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Author Topic: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls  (Read 2624 times)

ebbowler

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A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« on: March 06, 2007, 06:52:30 AM »
My dad want to get a lanemaster ball and I want to show him some videos
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robospare

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 03:20:57 PM »
buddiesproshop.com shows videos of several balls including the Terminator.
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charlest

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 05:09:42 PM »
quote:
My dad want to get a lanemaster ball and I want to show him some videos


Honest questions:
Why?
What does he expect one video to show him?
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 05:37:38 PM »
quote:
Watching the videos:

You can imagine yourself throwing the ball in the same manner on the same conditions and you too can string strikes, if you just had the “magic” ball.  Believe the hype.


Yep, plain advertising propaganda, with no facts to relate to your game.

quote:

On the other hand when I see the same person throwing different balls over the same line, you can clearly see the difference in ball reactions for that bowler on those conditions.

Not to say your results will be exactly the same, but at least it gives you a clue as to how the ball compares to others in the line. I find this much more useful when trying to decide one which ball I may buy next, especially if I have one of the balls being used.


Precisely.
When balls are drilled at least similarly, you get an idea of how they compare relative to one another, IF they are thrown by the same person on the same lane and oil pattern.

Even then, unless you throw the ball very closely to that of the demo bowler, you won't see the same differences.
The bigger the hook you throw the big the difference you see from ball to ball.


quote:

Most ball reviews (a few rare exceptions) on this site are useless, as in “hits like a truck” and “finds the pocket from anywhere,” ripping racks, or “ball is no good” leaves 10 pins.

I wish all manufactures would show a series of videos comparing their line of balls with stroker, tweener and cranker styles, along with amounts of oil and pattern. Then you could truly make an educated guess as to what would work best for your game and the conditions you bowl on.
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Windoor

A former seeker of the truth. Ignorance is bliss and that’s fine by me.


FWIW I agree. This is why a video of one ball is worse than useless, no matter who throws it and on what condition.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

chitown

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 09:39:20 AM »
quote:
quote:
My dad want to get a lanemaster ball and I want to show him some videos


Honest questions:
Why?
What does he expect one video to show him?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."


Video's give an idea of how the ball reacts.  From videos I can see if a ball is jumpy off the break.  If a ball is really jumpy off the break then I don't want it.  So video's can show this.

I think video's can be helpful.  
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real!  Using this ball is like cheating!

Edited on 3/22/2007 9:41 AM
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charlest

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 10:42:03 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
My dad want to get a lanemaster ball and I want to show him some videos


Honest questions:
Why?
What does he expect one video to show him?
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."


Video's give an idea of how the ball reacts.


NO, it cannot. It tells you how HIS ball, drilled for HIM, works for HIM on HIS oil pattern. It won't tell you squat about how it will react for you, jumpy or not. Many factors from a bowler's delivery specifications AND ball speed and rilling are involved in determining how any ball reacts for any one bowler on any one oil pattern.

quote:

 From videos I can see if a ball is jumpy off the break.  If a ball is really jumpy off the break then I don't want it.  So video's can show this.

I think video's can be helpful.  
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real!  Using this ball is like cheating!


That is true IF AN ONLY IF
1. you play on exactly the same oil pattern as the guy in the video, AND
2. you throw the ball exactly the same with exactly the same ball speed as the guy in the video, AND
3. you drill your ball exactly the same as the guy in the video.

Otherwise, that video will lead you to make false assumptions and it does NOT, it CANNOT provide you with one bit of usefull information.

Even when the guy throws another ball to compare the first one to, unless you throw the ball EXACTLY the same as he does, your difference between those two ball will be different from his.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."


Edited on 3/23/2007 10:42 PM
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

P0wa

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2007, 05:11:04 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU1T6m8v1Ls

here you go
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Storm - Agent
Storm - Domination
Storm - Special Agent
Storm - Spitfire
Legends - Worldclass
Columbia - Blue dot

Check my vids on
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=P0wa77
Layout pics of balls on http://www.putfile.com/p0wa
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chitown

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2007, 10:32:15 AM »
quote:
quote:
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From videos I can see if a ball is jumpy off the break. If a ball is really jumpy off the break then I don't want it. So video's can show this.

I think video's can be helpful.
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real! Using this ball is like cheating!


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That is true IF AN ONLY IF
1. you play on exactly the same oil pattern as the guy in the video, AND
2. you throw the ball exactly the same with exactly the same ball speed as the guy in the video, AND
3. you drill your ball exactly the same as the guy in the video.



Charlest, I disagree with you on this.  Take a look at the vids of the lane master balls on Buddies.  The same guy is rolling each of those balls.  You can see the difference in reaction between the different balls.  When he's rolling the Black Pearl it has a different reaction than when he rolls the WCR.  I know from watching those two vids that the Black Pearl is a stronger bowling ball that has more of a strong arc type of reaction to it compared to the WCR.

You can tell if a ball has a smooth reaction compared to a flippy reaction by watching a vid.  To me this is useful.  

I don't need to have the same exact style as the guy on the vid.  The guy on the lane master vid has decent revs on the ball and his ball roll is similar to mine.  By watching him roll these balls and seeing the layouts he used is informative to me.

