core, though, things change. That core is more angular for me. Carry isn't nearly as good. Balls with that core are too condition-specific.
I had the Solid Cobalt with the Dirty Bomb Core and that was one of my all time favorite balls. The carry for me was the opposite of what you describe here. It mixed pins and carried great for me plus it seemed to love carry-down.
Now with the newer Doomsday2 Bomb Core, for me the hit and carry are good also, but these core cover combinations are a bit condition specific and unpredictable at times, at least for me. I do like my AO, but it isn't an everyday ball, at least not for me like my Ebonite Gamemaker and Playmaker is.
I've had my best luck with the AO with the cover as it came NIB. In fact I really liked it. Since I've tried other grits and polishes and don't like what they have done for me as well as when it was NIB, so I am going to try to get the cover back as close as I can to the NIB condition.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: JessN16 on April 24, 2009, 12:56:18 AM
quote:quote:
Once you move to the Bomb core, though, things change. That core is more angular for me. Carry isn't nearly as good. Balls with that core are too condition-specific.
I had the Solid Cobalt with the Dirty Bomb Core and that was one of my all time favorite balls. The carry for me was the opposite of what you describe here. It mixed pins and carried great for me plus it seemed to love carry-down.
Now with the newer Doomsday2 Bomb Core, for me the hit and carry are good also, but these core cover combinations are a bit condition specific and unpredictable at times, at least for me. I do like my AO, but it isn't an everyday ball, at least not for me like my Ebonite Gamemaker and Playmaker is.
I've had my best luck with the AO with the cover as it came NIB. In fact I really liked it. Since I've tried other grits and polishes and don't like what they have done for me as well as when it was NIB, so I am going to try to get the cover back as close as I can to the NIB condition.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Did you like the Diamond cores? In my experience, if you matched up well with the Diamond, you probably weren't going to like the Bomb or DB cores, and vice versa.
Jess
Post by: Brickguy221 on April 24, 2009, 11:36:09 AM
quote:
Did you like the Diamond cores? In my experience, if you matched up well with the Diamond, you probably weren't going to like the Bomb or DB cores, and vice versa.
I had the EU and still have the Red XXXL. Both work/worked well for me. The EU worked good for me on a fresh THS playing along the oil line for about 1 to 1 1/2 games at the most, (I don't have a lot of hand or revs) and when the lanes started breaking down and carry down involved, it lost it's "pop" on the back-end and the Solid Cobalt took over and was at it's best here. On a fresh THS, the Solid Cobalt was a bit jumpy for the first game. My lower revs didn't seem to be a problem with the Solid Cobalt, but are a problem with the AO. When I can up my revs a bit, the AO moves really well as hits hard and carries great, but when I throw with the same revs as I do that works well with my Ebonite Gamemaker, Playmaker, AMF Heist, and the Solid Cobalt I used to have (and wish I still had it) it doesn't move well at all for me. The original Bomb Core seems to work better for me than the new Doomsday2 Bomb Core.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick