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Author Topic: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?  (Read 1304 times)

Pinbuster

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Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« on: July 13, 2004, 09:11:04 PM »
Are today’s new bowlers really better athletes than the bowlers of previous generations or are they simply a product of their environment?  

Someone mad a statement in another post about Jesse Owens. Given today’s track surfaces, today’s shoes, today’s timing devices, today’s financing to train year round, and today’s nutrition how much faster would he have run? Might he still break the current world records?

Times are so different in other ways as well. My brother held several rushing records for football in  my high school and they have since been broken. But in many cases my brother did not even play the second half of the game if it was out question who would win. The kids who have broken the record are now urged to stay in the whole game and rack up the statistics. Some might have beaten his records anyway but how do you determine who the better athlete was?

Kids today as a whole are not in as good as shape as my generation was. That doesn’t make them poorer in athletic ability but simply they are not in as good shape. With modern training techniques some of today’s kids are in better shape than any of my generation but does that make them better athletes.

As I have said before much of the power and style of modern bowlers comes from the environment they learned in not in their athletic prow less. Modern lane surfaces, lane machines, and balls are conducive to developing certain styles to maximize scoring.

Many of today’s top bowlers are excellent athletes with superior hand eye coordination but top bowlers of the past had those same attributes.

Better athletic ability has little to do with it.
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mumzie

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2004, 12:58:32 PM »
For the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to call out two different types of bowlers.
Joe and Jane Recreation bowler are definitely NOT in as good a shape as they would have been 20-30-40 years ago. No question.

Eddie and Evie Elite bowler have probably a 50-50 chance of being in better shape than they were before. Some of the guys take their fitness regimen very seriously, and are in much better overall shape. I know that I am definitely NOT in that category, although my intentions are good.

However - there have been many times during a practice session where my younger counterparts (10-20 years younger) have cried uncle after only 8 games - I'll keep going for 10 or 12. So, I guess that counts for something.

and don't forget all those bowlers who develop upper body strength carrying in 5 2 ball totes to league!
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Pinbuster

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2004, 02:14:39 PM »
Sawbones -  But I don’t know if bigger and stronger necessarily equate to better in bowling.

Many of the strongest balls I have seen thrown are by slighty built shorter guys. If strength was a big factor I would throw truck instead of my weenie little ball.

Conditioning and strength come into play (particularly in longer formats) but its being  
coordinated  (particularly hand eye) and supple that make up a good bowler.

I’m reasonably certain that Dick Weber, Don Carter, Ray Bluth, Carmen Salvino, Count Gengler, etc would have all figured out styles that would have made them champions today in bowling

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da Shiv

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2004, 03:04:39 PM »
quote:
Maybe as a nation, we are not as healthy or in as good a shape as past generations, but those who participate in sports are no doubt bigger, stronger and in better shape than those of the past and that includes bowling.


I agree with the above statement.  I think today's kids are undoubtedly softer and fatter than kids used to be.  On the other hand, I think that today's serious ATHLETES, kids included, are in better shape than most athletes used to be years ago.

I've observed that most of the best bowlers, both here locally and among the pros, tend to be little, skinny guys.  Of course, there are top pros like WRW and Mika who are tall, but that seems to be an exception.  Successful pros who are tall AND muscular are pretty much non-existent.  The main "athletic" attribute that successful bowlers seem to need is stamina.  People of any size can have stamina--either because of their genetics, or their exercise regimen--or both--so why are most successful bowlers kind of small and light?

I saw something awhile back written by Bill Taylor (genuflect here) where he propounded his theory about arm length.  I can't remember whether it was a specific arm length regardless of height, or if it was a certain arm length to body height ratio.  He claimed that with that measurement, he could tell whether someone would be likely to succeed as a bowler.  I remember that he pointed out that Dick Weber fit his theory exactly.

Shiv
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Ragnar

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2004, 03:23:31 PM »
Shiv, I've got an idea about why you don't see many tall guys who are good bowlers.  Being 6' 4" myself I have some basis for this.  I think it's just too darn hard to keep your timing together when your swing arc is that large.  Shorter guys, with good timing and footwork, can develop just as much leverage as the taller folk, but with far fewer timing issues.
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mumzie

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2004, 03:53:29 PM »
Rags - does that hold for "two holes" too???
Any time you mention "swing arc" his name comes to mind.
He generally does ok!
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Ragnar

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2004, 04:00:31 PM »
Mumzie, there are exceptions.  Tuholes is one, Steve Cook also comes to mind.  But I think, in general, bigger folk have more trouble with timing.  Also true for golf, I think.  You don't see many large guys playing in the PGA.  But Tuholes is amazing.  I wonder how many scoring monitors he's taken out?
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da Shiv

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2004, 06:13:45 PM »
quote:
I think it's just too darn hard to keep your timing together when your swing arc is that large.


I think that this is very likely.  During the baseball All-Star Game the other night, they showed a snippet of an interview with Randy Johnson where he commented on that very issue.  He said that his height (6"10") was a real detriment to him in his early days, as it gave him all kinds of trouble trying to keep his timing and rhythm consistent.  Most major league baseball players seem to be in the 6'2"-6'4" range these days, with 6'6" not extremely unusual, but taller than that is pretty rare.  Randy Johnson overcame his height "problem" pretty well.  It's considered by most hitters to be a big advantage for him now.

A lot of bulky muscularity may be rare in elite bowlers because it's probably difficult to avoid muscling the ball when doing so is so easy for such a person to do.  They could be doing it without even realizing it.  I had a bit of that problem in my practice session the other day.  I'm not really big and muscular, but at 6'0" and 215 lbs., I'm pretty good size.  I was struggling a bit and couldn't figure out why.  I found out the next day when the back of my shoulder was a little sore.  I was lifting the ball into my backswing--something I should not be doing--and didn't realize it.  

Shiv
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DavidKSNK

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Re: Are today's bowlers really better athletes?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2004, 12:50:04 AM »
quote:
I think that too many old people don't recognize that most people in sports today are way better that they were back a long time ago. People today are bigger all around and in better shape than people from a long time ago.

Bowler's have to bowl on different patterns and there are so many balls to use today than when Don Carter and those older people bowled. I don't think that they would be as good as the people of today but that is my opinion.

In Boxing I hate when they use to call Ali the greatest of all time. If you could take Ali from in his prime and put him in with Lennox Lewis when he is in great shape Lennox would knock him out with ease. I mean Ali helped train a bigger and better shaped guy named Larry Holmes and Larry was the only person to knock out Ali.

I think that the best way to compare old vs. new would be too look at stuff like cars. An old funny car would run 7s and now they run 4s. Back then 20mpg would be good and now it's 30+mpg for most cars.

Evolution and Technology is great and I am glad to be 6'6" rather than be 5'9".
I am glad that I am in better shape than when my dad was my age(5'9" and 170lbs. and had only a 6-pack) My dad's '69 COPO Camaro which is a special factory racing model which ran 11's wouldn't be able to touch mine which is more streetable than his was and it runs 9's.
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As for the 1969 COPO Camaro issue, I've already debated this to death elsewhere on the internet. If you drive one that is running the 15 x 7 Rally Wheels wrapped in the Goodyear Polyglas F70-15's or E70-15's certainly the time's will suffer. You need to match up the tires to get an idea. The '69 Z/28 sitting in my garage will outrun most cars on the street in it's stock form. It's good for low 13's high 12's in the 1/4 mile. See, most people don't know how to drive true Muscle Cars, let alone tune the engine properly. As a result they don't perform up to what they can on a good set of tires. I've seen a '69 ZL-1 427 Camaro go into the 9's on just a set of wrinkle walls.
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