Author Topic: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball? (Read 6762 times)

charlest · « **on:** May 02, 2008, 10:31:37 AM »

If you believe (I use this word advisedly) the BTM review of this ball (I usually do believe their analysis of balls), then how weak is this coverstock?

I ask because, as reviewed, the cover is finished with an 800 grit matte or dull surface. As things go in today's bowling world, this is an very rough coverstock finish (seeing as how Fury Pearls, Black Widows, Breaks, and Risings are finsihed with a 4000 grit finish).

Yet BTM rates this ball with a long length of 14 and a backend of "only" 14 AND and overall hook of, again, "only" 47. Torque is rated at a "calm" 6.0. These numbers describe an extremely mild ball, with an extremely mild coverstock.

What do you "believe"?
Inquiring minds want to know (really)?
Please, no jokes. This is not a joking matter. I am not spending $200 (ball + drilling) on a joke.

What have you seen using this ball?
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revTrex · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2008, 07:06:57 PM »

When I saw the BJI review, I think Joey only gave it a total hook of around 49...meaning it's definitely not a super hooker by any means. He noticed its smooth, arcing reaction -- nothing jumpy or super "exciting." It'd be a step under a Widow, a Break, etc...more along the lines of a medium oil benchmark ball.

Haven't seen one rolled in person, but having tested balls for BJI, and in knowing Joey, I trust his analysis of things.
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charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2008, 07:19:04 PM »

quote:
When I saw the BJI review, I think Joey only gave it a total hook of around 49...meaning it's definitely not a super hooker by any means. He noticed its smooth, arcing reaction -- nothing jumpy or super "exciting." It'd be a step under a Widow, a Break, etc...more along the lines of a medium oil benchmark ball.

Haven't seen one rolled in person, but having tested balls for BJI, and in knowing Joey, I trust his analysis of things.
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I understand his take on it. For him it was a much stronger ball. I'm trying to find the balance between his opinion and BTM's, who found it a much weaker ball.

FYI He gave it a 50 overall.
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revTrex · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2008, 08:12:57 PM »

Eh, my apologies on not being perfect at remembering something I saw a while ago (I don't sit at home and quiz myself on ball ratings after I read/edit them).

Also, BTW, note that a score of 50 isn't by any means super strong. I just looked up Joey's review, and, "The ball reaction shape and total hook amount basically fits in the middle of all Lane Masters' high-performance equipment. We felt the Rebellion matched up best on most medium volumes for the majority of release styles." That's pretty close to what I said. For reference, the Code was given a hook rating of 50; the Momentum a 51; the Gravity Shift a 53. So I don't think he means to say it was that much stronger. Honestly, in my opinion, you might be getting to a point where you're splitting hairs between BTM's review and BJI's. I think they tell a similar story, even if the numbers are slightly, slightly different (also remember they have different scales).

Anyways, good luck in your ball search.

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Edited on 5/2/2008 8:21 PM

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2008, 08:56:51 PM »

no offense intended, revtrex.

I'm not sure if it's splitting hairs or not. The focus of my concern in the TR at 800 grit is "only" as strong as the Momentum, the Temper, or even Lanemaster own World Class Reactive at 800/2000 grit polished. To my mind, that's a big difference.

BTM gave it an overall 47, which makes it almost a light weight by comparison. The Wizard/Nemesis at 800 grit dull got a 51 overall hook.

Everything's relative these days.
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Edited on 5/4/2008 1:07 AM

Bogeyman · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2008, 10:25:17 PM »

I have a Rebellion, I also have 2 Black Pearls, a World Class Particle and a Big R Bang. The Rebellion needs plenty of friction. It has the slowest response off the dry of any of the Lane Masters Balls that I have. When Lane Masters says control ball they mean it. It will not bounce off the dry. With the right conditions it hits as good as all LM equipment. I was hoping it would be a little stronger when I purchased for Nationals. Never matched up to with the shot in Abq for me. The track area never really dried out on our pairs. I think it will be great choice at the later stages of some tournaments as the lanes dry out. Just not what I had originally expected when I decided to purchase it. I would rate this for medium to light conditions

Edited on 5/4/2008 9:45 PM

Jay · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2008, 01:25:02 AM »

I'm not really sure about how hook ratings go in terms of the maximum possible. I do know that my driller has one and he can use it on our THS which is a little heavier in volume than medium, I'm guessing 39-40'. His ref rate is kinda high though, with the speed to match it.

