Post by: Foppe on October 20, 2009, 09:16:36 PM
I used to throw some LM/Legend equipment lasy year, but after updating my arsenal & going up in weight, that has gone.
I got 1 more slot in my arsenal and I'm thinking about squeezing a Legend in.
Ball that has taken my interest is the Black Diamond.
Now I already have a rotogrip Rogue Cell and a storm Virtual Gravity and I fear overlap with the Black Diamond, or is the Diamond stonger than both?
Post by: golfnutFL on October 21, 2009, 10:57:50 AM
Edited on 10/21/2009 11:45 AM
Post by: LaneHammer20 on October 21, 2009, 11:29:27 AM
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What is sandbagging???
Post by: golfnutFL on October 21, 2009, 11:44:39 AM
quote:
what do you mean BTM nailed it on their 11/09 issue. Can you enlighten us on this subject a little. Does this mean they loved it or they hated it.
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What is sandbagging???
Has BTM ever expressed love or hate for a ball? That''s not really a question-- they merely point out a ball''s strengths and weaknesses.
Without reprinting any of their proprietary information, in BTM''s opinion, the BD is a skid/flip, medium oil ball. OOB is too polished for heavy oil and their length, backend, and overall hook numbers reflect a medium oil skid/flip reaction ball.
Edited on 10/21/2009 11:47 AM
Edited on 10/21/2009 11:48 AM
Post by: Foppe on October 21, 2009, 12:00:32 PM
That ball is supposed to be an earlier roller for heavy oil right?
Does the DP handle more oil than the Virtual Gravity ?
Post by: golfnutFL on October 21, 2009, 12:20:04 PM
quote:
& what about the Dynamic Power?
That ball is supposed to be an earlier roller for heavy oil right?
Does the DP handle more oil than the Virtual Gravity ?
Sorry, someone else will have to offer an opinion here as I have not thrown the Dynamic Power.
The Black Diamond is the first L/LM ball I've thrown in 1 1/2- 2 years ever since their production slowed way down from their heyday when World Class's and Big Bang's and Terminator's and Black Pearl's etc,etc, were flying off their assembly line. When their production slowed down I moved on to other companies. I was initially excited about the Black Diamond (and may be again after I tinker with the cover) and I've pre-ordered an Xtreme Damage so I am hopeful that L/LM is making a comeback.
Post by: TM3 LMBowling on October 21, 2009, 04:00:38 PM
--------------------
Tony Martin
Lane Masters Bowling
The Worlds Best Made Bowling Balls"
Post by: Foppe on October 21, 2009, 05:02:43 PM
I will go a bit more in detail towards what I need.
I need a ball that picks up soon with a nice smooth roll towards the pocket, need this ball to combat heavy (& longer oil)-conditions.
I love my gravity & rogue for these type of shots aswell, but both are drilled pin up and are more flippy, I'm looking for more of a roller to compliment them to burn a hole on the fresh.
Looking a bit more in detail on both the BD & DP, I think I can better look towards the Dynamic Power than the Black Diamond for this right?
I don't need another skid/flippy ball, just something that picks up fairly soon with a nice read/move to the pocket.
About myself (if it would make a difference): power-stroker, nowdays speed ~ 17.5 mph, revs ~ 275, maybe 300.
If anyone has expierence throwing both the DP & the VG (or Rogue Cell): I would very much like to hear the differences
Post by: Laybzz74 on October 21, 2009, 06:05:40 PM
What''s the "grit finish" of this medium-load particle UNDER the Factory Polish ???
Got mine today and it''s pretty ... and pretty shiny too.
THANX !!!
--------------------
**** Official "L/LM" ball "junkie" ****
http://www.lanemastersbowling.com
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O''Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email addy)
Edited on 10/21/2009 6:06 PM
Post by: Pat Patterson on October 22, 2009, 08:34:18 PM
I'm not Tony, but I believe it's 1000 sheen.
Pat
quote:
Tony,
What''s the "grit finish" of this medium-load particle UNDER the Factory Polish ???
Got mine today and it''s pretty ... and pretty shiny too.
THANX !!!
--------------------
**** Official "L/LM" ball "junkie" ****
http://www.lanemastersbowling.com
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O''Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
LAYBZZ74@AOL.COM (Email addy)
Edited on 10/21/2009 6:06 PM
--------------------
Pat Patterson
Post by: dennis_michael on October 23, 2009, 07:43:09 AM
The DP in drilled stacked and is my ball on heavy, longer patterns, like the Shark or the Dead Man's Curve from Kegel. It just loves the heavier conditions, and loses no energy.
My VG is my lead off ball on what our house calls their Tournament shot. It is a heavier version of a THS, but transitions very fast. The VG just cannot handle the transition, and becomes squirrely in early game 2.
