Author Topic: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this. (Read 1453 times)

John D Davis · « **on:** March 21, 2009, 10:35:07 PM »

Hey guys, I have a question here: "About a year or so ago, I really got my feet wet with some LM equipment." I had over 20 LM balls at one time... I enjoyed just about every one of them but a couple like the Sting, Counter Strike, and perhaps a Rebellion.

Do you guys think LM balls will disappeare in little more time? Would it be a waste of money to try and buy up a few more of these balls? They have such a different look that no other manufactory has as far as roll+length. I will say that the high RG's make it difficult sometimes on the longer stuff, for me anyways.

For the most part though I enjoyed the reaction/longeveity of these pieces I had. Of course like anyone else, dammm I hated to change the surface on one of those diamond particle balls!!!!! I had a WCP that I finally give up on trying to get the lines out.

The reason I question so many things in this is because even online shops are not selling these balls anymore... Some of the bigger ones like www.bowlingballmall.com that use to be big into LM balls are not stocking at all. Is this a sign of the Company going under or are these balls still huge in some areas and dont plan to go anywhere? See I am in an area that never sees LM balls(except for Graaille) lol So I just dont know what to expect.

Is there also anywhere that I can buy older LM balls at? Some of my favorite balls where the Big Bang, and WCP's... I dont seem to see any of those anywhere now and days. Where can I get that dang buzz attack to dag gonnit. I am tired of reading all this good stuff but never seeing one. I sure would appriciate all the replies to this.

I think sometimes its a bad move to have all LM's in the bag because they have such a unique look but I have a feeling that I need a few in the bag along with some other stuff to compliment it. Thanks for reading, John

leftyinsnellville · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2009, 07:10:47 AM »

Running a business has a lot more to do with just selling a high volume of product. I view LM like I view Porsche...they produce a high quality product at a premium price. I may pay more, but the performance and durability justify the higher cost.

As long as they manage expenses and keep the volume produced in line with actual sales, they'll do fine. Catering to the high end consumer is a very viable business strategy and can keep the people at LM employed for a very, very long time.

Graaille · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2009, 02:17:30 PM »

I'll say this. I didn't get the number of LM balls that I did w/out keeping eyes out both here and ebay (and being willing to make first drill balls into 2nd drill balls). If you want NIB, you gotta be in it for the long haul, and just keep a running post in here like BigBandito does.

Do I think the company's going under? I doubt it seriously -- main reason is that at least in this area people are bowling more because it's cheaper than other forms of entertainment that were more affordable when the economy was better.

They do still make all their stuff by hand, which means that they either don't or can't put out the volume that other brands do. To make more affordable balls, they already decided to put filler in their mid-line balls (but still maintaining their LM quality). But **I would suppose, not being an authority or having inside knowledge of any type,** that the main reason that they're not being handled as much by online distributors is the volume issue. If a proshop/retailer/e-tailer gets an order for a ball - they expect to be able to fill that order immediately or with a very small backorder time. With LM making balls for Nationals, I just don't think that they would be able to commit to the national volume that they had in times past.

And by the way, if you can't get those lines out of the WCP, let me know and I'll take it off your hands for you. Wouldn't want you to look at that ball and think "man, I couldn't do it."

John D Davis · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2009, 05:04:42 PM »

I just wonder how long LM will be making some of those awsome pieces like the Black Pearl/Terminator for? Will they be extinct in another year and have made one more new release?

There slow productions of new releases pose concern to me. They have made some wonderful looking balls but face it... The Dynamic Power will never sell because of the way it looks. Sometimes it dont matter what performance it has, it has to look good to the public eye.

zone · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2009, 10:04:44 AM »

bowlingballmall.com still carries alot of their stuff.
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LANE MASTERS / LEGENDS convert and never looking back!

j1kjvan · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:11:50 AM »

John: I don't think that Lane masters will be going away soon. If you are going to Nationals you can pick up balls from Kent Wagner at the LM booth. If you are not going, log onto wagnerbowling.com and they will be more than happy to sell and send you any equipment they have. If you know your specs, they will drill it for you before they send it.

The Black Pearl line is probably the best sellers that they have. Previously they would make most of their equipment for 2 years before they discontinued the balls. If I had a product that was my number 1 seller, I certainly would try to capitalize on its popularity before I decided to replace it. It may not be a bad idea to load up on the balls you like if you get a hint that they will be discontinued.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:43:09 AM »

quote:
There slow productions of new releases pose concern to me. They have made some wonderful looking balls but face it... The Dynamic Power will never sell because of the way it looks. Sometimes it dont matter what performance it has, it has to look good to the public eye.

