Post by: charlest on October 18, 2003, 01:51:10 AM
I have a medium to medium-heavy scratch league in which I am fooling around with several balls so far. The oil pattern has varied significantly more than the past few years from the lighter side of medium to the heavier side of medium-heavy.
I have slightly better than average rev rate (some say much higher than average) but would never be considered a cranker. Speed is medium to medium-slow, depending on the condition and the balls I have with me.
Lane#1 has the Cranberry which seems like it would be too weak and the Black Cherry Bomb whose core seems WAY TOO Strong for me. The Blueberry is not available.
What do the Lane#1 experts think ?
I've already asked Doug Sterner for prices on these two balls. So, Doug, feel free to chime in.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: Jeffrevs on October 18, 2003, 05:13:29 PM
what do you use now for this league ??
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JEFF
I won't miss this 10 pin, I won't I won't I won't
Post by: T-GOD on October 18, 2003, 05:16:43 PM
With the Cranberry, I would go with a CG out leverage, i.e. 4 1/2 x 3, ending with a 3 to 2 ratio top to side. This will make it fairly strong and controllable. Adjusting the cover on this ball can do wonders. =:^D
Post by: charlest on October 18, 2003, 05:27:36 PM
quote:
charlest,
what do you use now for this league ??
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JEFF
I won't miss this 10 pin, I won't I won't I won't
I've used a Fire Quantum drilled 5x5.5, pin over ring finger (good on medium to medium heavy, not good on heavier medium-heavy,
Power Surge, drilled 4x5, pin under ring finger (STRONG ball; it IS an oiler)
Revolution Renegade, drilled 5x4, pin under ring finger, on a medium condition.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: charlest on October 18, 2003, 05:30:38 PM
quote:
On medium lane conditions, you could probably get both balls to work. I would drill the Black Cherry Bomb CG axis with a 4" pin, under the ring finger, hole on your axis. This will tame the BCB down a bit, making it more versatile on different conditions.
Pin at 4", CG on PAP/axis??
quote:
With the Cranberry, I would go with a CG out leverage, i.e. 4 1/2 x 3, ending with a 3 to 2 ratio top to side. This will make it fairly strong and controllable. Adjusting the cover on this ball can do wonders. =:^D
I am somewhat familiar with the PK 18 cover.
This is a drilling, almost exactly what I was thinking about with this ball, even though I rarely drill balls this way. Interesting.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: DrBob806 on October 18, 2003, 05:41:42 PM
Post by: Brickguy221 on October 18, 2003, 06:15:31 PM
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In the old days, they used axes to chop up wood...Nowadays, they use "BUZZSAWS".
Post by: DrBob806 on October 18, 2003, 06:51:12 PM
I do know what you're saying, and I admire your loyalty. I also realize this has been debated on this forum in the past. But I still believe that you can take the $30-50 savings from not purchasing a Buzzsaw, and go practice your game more, pay for some resurfacing on other equipment,etc.
Some day I would like to try a Buzzsaw, but the prices are a little too high for me. I never bought a Quantum for the same reasons.
Post by: charlest on October 18, 2003, 07:01:41 PM
I not only am not interested in getting into the price factor at this point in time, I refuse to. If you continue this discussion, you will frustrate what I am trying to achieve. That will annoy me considerably, as we, ballreviews.com inmates, have discussed the price issue ad nauseam. You are late in entering this facet of Lane#1. Please see the other posts in the Lane#1 forum if you are interested in adding to that topic. This thread is most definitely not about that topic.
(edited)
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Edited on 10/18/2003 9:19 PM
Post by: DrBob806 on October 18, 2003, 07:40:04 PM
Post by: T-GOD on October 18, 2003, 10:08:15 PM
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On medium lane conditions, you could probably get both balls to work. I would drill the Black Cherry Bomb CG axis with a 4" pin, under the ring finger, hole on your axis. This will tame the BCB down a bit, making it more versatile on different conditions.