I got the BD to combat this condition. It is drilled for length with a 5" pin and does just what I want it to do. I carries long and snaps. Carry down doesn't bother it.
My assessment of the 3 you asked for.
Post by: Foppe on October 23, 2009, 09:48:54 AM
thanks for this.
Yesterday I bowled on the dead man's curve, alltough my gravity can handle it, it's borderline & I want to have something that can handle the fresh long-heavy patterns better. I also bowled on the route 66 with it (45 ft) and my VG kills that pattern , but on the dead man's curve it skates a bit to long and I don't wanna adjust the cover yet (have it at 4000 Abralon).
I've cut it down to 2 options atm: the Dynamic Power or the 900Global Bounty Hunter.
With your reply now, knowing that the DP can handle that sort of conditions, I will surely look more into in, going to another shop tommorow, because oure pro-shop can get neither ball, so I'm hoping I can get a DP or BH somewhere else..
Post by: dennis_michael on October 23, 2009, 11:23:50 PM
Course, this is him bowling against me. Different balls, releases techniques and all the rest. I will say that when he wears a path to the pocket from out there, he can hit it religiously and with power. I've seen him roll 8-9 in a row over the same 8 board, where I had to move to keep the ball in the pocket.
Post by: WHOS THAT on October 24, 2009, 04:00:35 PM
If you need a heavy oil beast pick yourself up a BLACK DIAMOND today!!
--------------------
Fall Arsenal 2009
Terminator
Terminator Rebellion
Buzz Attack
Xtreme Damage
Dynamic Power or Black Diamond
Post by: golfnutFL on October 24, 2009, 09:43:51 PM
I think what you are seeing is everyone's VG is burning up while your BD is storing energy due to its high gloss finish. Unless you are Mr. Mega-Revs, this ball is not going to work on heavy stuff.
quote:
Picked up a Black Diamond 2 months ago, There's nothing on the market that can turn the corner like it. My main house puts out heavy volumes for are mens leagues, and when everyones Virtual Gravity's are struggling to recover my Black Diamond chews right thew it. My BD came polished and I left it that way, I strongly doubt there's a oil pattern that I'll encounter that will require me to alter the surface.
If you need a heavy oil beast pick yourself up a BLACK DIAMOND today!!
--------------------
Fall Arsenal 2009
Terminator
Terminator Rebellion
Buzz Attack
Xtreme Damage
Dynamic Power or Black Diamond
Post by: jbungard on October 24, 2009, 11:25:17 PM
My two cents. I see a lot of VGs and several Dynamic Powers in the Phoenix area and am of the opinion these are similar in reaction. No one I know that roll either of these two is disappointed. Two of my teammates roll Dynamic Powers as their first ball out of the bag and both see excellent reaction and carry on medium through heavy conditions.
I have a Black Diamond with close to 90 games on it. I won a scratch tournament with it shortly after picking it up and had at least as good a look on heavy conditions as anyone rolling Cells, Virtual Gravities, and whatever else those chose to roll on a pattern similar to shark. My BD is drilled close to stacked leverage and I use a 3M white pad (1200-grit ANSI/CAMI, ~3000-grit FEPA) on it about every 21 games. The ball gets good length and reads late in the midlane with a hard but controllable and easy to read turn to the pocket. Polished, I could see this skating but take the polish off and the ball is magic. Gold (ANSI/CAMI 1000 grit, FEPA 2000-grit) or white pads are the pads of choice for me. 2000-grit abralon also works for a look similar to the gold pad while 2000-grit with a quick hit of 4,000-grit abralon approximates the white pad. Unless you bowl on a flood, I wouldn't recommend the gray or burgundy pads: The BD sees the pattern too early and looks more like a DP.
One of the thing the Black Diamond has going for it is its coverstock versatility. It is more tunable than what was my experience with earlier particle balls: Lane Masters/Legends included.
There are several good reviews of the Black Diamond on this site. Pat Patterson owns two BDs and has good reviews of each with different surfaces and different drill patterns.
Foppe, There truly are a lot of excellent balls on the market. Anyone picking up the VG, Virtual Energy, Cell or Rogue Cell, or others won't go wrong. Just don't sell Lane Masters/Legends short as each of their releases in recent years has been a winner. I have both the Buzz Attack and the Black Diamond and have no regrets about picking up either of these.
golfnutFL: You owe it to yourself to knock off the polish on the Black Diamond and watch it show its stuff. As long you stay with the white and gold pads, you'll still get good length and back end even on heavier or longer patterns.
