Post by: Buzzhead on January 14, 2007, 12:51:16 PM
quote:
Posted: 1/14/2007 9:26 PM
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We try to keep our noses in here but when jackasses like Jabroni, conspirator300, and a few others keep shoving their noses in our business, should we not defend ourselves and stick up for ourselves.... If they match up with our game should we not be allowed to throw them?? no matter what the cost...
Jabroni when you start buying my equipment then I will stop throwing my beloved lane #1 stuff....and I bet my 10 pins left go thru the flippin roof....
If Lane #1 equipment instills confidence in my game and lets me shred the rack with that confidence why would I throw anything else.... I am not shoving Lane #1 balls down anyones throat trying to get them to use them, and all non believers should keep their mouths shut while trolling around trying to make trouble in the Lane #1 forum....
And before you ask I have thrown
Brunswick
Hammer
Ebonite
Storm
Roto Grip
and none of them hit or carry for me like a lane #1 does...
Now you can all comment away....
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Ten pin?????? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...
Proud SOLDIER of the FOS!!
Member of the Mafia, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just call the hitman in!
Post by: Kinalyx on January 14, 2007, 09:53:58 PM
I dont see a reason to not buy something that is more expensive if it works better. Thats like telling me not to pay an extra $100 for a better video camera, or for pretty much anything that u can get cheaper, but lesser quality.
Shawn
Post by: Steven on January 15, 2007, 12:12:00 AM
I can just speak for myself. I'm a huge fan of Lane#1, particularly the Uranium line. Simple symmetric diamond, low RG, and pure roll. Throw it bad, it rolls bad -- there isn't any artificial asymmetry to bail you out from poor mechanics. Throw it well, it's predictable arch that generates a very effective angle of entry. It's almost like throwing a plastic ball on steroids. If you get your kicks from skid/flip, this line isn't it. However, if you like controllable arch with drive, this is a great line of ball to carry.
What's really nice about this type of ball is versatility. I bowl in a traveling scratch tournament club, and many of our events are 10-games straight, changing 2-pair after each game. I got through two tournaments last year without having to change balls, due to the versatility of the Uranium. Many of my competitors were burning through 3-4 balls during the same set. I believe it was the difference in making the finals and cashing in those tournaments. In league, I went through many years of a consistent 220 average, but when using the Uranium exclusively last year, jumped up to 230. I'm the same old guy, same flaws, but just more consistent.
I have many of the other Lane#1 balls. Some I like almost as much (SCB, Carbide Plus, Cranberry), and others are OK but nothing special (Dirty Bombs, Golden Nugget). For me, I've found the less modifications to the diamond, the more "Lane#1" personality the ball retains. The models with flip blocks and parts of the diamond chopped off create reactions you can find in other companies. But again, that's just me -- others find value in those Lane#1 lines.
Again, to each his own. From a credibility standpoint, it's annoying to read useless input from Lane#1 trolls who have never given the product a real chance pronounce it as over hyped and over priced junk. My wanting the trolls to disappear won't make it happen, but it's a nice thought.
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"
Post by: Grayson on January 15, 2007, 09:02:06 AM
But the difference is only 32$ if you buy them there... if I buy them in the US and pay the cargo fee the Lane#1 balls are even cheaper than any other brand here... so why not go for the "best"?
I have tried brunswick/Ebonite/Track and AMF balls (each brand one ball except Track I had 2 from Track... I don't bowl so long... 2 years by now) When I bought my first Lane#1 ball (a XXXL) the pincarry was marvelous... with Plastic! So I decided to get me a Tsunami as I liked the smooth reaction I saw in the video.
I can't say wether the balls are better or worse... The thing I know is:
A bad shot won't work. To expect a strike from a bad pocket is poor... really poor... a pocket or a good pocket... ok... but to expect help with a bad pocket is just poor...then I wouldn't dare to expect a strike even from the "best" bowling ball in the world.
If you don't want to spend the money... why argue about the price?
A friend of mine said: "There is no BAD bowling ball... there are just bowling balls that don't fit. Either they don't fit the style, the lane condition or the layout os crap... but the ball itself normally is fine. You just have to know what to expect from it and how to drill it."
And I agree.
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Balls:
Lane#1 XXXL Tsunami and Carbide+
Saw 'Em Down!
Have fun and bowl well!
and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)
Post by: Steven on January 15, 2007, 10:29:59 AM
quote:
There's nothing magical or mystical about the diamond core.
If there is anything magical or mystical, it's the simplicity. It's a joy rolling a ball where you make it work rather than convoluted asymmetric designs that give you artificial hook on THS patterns. It depends on what you value.
quote:
It won't make you a better bowler or give you more pins or carry better (as lane 1 claims).