I don't know how you can't see the difference in the balls he rolled.  Watch him roll the WCR, BP, WCS, straight flush.  I can see the different reaction characteristics of each ball.

Another example of some informative vids is buddies total inferno vid.  The vid shows 2 total inferno's with different layouts.  One shows a pin up layout that produces a strong down lane reaction.  The other layout is a pin down and it shows the back end being more controllable.  I don't have to roll the ball exactly like the guy on the vid or on the same exact pattern.  I can see how the different layouts changed the back end reaction on this particular ball.

So we will have to agree to disagree on this vid thing.


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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real!  Using this ball is like cheating!

Edited on 3/24/2007 10:45 AM

Edited on 3/24/2007 10:46 AM
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charlest

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2007, 02:25:03 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From videos I can see if a ball is jumpy off the break. If a ball is really jumpy off the break then I don't want it. So video's can show this.
I think video's can be helpful.
--------------------
HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real! Using this ball is like cheating!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is true IF AN ONLY IF
1. you play on exactly the same oil pattern as the guy in the video, AND
2. you throw the ball exactly the same with exactly the same ball speed as the guy in the video, AND
3. you drill your ball exactly the same as the guy in the video.


Charlest, I disagree with you on this.  Take a look at the vids of the lane master balls on Buddies.  The same guy is rolling each of those balls.  You can see the difference in reaction between the different balls.  When he's rolling the Black Pearl it has a different reaction than when he rolls the WCR.  I know from watching those two vids that the Black Pearl is a stronger bowling ball that has more of a strong arc type of reaction to it compared to the WCR.

You can tell if a ball has a smooth reaction compared to a flippy reaction by watching a vid.  To me this is useful.  


If it were true, it would be useful. poeple's releases can be so different that someone with no axis tilt and little rotation will make a flippy ball seem arcy and people with high axis tilt and, maybe, lots of rotation will make an arcy ball seem flippy.

I guaranatee this has happenedmany times before and will happen again.

THAT IS WHY, you may gain some information about a ball if those 3 conditions are true. Drillings and oil patterns will affect the ball's reactions in the same way.

quote:

I don't need to have the same exact style as the guy on the vid.  The guy on the lane master vid has decent revs on the ball and his ball roll is similar to mine.  By watching him roll these balls and seeing the layouts he used is informative to me.


Not true, for the reasons as stated above. His rev rate is only ONE of many possible factors that affect the roll, ball path and reaction of the ball, AND it is one of the smallest factors.

quote:

I don't know how you can't see the difference in the balls he rolled.  Watch him roll the WCR, BP, WCS, straight flush.  I can see the different reaction characteristics of each ball.


I am not interested in his throwing the ball. Unless I know all his factors and all the other factors, THAT I HAVE LEARNED ARE IMPORTANT, WHAT HE DOES IS NOT IMPORTANT AND WILL NOT AFFECT MY BUYING OF THAT BALL.

quote:

Another example of some informative vids is buddies total inferno vid.  The vid shows 2 total inferno's with different layouts.  One shows a pin up layout that produces a strong down lane reaction.  The other layout is a pin down and it shows the back end being more controllable.  I don't have to roll the ball exactly like the guy on the vid or on the same exact pattern.  I can see how the different layouts changed the back end reaction on this particular ball.

So we will have to agree to disagree on this vid thing.
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real!  Using this ball is like cheating!


Maybe you don't understand how the ball speed, rev rate, axis tilt, rotation and the oil pattern affect the reaction, roll, and ball path of every ball. ALL those are ESSENTIAL ingredients. They change everything about every ball's reactions.

I'm not agreeing to disagree here. This is not a moot discussion; I believe there are factors involved that you need to study more.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2007, 12:08:58 PM »
quote:
Chitown,

Charlest can be a bit (let us say) harsh in his assessments, but as one of the more knowledgeable members here, you’d be a fool not to take his advice and core arguments seriously.



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Windoor

A former seeker of the truth. Ignorance is bliss and that’s fine by me.

I don't mean to come across harsh. Many considerations in bowling have a wide range of possibilities and probabilities, but there are some where the picture is not clear cut at all. I believe very strongly that videos if not taken in the right light is one that will lead you to the wrong conclusions VERY easily.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

chitown

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2007, 01:41:08 AM »
quote:
Chitown,

Charlest can be a bit (let us say) harsh in his assessments, but as one of the more knowledgeable members here, you’d be a fool not to take his advice and core arguments seriously.



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Windoor

A former seeker of the truth. Ignorance is bliss and that’s fine by me.


I'm not taking his comments as being Harsh.  However to say I would be a fool not to take his advice and core arguments seriously?  

I will agree to disagree with him on the vid subject.  If I see a vid of the same bowler rolling a few different balls, I can get some useful info from that.  Charlest stressed his view on vids and I disagree with them.

It's that simple!
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HAMMER NO MERCY is Un-freaking real!  Using this ball is like cheating!
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scotts33

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Re: A Video of terminator hornet or other balls
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2007, 03:02:13 PM »
I do agree with charlest on video's for many of the same reasons.  We have had this discussion before and it amounted to about the same thing.
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Scott

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Scott
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