I do not think that a slow introduction rate is a true problem. If you look at Visionary, they introduce a ball (not balls) now and then, they have a clear assortment of some basic pieces and some special purpose balls that are unique and complement the basic arsenal. It works well.

IMHO, I do not see LM disappear, but they are losing the edge they had: non-filler balls, particle technology, high quality balls and "packages" with maintenance equipment instead of just a ball in a box. Design is also an issue - I cannot see how a ball like the Counter Strike "appeal" to anyone?
What has LM become? Do they still have an edge in the bowlers' eyes? I think they lost it with the introduction (and multiple delays) of the filler balls. They might be good equipment, but they make LM blend with the masses.

Additionally, their limit to symmetrical cores might also be an issue, esp. in the current high end lines where you get from other manufacturers not only stat of the art coverstocks, but also cores with more punch. If it is LM's philosophy, that's O.K. for them, but I am sure that this also makes potential clients stay away from their stuff, because you get "more" ball for comparable money elsewhere.

I wonder if they did market research in the past 2 or 3 years?

That said, I think their older equipment might become collectors' items. I am pretty happy that I got a NIB NSÂ² in a sale. Good ball, but I doubt that I'd try a filler ball of LM.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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Graaille · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:03:15 PM »

quote:

IMHO, I do not see LM disappear, but they are losing the edge they had: non-filler balls, particle technology, high quality balls and "packages" with maintenance equipment instead of just a ball in a box.

Well, the "packages" are supposedly still there on their top-line balls (Black Pearls and World Classes)

quote:
Design is also an issue - I cannot see how a ball like the Counter Strike "appeal" to anyone?

I'm going to ask, are you talking about the fact that it has a filler, or the color scheme?

quote:

What has LM become? Do they still have an edge in the bowlers' eyes? I think they lost it with the introduction (and multiple delays) of the filler balls. They might be good equipment, but they make LM blend with the masses.

The delays really do hurt, but it's better (IMHO) than a rushed ball that's not quite ready.

quote:

Additionally, their limit to symmetrical cores might also be an issue, esp. in the current high end lines where you get from other manufacturers not only stat of the art coverstocks, but also cores with more punch. If it is LM's philosophy, that's O.K. for them, but I am sure that this also makes potential clients stay away from their stuff, because you get "more" ball for comparable money elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure that the only way LM would be able to do an asymmetrical cored ball would to have it be a 'filler' ball, it most likely would be the only way there could be enough of a potential core to coverstock ratio to give the asymmetry meaning. However, unless I'm reading incorrectly, it seems you're not entirely approving of their 'filler'-type balls.

quote:
I wonder if they did market research in the past 2 or 3 years?

That said, I think their older equipment might become collectors' items. I am pretty happy that I got a NIB NSÂ² in a sale. Good ball, but I doubt that I'd try a filler ball of LM.

I'm thinking that their older equipment are collectors items, because I'm trying to collect 2 of each of them. Having said that, I have (with the exception of the Dynamic Power) at least one of each of their 'filler' balls, and I've got no problems putting them side by side to a World Class, Black Pearl, Absolute Power, Yeah Baby, or the like. If memory serves, which it may not I'll be the first to admit, the move to having a 'filler' line was to try to capture a mid-point price market share -- because paying $150 online US for a LM ball vs. $120 for a RG/Storm/Ebo/etc meant a big difference in sales for the average ball buyer. Of course, now that this year almost all of the companies have a line of balls that are at the $150 mark makes LM fall in line price-wise.

So now the only difference between LM and most of the rest of the market is 1. quality control (see the Brunswick and Ebonite forums for those who wave that flag with tremendous vigor) 2. Availability (being a smaller outfit, they just can't/don't put out 1000 balls a day) and 3. PBA registration (see the comments made by LM Advertising in the LM forum, and/or the more detailed response from Visionary in the Visionary forum).

The reason you don't have Availability is because of Quality Control, and a large reason (again, in my opinion) they don't do PBA registration is due to financial concerns that PBA sanctioning necessarily entail. To offset those financial concerns -- they'd have to be able to put out a signifigantly increased volume of balls - which would then potentially wear on Quality Control per ball - and then in a couple of years we'd be on here grumbling about why LM sold out and started making lesser quality balls.

Debate welcome if there are other opinions.

Author Topic: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this. (Read 1453 times)

John D Davis

Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.

leftyinsnellville

Re: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.

Graaille

Re: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.

John D Davis

Re: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.

zone

Re: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.

j1kjvan

Re: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.

dizzyfugu

Re: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.

Graaille

Re: Ok LM guys take some time here and read this.