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Author Topic: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls  (Read 5728 times)

Brickguy221

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14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« on: December 30, 2004, 01:47:42 AM »
I'm 67 and will be 68 in Feb. I've been throwing 15# balls since the mid 80's. The last couple of years they have began to feel heavy at times. Some days they aren't too bad and other days they feel like they weigh 20#. Some days my arm and shoulder are tired after only 3 games and other days they are OK. I have been playing around with a 14# ball. Have probably thrown it 15-20 games over the last couple months. Some days it feels perfect and some days it feels like it only weighs 10#. If I throw it several games and then throw my 15# balls regardless of whether it is that same day or the next, I can't hardley get the 15# out on the lane for the first 5-6 frames or so.....So, what I am leading to here is that I hope I didn't make a mistake by ordering a 14# ball today. I hope my hit and carry don't suffer. What is everyones opinion about the hit and carry of 14# vs 15#?
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Ragnar

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2004, 09:53:30 AM »
Brick, I've had very spotty experience with 14's - 4 balls only.  I had one of the Monsters that, once in a while, was good, but mostly hit like junk.  I had a Roto Rush that was great, always - tremendous hit and carry.  The other two I won't even dignify with names (if I could remember).  They were forgettable, as was their hit and carry - zilch.  

We often talk about matching up with balls and conditions.  I believe that the extra pound can help you out even when revs/speed don't exactly match.  But I think this is very critical when you go down to 14, much more so than with heavier balls - the lighter you go the more necessary it is to match revs and speed (didn't Charlest have a minor dissertation on this once?).  So, do your research, if you have a "go to" company I'd stick with them until proven otherwise.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2004, 10:00:36 AM »
I've never gone down from the weights I started with years ago! I have seen a friend hurt his back and resulted in him dropping to 15 pounds and eventually to 14 pounds.

Going to 15 didn't seem to effect his average (about 205).. in fact he claimed he changed nothing (speed/arm swing/spots) .. back problems forced him lower in weights. At 14 pounds he started to notice a difference in CARRY! At this point he made a lot of adjustments and his average did show a decline.

When his back showed an improvement he did work his way back up in the weights. Honestly don't know if he stayed at 15 or worked back to the 16.

I wish you luck .. would be interested to know what happens with the different weights!

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nd300

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2004, 10:01:13 AM »
I agree with Rags here. Your pro shop operator should be able to help you,depending on the knowledge that he has. If you don't feel comfortable then drive to a good one on a weekend when your time constraints might not be as bad.
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JohnP

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2004, 10:31:59 AM »
Brick -- I had used 16 lb balls since I bought my first Black Beauty in 1963.  But after my hip replacement about two years ago, I decided to try a 14 lb AZO Red Fire.  I never was satisfied with the carry it got, and went back to 16 lb balls after about 4 months.  But I am speed challenged - about 13.5 mph on the Qubica system.  My observation has been that bowlers that can throw the 14 lb balls faster than the heavier ones do not lose carry as I did.  Unfortunately, the 14 lber didn't go any faster than the 16 for me.  --  JohnP

TheBowlingKid25

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2004, 10:41:50 AM »
I used to throw 14#, and I know other people who throw 14#, and the difference in carry is not on pocket hits. The difference is light, or heavy hits. On light hits 15# scatters the pins much more, and on heavy hits, 15# leaves more splits, since it drives harder. That has been my experience with 14# and 15#.
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Brickguy221

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2004, 11:56:21 AM »
quote:
We often talk about matching up with balls and conditions. I believe that the extra pound can help you out even when revs/speed don't exactly match. But I think this is very critical when you go down to 14, much more so than with heavier balls - the lighter you go the more necessary it is to match revs and speed  


Rags, I believe that you are right about matching balls and conditions to the bowler. (You can read my profile) I have to have stronger balls and stronger drillings for the same conditions that others require weaker balls and weaker drillings for. I also have to have not so shiny and highly polished covers that others have to have really shiny-polished covers for. I lean forward and have had a forced swing for 30 years or so. Have been to several instructers (coaches) and none have been successful in helping me to overcome it. I have low revs. Some times very-very low revs, which of coarse come from my squeezing the ball because of my forced swing.