I'm not going to get into Lane#1 claims, but a ball like a Uranium can make you a better bowler if you pay attention to the feedback the ball gives you.
quote:
I've had a U pearl and a U solid. They both rolled like crap for me even after two drills and numerous surface changes.
Funny you should say this. My exact same reaction when I got my U pearl. But instead of labeling it 'crap', I asked myself why I was having a hard time getting a ball with a simple symmetric core, versatile cover, and a neutral drill to react well. That ball forced me to examine some of my release mechanics and experiment with some changes. Maybe you should have considered the same thing.
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What slays me is people like you that claim mystical powers of carry and increase in averages that justify the cost. Thats just crap. It's not anything the ball is doing, it's you. If you feel confident in a ball and the way it reacts in your hands, then you are going to score better no matter what that ball is.
I've never gone overboard with claims of mystical powers. I've simply tried to explain what some Lane#1's have done for me. I'd be happy to give you my real name for USBC validation, and even send you league sheets for further 'proof'. I have nothing to hide. But it wouldn't make any difference because it would always come down to some mental revelation from having a Lane#1 label in my hand. That's the final defense you have for anyone who has positive thoughts about the product.
And Jabroni, who I can always depend to be in the mix:
quote:
Inverted...don't bother...it's useless. Steven will never see the flaw in his arguments. He debates himself in his statements by contradiction and doesn't see it.
More useless generalities without substance. You claim flaws and contradictions, but don't have the courtesy to present what the heck you're talking about. I'll at least give you credit for being consistently vague when you don't have anything constructive to say.
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"
Post by: Brickguy221 on January 15, 2007, 11:05:13 AM
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Brick
Post by: Kinalyx on January 15, 2007, 11:11:48 AM
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Sorry buddy, i was all for lane 1 being for people it matched up with, saying that the balls r quality & that it just doesnt fit my game.
You just basically said that lane 1 will tell u if u suck or not(only because u like them). I gave my tsunami 1 hell of a chance last night. I threw 3 games with it, moving everywhere, different hand positions, after practice i took a grey SB pad to it to see if it was the polish getting me. NOTHING worked, at all....not even close. I stuck with the ball all night, it was inconsistant, rolled a bit funny in general, & overall didnt even carry very well when i did hit the pocket.
I then looked over at a guy with a horrid release, & extremely flawed mechanics hooking the crap out of a cobalt bomb. Meanwhile i have above average revs & couldnt evne play up 10 with the tsunami.
Basically u r telling me that the tsunami is perfect, & the reason i dont like it is because im not good enough to throw it?
Im sorry, if i have to change my entire release to make a ball company work for me.....ill save my cash & buy something else.
Shawn
Post by: GTX on January 15, 2007, 11:22:33 AM
oh wait .. I am gonna stop using lane#1 now .. hahahaha .. NOT
ur "stories" are getting old ... you need to get some new ones
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Member of F.O.S.
Post by: Steven on January 15, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
quote:
You just basically said that lane 1 will tell u if u suck or not(only because u like them).
Kinalyx: Before getting into the meat of what you wrote, I said nothing about the Tsunami. I don't own one, and have never made any comments whatsoever about that ball. The Tsunami is one of Lane#1's attempts over the past 2 years to expand their market by developing modifications to the base diamond core. Since you didn't say a word about how your Tsunami is set up, I can't even guess at why you're having difficulties. Maybe it's the ball, or maybe it's you.
Regardless, my comments about ball feedback were specific to the Uranium and the base diamond core -- you'll see that if you read what I wrote. Using the work 'suck' to describe not matching to a Uranium might be extreme, but I do believe this is an excellent bowling IQ ball. Forget that the Uranium is Lane#1 for a minute. If you can't get any low-RG symmetric with a decent cover and neutral drill to roll well, you do in fact have bowling issues. You don't have to be able to shoot lights out with it, or even have it be a choice out of your bag. The test is simply to be able to throw it well. If you can't, the challenge is to have enough humility to understand why. If you don't care and label it 'crap', my opinion is you don't have much potential as a bowler. If you feel different, that's fine.
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"
Post by: Steven on January 15, 2007, 02:07:46 PM
quote:
Because I know my game enough to realize when a ball isn't matching up with me for whatever reason. Is it the cover, the core or the cover/core match up? Who knows? Do I change my game because I'm not getting a good read or reaction off a certain ball. Answer? No.
DeadFlush: I gave a very simple example of a litmus test to evaluate release mechanics; any low-RG symmetric with a decent cover and neutral drill -- even if it's not your preference, can you throw it well? You write this off in that if you can't, it's for some unexplainable (and fuzzy) 'matchup' reason. I'm sorry, that's a weak answer. You should know, and if you don't, you should be interested in knowing if it's a limiting factor in your game.
