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Author Topic: XL Layout  (Read 2443 times)

fozzie1969

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XL Layout
« on: November 02, 2003, 06:48:11 AM »
I did the oil ring layout to find my PAP on my used XL. It is 5 3/4" to the pin and 3 1/2" to the CG. Would this layout be a 5 3/4 x 3 1/2 OR the other way 3 1/2 x 5 3/4? I am just learning how a ball gets laid out to the reaction you get. This ball hooks alot with what I call a Med condition. If I stand on 28 and throw out to 12 ( I'm a lefty) the ball will come back hard but hits like slush in the pocket, but if it goes brooklyn it has a decent hit and the pins scatter. I have moved around trying to find a place where this ball will work and not over hook and one place this ball is working ok is me standing on 40 throwing out to 18. This shot the ball will hit harder than any other shot I have tried. I have not played with the surface yet; with the way this ball is hitting I feel this layout is wrong for me. Oh the CG is out and up from the center of my span. Ok the questions.

1. What would this layout be called?
2. Is where I'm standing and throwing match up to the layout described?
3. Any suggestions on a weaker layout or cover modifications or both?
4. Anybody have a drill sheet for the XL? (I have tried to download from Lane1 but my computer will not match up with the download files)

Sorry for the long post but this is my first saw and so far it is not going very well. (Avg. down 12 and 15 pins in 2 leagues in 3 weeks with SAW!)

Thanks for any advice I may receive!

Kent

EDIT: The pin is above 1" and in the middle of my fingers.

Edited on 11/2/2003 11:00 PM
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Strider

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2003, 01:22:55 AM »
The PAP is measured from the center of your grip.  Go to http://www.ebonite.com/techcenter/positiveaxispt.php to make sure you've done it right.  Your PAP will tell us (in general) how you throw the ball.  Once you have the spot for sure, your drilling will be obvious.  In a 5 3/4 x 3 1/2 drilling, the pin is 5 3/4" from the PAP and the CG is 3 1/2" from the PAP.

If this is your drilling, it is generically called a CG out.  If the CG is kicked towards the PAP (right for a right hander), it will tend to roll earlier and smoother than a ball that has the CG stacked below or kicked left.  Other than your style, the lanes, and the ball's surface, the pin's placement will determine how much the ball hooks.

A 5.75 x 3.5 is not a very strong drilling.  Putting the pin and CG at 3 3/8" from the PAP will usually maximize the flare and hook,
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fozzie1969

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2003, 05:47:46 PM »
Strider, thanks for the reply. I located the PAP using the article from the Ebonite's web site. Just measured the PAP dot to the center of my grip and it is 5 1/4".  Since this is a weak layout, is there a weaker layout? Or do I need to change the cover(recommendations any one)?  All I know is that on my house condition this is too much ball.  It will get dryer when the heat gets turned on. If I am getting this right the layout is a 5 3/4" x 3 1/2"(correct?)
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Strider

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2003, 07:12:37 PM »
I should have worded my reply better.  To get your PAP, measure straight over from your grip center until your PAP mark is right above or below.  Then measure that distance as well.  The average PAP is something like 5" over, 0.5" up.  Redrilling is kind of drastic, and expensive to change.  Move your feet and target right (since you're a lefty) to find more oil.  If that doesn't work, sand the ball to a finer grit and shine it up with your favorite polish.  If it still overhooks, add a slipping agent like Neo-Tac's Control-It.
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fozzie1969

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2003, 08:00:48 PM »
Strider, Thanks again. I remeasured my PAP and I was off a little it is 5 3/8" x 0".  The middle of my grip and the PAP mark lined up on the tape.  Is this good or bad? What would be finer than Lane1's "Highly Polished" and is sanding required?  I thank you very much for the schooling.
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Strider

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2003, 08:28:48 PM »
Having your PAP level with your grip center isn't good or bad.  Your track is probably parallel with and close to your fingers and thumb.  Since my PAP is up 5/8", my track is closer to my thumb than it is to my fingers.  I would expect you to do on wet lanes, and struggle more on dry.

