Post by: justink on July 13, 2006, 02:29:59 AM
Thank you.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Edited on 7/13/2006 10:45 AM
Post by: robospare on July 13, 2006, 02:54:08 PM
Post by: charlest on July 13, 2006, 03:18:52 PM
Also, exactly what "down and in" means, will vary slightly to a lot, depending on the bowler.
If you tell us what ball you are using now, how it's drilled, what the surface is like (how it has changed or how you have changed it with use), and any other factors, I or others could possibly recommend one or more Legends balls that you may be able to use.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: justink on July 13, 2006, 03:33:40 PM
More of a stroker and usually play any were from 7-12 and have allot of luck with the AP2 until it starts over reacting to carrydown. Then the NS2 comes out and does quite well in those instances. Love them both.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Post by: charlest on July 13, 2006, 03:38:20 PM
quote:
I have the NS2(grey pad) and AP2(burg pad). My main house is all synthetic and is typically pretty slick for league. The NS2 is drilled for length with the pin over the ring finger and cg kicked out and inch or so. It has a weight hole 31/32" 1" deep on the PAP. The AP2 is drilled 5 x 3 with the pin directly under the ring finger and a 3/4" weight hole 1" below the PAP. The AP2 I bought used, so it was left the way I got it. My PAP is 5" by 0" Don't know my axis, just know that I have more than enough speed with medium low revs. I try to slow down and they react better, of course.
More of a stroker and usually play any were from 7-12 and have allot of luck with the AP2 until it starts over reacting to carrydown. Then the NS2 comes out and does quite well in those instances. Love them both.
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So, these balls as a combination allow you to play "down and in" as you see it.
When the AP2 sees too much carrydown, later in your shift, you switch to the NS2 and that takes care of the carrydown and you remain able to play down and in - is that correct?
Hmmm?? What happens if you start with the NS2?
AND
how long have you been using these balls?
and
did you buy them new?
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 7/13/2006 3:38 PM
Post by: justink on July 13, 2006, 03:46:53 PM
Now you have me confused and I probably sound like a babling fool. Way to go.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Post by: justink on July 13, 2006, 03:48:54 PM
Ap2 - used. Bought in May from Laybzz
Typically it seems to be too wet for the NS2 at the beginning of the set.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Post by: mini kahuna on July 13, 2006, 03:59:31 PM
Post by: justink on July 13, 2006, 04:02:17 PM
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Post by: charlest on July 13, 2006, 04:19:06 PM
quote:
NS2 - new. Bought in February
Ap2 - used. Bought in May from Laybzz
Typically it seems to be too wet for the NS2 at the beginning of the set.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
This is a fairly decent one-two combination, in these circumstances, for you. However, you haven't mentioned moving deeper with the AP2, before going to the NS2. That 5" pin reduces the potential flare of the AP but may be a factor in enabling you to use in that down and in fashion you like.
The NS2 is a bit of a special ball. It's a good control ball, but has a heavy load of particles making it almost immune to carrydown. Well, let's be real and call it less susceptible to carrydown.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on July 13, 2006, 04:26:47 PM
quote:
If you are game take your AP2 to your driller and have him bump up the weight hole a couple of sizes,it will make a big difference in your reaction,sooner and more hook.a 1 1/8" hole would make that thing a monster.
Normally I'd say go for it, but since the hole is "only' 1" below his PAP, holes that makes a serious difference at 2 1/2" or more below that PAP. I don;t think a larger hole will makes that big a difference. But it won;t hurt either.
What I think may make a bigger difference given that he has used the ball and bought it used, is a rejuvenation treatment. Even Legends balls absorb oil and lose reaction over time. WHat I'd suggest is to see if any local pro shops have the Rejuvenator oven. SANd th eball to about 220 grit with Track's CLean and Dull (or CLean and Tacky, if that is available). The oven "roasts" balls at or below 150 degree fahrenheit. If that is not available, then a hot water from the tap treatment in a bucket with some household/kitchen sink degreaser. Keep the hole at the top, keep the water level just below the holes, let it soak until the water gets tepid. The hot water brings the oil to the surface; the degreaser breaks up the oil prevent the ball from re-absorbing the oil OR so the theory goes. Wipe the ball off with a good bowling ball cleaner like Legends own, then sand it back to your favorite grit.
I'd do that to the NS2 also. ONLY because you have been using them in so much oil.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: justink on July 13, 2006, 04:30:44 PM
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Post by: charlest on July 13, 2006, 04:39:52 PM
quote:
Yeah the NS2 is a few boards weaker than the AP2 on the backend. But seems to be less effected by differences in the line such as other bowlers throwing through my line, as well as carry down. Therefor, later in the series it seems to be a good ball to go to. The NS2 also arcs more down the lane than my AP2, so maybe it's just seeing a different line, also due to it's arcing motion it hooks earlier and would not see the carrydown as much as the AP2 which tends to go straighter and then hook in to the pocket. Uh......