The reaction seemed pretty controllable but he didn't do so well with it(bowler error I'll assume). I'd say around Medium conditions and maybe even medium-dry are the ideal conditions for this ball.

jd1319 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2008, 09:13:54 AM »

oddly enough, I'm finding my rebellion very strong in OOB condition on multiple lane conditions. Head to head from medium to heavy conditions, it has outhooked the terminator, WCPP (2 different ones with different drillings) and the black pearl. I'm really stumped as to where it fits in my arsenal. It's not just my opinion as well, a friend of my who owns a center is also seeing the same results with his rebellion and his other lanemasters equipment. (He has BP, Terminator, and several others as well)

stringer · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2008, 02:54:15 PM »

Weak and lanemaster should never be in the same sentence. I once owned a Satisfaxion that I got for dryer shots. Although this ball did not roll at your feet, it could cover the whole lane on the backend.

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2008, 03:55:23 PM »

quote:
Weak and lanemaster should never be in the same sentence. I once owned a Satisfaxion that I got for dryer shots. Although this ball did not roll at your feet, it could cover the whole lane on the backend.

I can't believe anyone is telling me that.
I kind of know that; after all I'm the one that started 90% of the people here on ballreviews on Legends/Lanemasters balls 4 years ago.

Sorry if I confused you. Let me put what I have been trying to say, as plainly as I can; so I won't confuse anyone else:

By "weak" I meant relatively, given its 800 grit stock surface. No other L/Lm ball has ever come 800 grit dull before (except maybe the Guaranteed). The XS POwer was supposed to, but Lanemasters changed their mind at the last second and made it polished. 800 grit is INCREDIBLY dull for any Lanemasters ball. 2000 grit is the roughest I have ever been able to use any Lanemasters ball Since their new line starting with the New Standard and the Yeah Baby first came out. More often, I use 4000 grit or a polsihed finish.

For an 800 grit dull Lanemasters ball to get the MILD rating that BTM gave the Terminator Rebellion, either BTM got their numbers mixed up or this is THE mildest coverstock Lanemasters has ever made.

So I wanted everyone who has used the TR to tell mehow strong or weak it is compared to their other Lanemasters balls.

Thank you.
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Edited on 5/3/2008 3:56 PM

ekster · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2008, 07:16:00 PM »

Everyone should try at least one Lanemasters or Visionary ball.

They are quality products!!
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charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2008, 07:34:36 PM »

quote:
I have seen exactly one Lane Masters ball used in my life. Visionary is not far behind.

Personally if it ain't 900 Global/AMF, Brunswick, Columbia, Ebonite, Hammer, Track, Roto/Storm I am not buying it.

A closed mind is often not a useful tool.
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Edited on 5/3/2008 7:34 PM

Keith Frye · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2008, 08:33:16 PM »

My Rebellion has a label drill with the pin above ring finger about 4.5 inches from PAP. With the box surface, it checked up too soon on most conditions for me. I hit it with Storm Step 2 and got much better length. I should mention that I have medium to medium-low ball speed.

It is definitely a control ball with not a great deal of bounce off the dry. I have not yet tried it on a house shot as I only bowled in two PBA Experience Leagues. I imagine it would play well along the oil line of a heavily walled pattern.

charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2008, 01:04:46 AM »

quote:
oddly enough, I'm finding my rebellion very strong in OOB condition on multiple lane conditions. Head to head from medium to heavy conditions, it has outhooked the terminator, WCPP (2 different ones with different drillings) and the black pearl. I'm really stumped as to where it fits in my arsenal. It's not just my opinion as well, a friend of my who owns a center is also seeing the same results with his rebellion and his other lanemasters equipment. (He has BP, Terminator, and several others as well)

jd1319,

Thanks for sharing that bit of info.

If the TR is as the BTM review says it is, this may be because there is not enough oil for the Terminator (& the WCPP and the BP, both being strongish particle balls). We know the Terminator is a solid particle meant for a good deal of oil. If the TR is hooking more than the Term itself AND the review is an accurate picture of the TR, then there must not be enough oil for it. Remember house blend tend to blur the difference between balls, allowing you to use many different balls on the same pattern.
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charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2008, 01:05:47 AM »

quote:
My Rebellion has a label drill with the pin above ring finger about 4.5 inches from PAP. With the box surface, it checked up too soon on most conditions for me. I hit it with Storm Step 2 and got much better length. I should mention that I have medium to medium-low ball speed.

It is definitely a control ball with not a great deal of bounce off the dry. I have not yet tried it on a house shot as I only bowled in two PBA Experience Leagues. I imagine it would play well along the oil line of a heavily walled pattern.

Thanks you, Keith (Frye). That would make me think the BTM review is accurate.
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Author Topic: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball? (Read 6762 times)

charlest

Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

revTrex

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

charlest

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

revTrex

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

charlest

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

Bogeyman

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

Jay

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

jd1319

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

stringer

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

charlest

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

ekster

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

charlest

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

Keith Frye

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

charlest

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?

charlest

Re: Terminator Rebellion: how weak is this ball?