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Pin at 4", CG on PAP/axis??
Why the ? mark Charlest..? This is a very good drilling. You may even like it in a Cranberry. =:^D
Post by: Doug Sterner on October 18, 2003, 10:24:31 PM
Depending on the condition of the backends you may or may not get away with a Cranberry. My Cranberry has me confused. I drilled it the same as my Emerald (4x4) and the Emerald will outhook it 2 to 1. My original impression of the Cranberry was "WOW!!! What an awesome ball!!!!" but recently it has just confused the daylights out of me. Over the summer while I was testing it, the ball was great but once they went to the new oil and new pattern, I can't get the ball to work properly even with significant coverstock work.
My Black Cherry is drilled 4-1/2 x 2-1/4 and it is excellent on anything too heavy for my Emerald.
I do have 1 more NIB Blueberry but it will take considerable begging, pleading and bribery to get it away from me.
Just my $.02
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Diamonds are a bowler's best friend!
Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Post by: charlest on October 19, 2003, 06:20:12 AM
quote:
quote:
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On medium lane conditions, you could probably get both balls to work. I would drill the Black Cherry Bomb CG axis with a 4" pin, under the ring finger, hole on your axis. This will tame the BCB down a bit, making it more versatile on different conditions.
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Pin at 4", CG on PAP/axis??
Why the ? mark Charlest..? This is a very good drilling. You may even like it in a Cranberry. =:^D
T-GOD,
I wasn't questioning your recommendation, although I have never drilled a ball that way before (My speed is too slow for my revs, in my opinion).
I was trying to make sure that is what you meant.
Doug,
When you said,
"My Cranberry has me confused. I drilled it the same as my Emerald (4x4) and the Emerald will outhook it 2 to 1."
did you mean on the same oil pattern?
If so, then I'd worry a lot about using the Cranberry on a league where the oil pattern can vary from medium to medium-heavy.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: Doug Sterner on October 19, 2003, 09:54:37 AM
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Diamonds are a bowler's best friend!
Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Post by: A_P_K on October 19, 2003, 09:01:31 PM
If you speak of Carolier lanes, first I'd like to ask you what line do you play there?
When I bowled there the shot was outside the seven board, is it the same as we've spoke about before?
If the shot hasn't changed I'd be inclined to believe T-GOD and go with the Black Cherry Bomb. It may be possible to use the Cherry Bomb also, with a strong backend drilling. I used the Crimson Executioner up the boards and the backend was strong enough to turn onver at the backend.
You might also be able to use the Carbide Bomb Pearl there, most definitely the Blue Berry but it would be a matter of cover prep/drilling.
I managed to score well with both the Enforcer and the Crimson, so if there's a ball in the Lane 1 line up that's similar to the Enforcer that will work also.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!
Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
Post by: charlest on October 19, 2003, 11:05:23 PM
Yes, it's good ole Carolier. And, yes, I know where the oil line is.
I haven't been able to get as mild a reaction off the dry with a pearl like the Crimson as you have. I have one that's drilled on the mild side that I tried 2 weeks ago, the Red/Black Monster, but I was too inconsistent with my release for it. I have another, an Igniter, drilled for a mild reaction off the break point, that might work but I don't want to waste any more games testing balls there, for the sake of the team.
For years, I have been better off with a medium aggressive solid, only going out to 7/8 board as I near the breakpoint. Last Friday the Power Surge worked pretty well. In fact, on several light hits I ripped the rack. I just drilled it up so it may work in the long run and I just need to get used to it.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: Strapper_Squared on October 20, 2003, 10:52:37 AM
Good luck!
S^2
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Go Bengals! .500 season is a victory!
Post by: charlest on October 20, 2003, 11:19:57 AM
Good advice, I think. The more I think about it the more inclined I am towards that: BCB + 4x5. The Cranberry may be too weak, without a 4x0 and I hesitate to do that, at this point in time.