My opinion of factory finishes is that these finishes are usually tuned to medium conditions (the exception being balls marketed as "specialists" for heavy oil or light conditions which come dull and highly polished respectively). We bowl in different parts of the country with very different ideas about what constitutes a THS. In the desert, the houses are forced to put out relatively heavy patterns as the low humidity causes rapid evaporation of the conditioner. In more humid areas, the medium THS seems pretty dry to me but each locale holds its own surprises
One caution with the Black Diamond and other high differential RG pieces: If you have a lot of hand, don't drill it leverage as it will flare more than you can imagine.
Post by: icewall on October 25, 2009, 07:06:02 AM
quote:
Foppe,
My two cents. I see a lot of VGs and several Dynamic Powers in the Phoenix area and am of the opinion these are similar in reaction. No one I know that roll either of these two is disappointed. Two of my teammates roll Dynamic Powers as their first ball out of the bag and both see excellent reaction and carry on medium through heavy conditions.
I have a Black Diamond with close to 90 games on it. I won a scratch tournament with it shortly after picking it up and had at least as good a look on heavy conditions as anyone rolling Cells, Virtual Gravities, and whatever else those chose to roll on a pattern similar to shark. My BD is drilled close to stacked leverage and I use a 3M white pad (1200-grit ANSI/CAMI, ~3000-grit FEPA) on it about every 21 games. The ball gets good length and reads late in the midlane with a hard but controllable and easy to read turn to the pocket. Polished, I could see this skating but take the polish off and the ball is magic. Gold (ANSI/CAMI 1000 grit, FEPA 2000-grit) or white pads are the pads of choice for me. 2000-grit abralon also works for a look similar to the gold pad while 2000-grit with a quick hit of 4,000-grit abralon approximates the white pad. Unless you bowl on a flood, I wouldn't recommend the gray or burgundy pads: The BD sees the pattern too early and looks more like a DP.
One of the thing the Black Diamond has going for it is its coverstock versatility. It is more tunable than what was my experience with earlier particle balls: Lane Masters/Legends included.
There are several good reviews of the Black Diamond on this site. Pat Patterson owns two BDs and has good reviews of each with different surfaces and different drill patterns.
Foppe, There truly are a lot of excellent balls on the market. Anyone picking up the VG, Virtual Energy, Cell or Rogue Cell, or others won't go wrong. Just don't sell Lane Masters/Legends short as each of their releases in recent years has been a winner. I have both the Buzz Attack and the Black Diamond and have no regrets about picking up either of these.
golfnutFL: You owe it to yourself to knock off the polish on the Black Diamond and watch it show its stuff. As long you stay with the white and gold pads, you'll still get good length and back end even on heavier or longer patterns.
My opinion of factory finishes is that these finishes are usually tuned to medium conditions (the exception being balls marketed as "specialists" for heavy oil or light conditions which come dull and highly polished respectively). We bowl in different parts of the country with very different ideas about what constitutes a THS. In the desert, the houses are forced to put out relatively heavy patterns as the low humidity causes rapid evaporation of the conditioner. In more humid areas, the medium THS seems pretty dry to me but each locale holds its own surprises
One caution with the Black Diamond and other high differential RG pieces: If you have a lot of hand, don't drill it leverage as it will flare more than you can imagine.
well put!!!
Id agree with you as an owner of a BP on surface and drilling.
but its such a shame I have a black pearl sitting at home that i NEVER use. it came with too much top weight and too long of a pin and i ended up having to drill it pin down maybe 4 inches to leverage and a weight hole down very low! WAY WAY too much flare. ive seen this ball drilled like that burn up almost instantly even when polished to a mirror like shine! it ends up too much for medium polished due to its flare... and not enough for the oil when polished unless its juuuust right at medium-heavy. and then if i sand it i need to see heavy oil only and only if it holds up.
i love my BP so much. but i really wish it had normal starting weights so i could put a different drill on it
!--------------------
tournament average: 219
tweener
medium revs
medium speed
currently throwing
rotogrip rogue cell
lanemasters black pearl
storm t-road pearl
visionary ogre ss, gladiator solid
Post by: Foppe on October 26, 2009, 06:59:23 AM
thanks for the reply.
I always liked LM/Legend stuff, alltough I've only throwen 2 pieces: Sure Strike & World Class Particle. My best friend throws an XS which I recommended to him.
The problem for myself is that it's not easy to get the LM/legend balls over here in Belgium anymore & that's the #1 reason why I don't have a LM/legend ball in my arsenal anymore
I'm gonna try to visit a shop that imports bowling balls and hopefully they have either the DP or the BD - I'll make sure I'll experiment a bit more with the surfacechanges towards heavier oil, because I rarely do that - I throw 4000 Abralon finishes on heavy oil, I should try the 2000 finish more I guess
Thnx for all the replies so far.