What I am leading to here is that I am wondering if I have all strong balls and drillings, if I can survive on 14# balls. For example, I have a 14# Storm Triple X Factor that I recently traded for because I wanted to experiment with 14# balls. I had it replugged and redrilled strong with Pin under RF and the RAD in the strong position. I have been playing around with it lately. The biggest difference I have noticed is what TheBowlingKid25 said about light pocket hits. The 15# scatters the pins better. On the same hit with the 14#, I sometimes leave the 2-4-10 split. On good hits, I think for me the 14# carries the 10 pin better, but too early to judge.

As I already said, I have low revs and sometimes very low. With the 14#, my revs go way-way-way up to about what others throw. Maybe a bit lower, but not a lot. I think this may be because of my having to squeeze the ball because of my forced swing. With the lighter weight, I seem to be able to swing the ball a bit better and don't have to squeeze so hard.

Back to match up, as already mentioned, I need stronger balls and stronger drillings. The Triple X Factor I have been experimenting with is a strong ball on light to medium oil conditions (anyhow it is for me on those conditions) and as already said, it is drilled strong and the cover very-very shiny. I didn't have to dull the cover even a tiny bit as I usually do on other balls. Yesterday, I bowled 168 with the Depth Charge and 155 with the Extreme. The third game I switched to this 14# Triple X Factor and bowled 214 with one split and two missed 10 pins.

I have ordered the Impluse Zone in 14# which is supposed to be a strong ball from what I have heard, but don't know. Will drill it strong like my other balls. My average has always been in the mid to high 190's since the late 1980's. This year it is 169 in one house and 180 in the other. I have been bowling as many series in the 400's as the 500's with very few 600's. I am just hoping that strong type balls in 14# will work for me because I have done so bad with my 15's the past 12-15 months that I am on the verge of quitting bowling, but decided first to try 14# balls first and see if that would help.

Sorry for such a long post. I guess I should have wrote this when I posted the topic. Anne Marie Duggan is my pro shop person. She said that heavier is always better, but that as I age, I will probably eventually have to go 14#, so try it now since I seem to be having some success with the 14# Triple X Factor and see what happens. She advised me to keep my 15# Extreme and Depth Charge for a bit before selling them.

Has anyone else been thru something like this and then changed ball weights and it helped?
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

seadrive

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2004, 03:21:44 PM »
Brick,

On solid pocket shots, you will not notice any loss of carry with 14#, and your carry may actually improve (not as many stone 8's, for example).

But on off-shots, you will not get the pins to mix as well with 14# as you did with 15#, that's just the way it is.

So... going to 14# will make you a better bowler, because you have to be.  

Perhaps not a better scorer, but a better bowler.

You can't wait forever, so do it now.  I don't think you'll regret it.
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Brickguy221

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2004, 03:50:34 PM »
quote:
But on off-shots, you will not get the pins to mix as well with 14# as you did with 15#, that's just the way it is.

 

Waaaahhhhh!!!! That's not what I wanted to hear.....lol

Now in my kidding aside Seadrive, will the strength of the ball help overide this situtation a little. In other words, I require stronger balls for everything. Or is it all about the heavier weight pushing thru the rack?

I know that back in the mid 80's when I switched from 16# to 15#, I couldn't tell any difference in carry. Is 15# the cut off point for getting a ball to mix on off shots? I'm trying to learn something here before getting the ball drilled next Wednesday.