T-GOD,
On 2nd thought, I'd have to see just how polished the BCB's core is before I'd drill it 10:30; even then I'd be inclined towards a 4.5x3.5 or a 4x3.
Of course with all the flare that the BCB has maybe a 5x3 with the pin above the ring finger might also work, again dependent of how polished and how much length I'd get with the BCB. (just a random thought or two.)
That brings up another point of discussion for Lane#1 fanatics:
Isn't the space between the Cranberry and the BCB big enough to drive a truck through?
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: T-GOD on October 20, 2003, 11:30:23 AM
quote:No..!! Unless it's a Tonka truck. Both are solid resins, so how much difference can there be..?
Isn't the space between the Cranberry and the BCB big enough to drive a truck through?
Yes, the cores are different, as well as the resin, but if both had the same grit finish on the cover, there would be 5 boards maximum difference, but probably less. =:^D
Post by: charlest on October 20, 2003, 11:41:50 AM
The flare of the two are miles apart, which normally implies early and more hook. In this case, maybe a lot more. Isn't the BCB's flare atthe top of the scale 8"+ for strong handed player, while the Cranberry's is maybe 3-4" max?
And the BCB is supposed to be a stronger resin, no? That implies more hook.
I am only going by people's reported experience and the specs.
5 boards can be a considerable difference, but also doesn't the BCB handle higher quantiites of oil?
Have you drilled these two the same or similarly, and noted smaller differences?
That's not a challenge, just a real question.
Edited on 10/20/2003 11:51 AM
Post by: T-GOD on October 20, 2003, 12:57:47 PM
Now I don't have a Cranberry, but did have a Black Raspberry, drilled 5 1/2 x 3 3/8. The reaction seems very similar between the two, although I haven't used the Black Raspberry lately. I'd suspect the Cranberry to be close to the B Raz.
Flare doesn not equal total hook. Flare dictates where the hook begins and the shape of the hook. I can take balls that flare less, and hook them more than balls that flare more, depending on the conditions. =:^D
Post by: charlest on October 20, 2003, 01:45:25 PM
quote:
I have a Black Cherry drilled CG axis with a 5 1/2" pin. I am surprised at how smooth this ball is, as well as the length it gets. This ball doesn't overreact in the dry.
Now I don't have a Cranberry, but did have a Black Raspberry, drilled 5 1/2 x 3 3/8. The reaction seems very similar between the two, although I haven't used the Black Raspberry lately. I'd suspect the Cranberry to be close to the B Raz.
TG. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the comments!!
quote:
Flare doesn not equal total hook. Flare dictates where the hook begins and the shape of the hook.
Yes, I agree and flare affect different classes of balls in dfferent manners.
quote:
I can take balls that flare less, and hook them more than balls that flare more, depending on the conditions. =:^D
But, in general, I believe that a similar ball, in this case a solid polished resin, shouldn't the larger flare of the BCB make it hook earlier and more and in a more curved (banana-shaped) manner than in a hooked (hockey-stick) manner??
I'd think the hockey shape of the Cranberry would also be the result of the influence of the high RG core.
The duller raspberry had a lower RG than the CRanberry but it also had a rougher, textured surface, so it should hook earlier. Phew, even though these balls are similar, there are many factors at work.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: T-GOD on October 20, 2003, 02:35:34 PM
quote:If it's hooking more in a curved(banana-shape), that means it hooks less, off the dry.
shouldn't the larger flare of the BCB make it hook earlier and more and in a more curved (banana-shaped) manner than in a hooked (hockey-stick) manner??
I wouldn't say more flare = more hook, just differently. When the lanes are oily, a ball that flares more and/or has a banana shape arc, will usually hookk more in oil.
But, when the lanes are drier, a ball with less flare and/or a hockey stick shape, will usually hook more.
My Black Raz was highly polished, so the surface would be the same as the Cranberry. =:^D
Edited on 10/20/2003 2:45 PM
Post by: charlest on October 20, 2003, 02:51:06 PM
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."