Now you have me confused and I probably sound like a babling fool. Way to go.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Not at all. you're actually thinking about what you're doing and how the balls are reacting and how you're playing them. I wish 99% of us would think in PRECISELY those terms.
I'm looking at the Legends/LM ball chart and I;'m thinking that redrilling either one of these balls COULD ... POTENTIALLY get you one ball to stick with, just by moving deeper as the shot dries up.
Any chance that you're bowling on a Guardian overlay? It causes carrydown like no body's business. Of course, on any heavy oil, like what you're on, can cause lots of carrydown.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: justink on July 14, 2006, 08:42:37 AM
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Edited on 7/14/2006 8:38 AM
Post by: justink on July 14, 2006, 10:34:11 AM
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Post by: charlest on July 14, 2006, 03:35:58 PM
quote:
Quick question about the expanding of the weight hole. You stated that a lower hole would make a greater difference. Would it be worthwhile to fill the current hole and then drill the bigger hole lower but over that hole? So that it actually removes the filler. In essence it would only move the center of the hole about a half an inch, but lower nonetheless.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Personally,in my opinion, I'd fill them all and redrill the AP2 with the pin IN the ring finger hole. My PAP is 5"x0" also. This is a strong, medium length drill. If you stack the CG immediately below the pin/ring finger or even kick it out a bit, say creating a 4"x3" drill, that should be a decently strong reacting ball to handle carrydown without resorting to the NS2. (That said, it should also cause you to need to move your feet 1-2 boards deeper, because it is a stronger drill.) Your "need" currently for the NS2 is not just for carrydown, but more for the drier heads; it has more natural length than the AP2, ESPECIALLY with the NS2 drilled with a 5" pin!
The change you're talking about to the weight hole will not normally make a significant difference. It may not make any difference. Remember, you already have the ball at 320 grit (maroon pad); that is EXTREMELY rough and one I do not ever recommend. If you need that, you need a stronger coverstock. (Apologies! I should have mentioned that earlier.) Actually, if anyone "NEEDS" 400 grit and lower, they/you need a stronger ball (either cover or cover/core combo)
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: justink on July 14, 2006, 04:08:02 PM
As far as it being at 320, I don't know if that's exactly correct. There isn't a big difference between the grey and burg pad with that ball. Maybe I haven't gotten medieval with the pad to make it quite that dull. I use the shops spinner now, at least until I can find a cup for my home made spinner.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
Post by: charlest on July 14, 2006, 05:30:47 PM
quote:
One issue with the AP2 is I bought it from Laybzz and it has already been redrilled once. I got lucky in that my span is basically the same as his and I got away with only a change of the finger tips and slight thumb adjustment. So would it still be advisable to plug it. I guess I could map out the redrill on it and see how close that would be to the original drill. Theres an idea.
A lot depends on the ball, how it was drilled (where the holes are with respect to the core's high and low RG, etc. AFAIK, The only way to tell is to re-drill it.
quote:
As far as it being at 320, I don't know if that's exactly correct. There isn't a big difference between the grey and burg pad with that ball.
Ok, my opinion is there's a HUGE difference between 800 grit (light grey pad) and the maroon's 320 grit. It depends on how it was done. Thi smakes me wonder what you actually have and who, with what level of experience, did what to the ball. I don't doubt it, but I wonder. I now feel I don't know what grit level each ball is actually on, at this point in time.
quote:
Maybe I haven't gotten medieval with the pad to make it quite that dull. I use the shops spinner now, at least until I can find a cup for my home made spinner.
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“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.â€
-Einstein
It's not so much a question of getting "medieval", as it is a question of doing the same thing to each ball, with regards to pressure, time, water, and freshness of the nylon pad. experience means a lot in this case.Just having a feel for what you're doing and where you want to take each ball.
aybe you hit the grey pad too hard; maybe you hit the maroon pad to lightly?? I can't sayfor sure, of course, Only you can, BUT, BUT a better indicator is always ball reaction. However, different balls, with different particle loads, with different pin location/distance is a VERY, VERY difficult comparison.
The GOOD part is you are, currently using these balls as go-to's, one from the other.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: mini kahuna on July 17, 2006, 09:07:50 AM
the size of the weight hole will lower rg and make the ball rev easier for you.
don't sand the ball down it will cause it to burn up early and not save any energy for the backend.L/LM balls react to weight holes and rg changes alot more because of their deep shell and inner core construction.
Post by: chrisleftwich on July 27, 2006, 10:55:44 AM
Last night in league I was playing about 20 to 5 and it would just shot back like someone kicked it, but that is how mine is drilled for me. It clears the heads real smooth. I have mine drilled 4 x 4. I throw around 17-19 mph and have a good amount of revs.