The whole purpose of working with this type of ball is that it gives you little help. Low-RG means expending energy early so a weak release is going to suffer. Symmetric with a neutral drill means the core isn't going to give you automatic help. Decent cover means it's not too weak or too strong to distort roll evaluation.
quote:
If I have problems or something wrong with my mechanics, a ball reaction is the last place I'd be looking for feedback.
Again, you're missing the boat if it's the right ball you're using for release mechanics evaluation.
quote:
If you really want to get feedback on a proper release or mechanics, throw a ball with a pancake core and take the core dynamics out of your game altogether. That'll give you some excellent feedback on your game.
Agreed, although not entirely complete. Because most balls with pancake cores are weak and move very little, it's tough to get a read on effectiveness, even if the roll looks OK. You need a ball along lines that I described to get a more complete picture.
BTW, are you one person using two ID's - Inverted 1 and DeadFlush?
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"
Post by: triggerman on January 15, 2007, 02:38:33 PM
two names i cannot get away from lol--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Made member of the Lane #1 Mafia
Post by: Sawuser on January 15, 2007, 02:41:33 PM
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Righty
Think about it!
It is impossible to govern rightly without God and the Bible. - George Washington
Post by: Brickguy221 on January 15, 2007, 03:54:41 PM
quote:
My belief is that bowlers with low revs and moderate speeds really take advantage of the core design by them. Nothing wrong with that. You're taking advantage of a good match.
Thanks DeadFlush. (Are you Inverted 1 also?)I do match up to that ball extremely well. I know that Inverted 1 recently told me that in a league he bowls in that there are a couple or so Lane 1's and those bowlers balls get thru the heads extremely well and still carry while other bowlers aren't or something like that, don't recall exact words. He said these Lane 1 balls seem to match up well with bowlers like them and myself with slower speeds and lower revs, again don't recall exact words.
I have ordered another Lane 1 for a wood house I struggle in and hoping it will do for me there what the EU did for me in the synthetic house.
The rest of my post here is to all of the people debating....
To me the key is match up even if the price is $20 more than other premium balls, so for a great match up, the $20 extra is meaningless to me and instead meaningful.
People simply have to go by trial and error until they find what ball(s) works best for them and which ones don't and not let price get in the way of judgement. All balls in every company don't necessary work for all bowlers regardless of drillings. The bowler has to seek out what works best for him (her).
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Brick
Post by: Steven on January 15, 2007, 04:35:00 PM
quote:
Nothing fancy on the drill. A simple label drill with the pin 3 3/8 away from my pap. All of them preformed very well for me other than the U pearl.
Pin 3-3/8 away from your pap puts the pin in a strong leverage position that maximizes flare potential. Depending on placement of the MB, you had either a label leverage, stacked leverage, or a hybrid pattern drill between the two. I haven't set up any of my saws with a leveraged pin, so I wouldn't know what to expect. On the surface, leveraged pins with low-RG cores sound condition specific at best. I have set up pins at 3-3/8 away from my pap on non-saw stuff to maximize ball movement, and it's always been hit-or-miss (actually, more miss).
Without having more information and being able to watch you, I don't know why your U Pearl didn't work for you. Maybe it's the leveraged drill relative to the diamond core, or maybe it's your style.
quote:
Just exactly what did your U Pearl teach you?
Before experimenting with Lane#1, I was using asymmetric equipment from Storm/Ebonite with the MB in the strong position. I got lazy and began depending on the free hook these cores were creating for me. It worked well in predictable league patterns where I could dump the ball and get it to come back without much effort, but I suffered in tournaments where I didn't know what to expect.
My second Lane#1 was a U Pearl with a short 1.5" pin, label leverage (1:30) in the center of the grip (no x-hole). This ball didn't do anything automatic for me. In working with it, I became more conscious of staying behind the ball and coming around more which had the positive effect of lowering my track. Also, because the ball was not creating free hook, I became more aware of the effects of subtle hand position changes. I was getting feedback that my other equipment was masking. The bottom line is that I became more versatile. My league average went up 10+ pins, and I started cashing in tournaments where I had previously been a donator.
Anyway, to each his own.
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"
Post by: Brickguy221 on January 15, 2007, 05:49:47 PM
quote:
Yup. Deadflush is my secret identity at work...
LOL...Now I am going to know whether you are working or loafing
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Brick
Edited on 1/15/2007 6:49 PM
Post by: Re-Evolution on January 15, 2007, 05:57:11 PM
Where in the world did you ever get the idea that an asymmetrical ball will give you artificially enhanced hooking action and will cover up a bad release or differences in release, speed, etc.
That is one of the most false statements I have ever seen.
Strong asymmetrical balls are more sensitive to release, speed, drilling, etc.