Lane #1 doesn't give a lot of info about their coverstocks or their preparation.  I'd guess that it's a 600-800 grit sand with some polish.  I'd get a good proshop (or someone with a spinner who knows how to use it) and sand all 6 sides (top, bottom, front, back, left, right) to 1000-1200 grit and apply some polish.  Storm makes polishes that have a grit value listed.  I'd try for 1500-2000 grit.

This site gives some additional resurfacing tips.  http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_s_Corner/Resurfacing_Tips/resurfacing.html
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fozzie1969

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2003, 08:41:53 PM »
Yes my track runs about 1" off both my fingers and thumb.
Thanks for the link on resurfacing.

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T-GOD

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2003, 09:54:39 AM »
With roughly a 5 3/4" pin to PAP, you will need a lot of hand to get this ball to work well on normal conditions. You'd be better off going with a 4 1/4 x 3. This will make the ball stronger and more manageable on normal conditions.

But, you say it does work well deep inside, so maybe you should leave it for that condition, as the drilling/layout you have now fits a drier condition. =:^D
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fozzie1969

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2003, 05:44:54 PM »
T-God, I do not have a problem getting XL to work back to the pocket, even with the weak layout this ball will fly past the head pin a lot. When it does find the pocket the hit is weak, I do not know if this ball is burning up so I'm going to try some polish.  I am going to try to play deeper to see if there is more oil for this ball.  The lanes are on the lighter side of med.  I do not know my rev rate but a lot of people say it is high and I get roughly 10-13 track rings on the ball when I throw it.

On this 4 1/4 x 3 layout I have three questions.
1. Will this smooth out the backend? (not so flipy)
2. Will the breakpoint start earler? (I'm assuming it will)
3. Will this make the ball hit harder? (like the other Saws)

Thanks
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Saw Mill

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2003, 06:03:47 PM »
Fozzie,

I will tell you that if you sand your XL to 1500 or 2000 grit (with scotch brite pads), it will tame you ball down alot.  If you want a tamer layout, instead of a surface change, I have tried a 5 1/2 x 4 1/2, with the pin 1/2" above the bridge, and the CG kicked slightly towards your PAP, then all you may need is polish.  My Silver Diamond is laid out like this.

Dave
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T-GOD

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2003, 06:20:11 PM »
foz,

1. Yes, plus lowering the pin will help.
2. Yes
3. Probably
=:^D
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fozzie1969

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2003, 07:08:41 PM »
Hey SAW MILL, On the scotch brite pads the 1500-2000 grit is that the white or gray one.  I really do not want to redrill, but I will if it will make this ball better.  

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.  The schooling is great.
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Saw Mill

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2003, 07:39:13 PM »
I believe the gray is finer grit than the white, so either one will do.  make sure that whoever is doing it, knows what they are doing, and the polish I would use would be Storm's Diamond Gloss, and just enough to get the box shine back.  Everytime I have fine-sanded and then polished, the ball was much tamer.  You could even try just highly polishing before sanding and polish, unless it is realllllly that dry where you are at.

Dave
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fozzie1969

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Re: XL Layout
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2003, 09:22:55 PM »
For anyone who is interested in this thread, I tried to move deeper tonight to find more oil.  I did not find anymore oil   I was standing on 47 up against the ball return on the left lane throwing out over the 20 board and standing on 50 throwing over 22 on the right lane.  This shot worked for about 3 frames then I lost the oil and the ball went sailing!

I'm now going to polish this ball to see if I can get some more length.
I'll fill in when have some results.

On a side note I did shoot the last game with the XXXL that I have(love this ball).  Had XXX9/XX9/ for the first seven then pushed the oil down and ball would not finish. Shot 195 open 10th(my fault).

Later
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