Since My revs tremendusly increased so much with the 14#, would this help overcome the off hits? This all scares me to death, but I am ready to quit with the results I am getting with 15# all because (I believe) that I don't have a free swing.
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2004, 03:59:07 PM »
More revs DO help scatter pins more, but I still dont think 14# carries 'off' shots as well as 15.
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shortnerd

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2004, 04:01:33 PM »
Due to arthritis in my hand and knee (I'll be 43 on Sunday), I went down from 15lb to 14lb this year.  My average is still around 205, and I threw a 736 with my 14lb Monster Bruiser last week, and a 676 with my 14lb Norm Duke Hammer the week before.  Since I have more ball speed and a later breakpoint w/ the 14's, I haven't noticed much difference with carry on light hits unless I choke up on the release.  If I don't come out clean, I can get some pretty interesting leaves.  I have also noticed that I am more accurate w/ 14.

Switching back and forth between 14 and 15 would hose up my timing, which was what got me to commit to 14 this year.  

By the way, I just ordered an Impulse Zone myself!

Best of luck!!

short nerd

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Brickguy221

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2004, 06:08:27 PM »
quote:
With a drop in weight I have known and tend to see in others that have dropped I tend to be more accurate i.e. not as many pitches or pulls.  
Vnadosky, I have experienced in my wxperimenting with the 14#, exactly what you said above. In fact I am way more accurate in my experimenting with the 14# plus a huge increase in revs.
 
quote:
Ron Clifton on his website tips suggest the proper way to determine ball weight for you is to hold your ball down to the side with fingers and thumb in it and cup your wrist if you can comfortably hold the ball in that position for 10 secs then it isn't too heavy for you.
 

I can hold it for 10 seconds and with a free swing, I would probably be OK, but with my forced swing and having to squeeze the ball somewhat because of my forced swing, over rides the 10 second thing...I think. Anyhow I have to work hard at times to get the 15# ball out on the lane whereas with the 14#, it is no trouble at all plus I don't have to squeeze the ball as hard and even have a tiny bit of a more free swing.
 
quote:
I think a key factor you're missing is that if you switch to 14 lbs and feel better during and after bowling, then losing a little carry is worth it.
 

Thevadon, thanks for the vote of confidence as that is how I feel about it also. As I have already mentioned in this Topic, I was getting ready to quit, and spend my money elswhere that I might enjoy it more, but decided to give it one last try with the 14#.
 
quote:
Since I have more ball speed and a later breakpoint w/ the 14's, I haven't noticed much difference with carry on light hits unless I choke up on the release

Shortnerd, thanks for responding as this is exactly what I have noticed thru my experimenting withthe 14#

And thanks a bunch to all of you people/friends that have responded here. Just let me know if I can help any of you people.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

RaginCajun

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2004, 06:17:38 PM »
Well i bought my dad a 14# Phenom and he has
changed nothing. He loves this ball. For 1
he has more control and for 2 he gets more
revs which leads to better carry. Yes i said
better carry. Before i bought this ball he
was using 16# and averaging 182. Since going
to 14# his average has gone up to 197. I have
to tell you when i stand back and watch this
ball hit the pocket i am stunned. I dont know
who else has used a 14# Phenom but i can tell
you that it is an awesome ball.
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Brickguy221

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2004, 06:26:25 PM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well i bought my dad a 14# Phenom and he has
changed nothing. He loves this ball. For 1
he has more control and for 2 he gets more
revs which leads to better carry. Yes i said
better carry.

By now, I am totally convinced that I am making the right move.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

Brickguy221

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Re: 14# Balls vs 15# Balls
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2004, 10:28:38 PM »
quote:
Jim youve got to stop squeezing your "balls"! Why do you do that, is it because your grip is too loose?


ROTFLMAO.......Harry that one made my day.

In regards to stronger balls, thanks for the suggestions. At the moment, the two houses I bowl in never oil heavy enough for balls that strong. Currently balls like the Triple X Factor, Depth Charge, Triple X Extreme, and I'm betting on the Impulse Zone will be plenty strong for now. Again, thanks for the tip and in the meanwhile I'll try to stop squeezing............
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"