You have to roll the ball more consistent with asymmetrical balls to have consistency, not the other way around. This is one of the reasons a qualified pro shop operator or coach will try and steer beginning/inconsistent bowlers away from them.
You can also drill symmetrical balls to have increased backend or a smooth forgiving shape, just not to as high a degree.
If Lane 1 works for you by all means stick with them.
But don't bad mouth or make false statements about asymmetrical equipment, cause if Lane 1 made them you probably wouldn't have mentioned them.
You are like many people you think that anyone that uses asymmetrical equipment is looking for the hockey stick reaction. In many cases this is not true. At times people will lay an asymmetrical ball out for a controlled reaction I am one of them.
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Re-Evolution
Evolve to a smarter game.
www.Bowling-Info.com (http://"www.Bowling-Info.com/index.php")
BR.com's unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: pjr300 on January 15, 2007, 07:03:36 PM
There's a lot of whining and beyattch-slapping in this thread. Relax guys.
It's all about match-up... just ask Patrick Allen. Bowler of the year and on top of the world a year ago; switches to Track and he can't catch a bone. After 6 months he goed back to Ebonite and voila he wins in his first event.
I purchased a Tsunami here on the board.... didn't do a thing for me. I sold it to a teammate and it is magic in his hands! He loves it.... and another of my teammates has thrown it and it matches up perfect for him too.
My LIMITED experience with the stuff matches exactly what my favorite pro shop tells me... that high rev and lower speed guys love it because the diamond provides a very even reaction. I guess a lot of companies have a charactoristic to their equipment (Storm (skid-snap) vs Big B (early roll)).
Every company tosses out claims of improved performance with their new gear...from AMF to X-caliber. Nobody has every sold a product with claims of "it's almost as good as what you already own." Lane #1 isn't the only one who makes claims. And if you think the Lane #1 guys act like groupies, you should check out the Brunswick forum. Talk about drinking the Kool-aid.
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Post by: Xfest on January 15, 2007, 07:23:47 PM
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- Formerly known as lane1what 
Ebonite Angular One Lane #1 Solid Cobalt Bomb Storm Paradigm 
Hammer Black Widow Storm Jolt Pearl 
Storm SpitFirePost by: pjr300 on January 15, 2007, 07:33:05 PM
Sounds like a perfect match!
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pjr300
live from the Bowling Capital of the World
Post by: triggerman on January 15, 2007, 08:21:14 PM
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Made member of the Lane #1 Mafia
Post by: Steven on January 16, 2007, 09:12:46 AM
quote:
Steven,
Where in the world did you ever get the idea that an asymmetrical ball will give you artificially enhanced hooking action and will cover up a bad release or differences in release, speed, etc.
An asymmetric with a strong MB drilled in the strong position can provide a significant amount of free hook. If you know how to use that to your advantage on a wet/dry THS, you can generate 'artificially enhanced hooking action' without a lot of hand. That's all I communicated in my prior post. This is fact and shouldn't be upsetting to you. So on certain conditions, this type of setup can minimize the penalty a bowler pays for a less than optimal release. It's the phenomena that allows some true 180-200 average bowlers to bump up to 215-220 on conditions they know how to exploit.
quote:
That is one of the most false statements I have ever seen.
Hopefully, the concept doesn't seem so false to you anymore.
quote:
Strong asymmetrical balls are more sensitive to release, speed, drilling, etc. You have to roll the ball more consistent with asymmetrical balls to have consistency, not the other way around.
True. And according to this, with strong asymmetric setups, you can release the ball consistently on the weak side and generate more hook than otherwise possible on certain conditions.
quote:
You can also drill symmetrical balls to have increased backend or a smooth forgiving shape, just not to as high a degree.
Precisely, "just not to as high a degree". It's the higher degree the strong asymmetric allows that empowers the skilled THS bowler who is consistent but doesn't have a lot of hand to generate more hook than otherwise possible.
quote:
But don't bad mouth or make false statements about asymmetrical equipment, cause if Lane 1 made them you probably wouldn't have mentioned them.
Hopefully, by this point you understand I didn't make any false statements. The comment about Lane#1 wasn't necessary. It has nothing to do with an asym discussion.
quote:
You are like many people you think that anyone that uses asymmetrical equipment is looking for the hockey stick reaction. In many cases this is not true. At times people will lay an asymmetrical ball out for a controlled reaction I am one of them.
I understand that some bowlers sometimes lay out asymmetric for a controlled reaction -- I'm one of them. But in many cases a bowler lay them out for max hook. Just understand that it goes both ways.
As you get more experience and use different types of equipment in different environments, these concepts will make more sense to you. Good luck on that journey.
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"Sometimes, the best move is the one we don't make"