Post by: Brickguy221 on December 30, 2004, 01:47:42 AM
Post by: Ragnar on December 30, 2004, 09:53:30 AM
We often talk about matching up with balls and conditions. I believe that the extra pound can help you out even when revs/speed don't exactly match. But I think this is very critical when you go down to 14, much more so than with heavier balls - the lighter you go the more necessary it is to match revs and speed (didn't Charlest have a minor dissertation on this once?). So, do your research, if you have a "go to" company I'd stick with them until proven otherwise.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 30, 2004, 10:00:36 AM
Going to 15 didn't seem to effect his average (about 205).. in fact he claimed he changed nothing (speed/arm swing/spots) .. back problems forced him lower in weights. At 14 pounds he started to notice a difference in CARRY! At this point he made a lot of adjustments and his average did show a decline.
When his back showed an improvement he did work his way back up in the weights. Honestly don't know if he stayed at 15 or worked back to the 16.
I wish you luck .. would be interested to know what happens with the different weights!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: nd300 on December 30, 2004, 10:01:13 AM
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Chris
Post by: JohnP on December 30, 2004, 10:31:59 AM
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on December 30, 2004, 10:41:50 AM
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16 years old, and proud of it! Still not mature either!
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 30, 2004, 11:56:21 AM
quote:
We often talk about matching up with balls and conditions. I believe that the extra pound can help you out even when revs/speed don't exactly match. But I think this is very critical when you go down to 14, much more so than with heavier balls - the lighter you go the more necessary it is to match revs and speed
Rags, I believe that you are right about matching balls and conditions to the bowler. (You can read my profile) I have to have stronger balls and stronger drillings for the same conditions that others require weaker balls and weaker drillings for. I also have to have not so shiny and highly polished covers that others have to have really shiny-polished covers for. I lean forward and have had a forced swing for 30 years or so. Have been to several instructers (coaches) and none have been successful in helping me to overcome it. I have low revs. Some times very-very low revs, which of coarse come from my squeezing the ball because of my forced swing.
What I am leading to here is that I am wondering if I have all strong balls and drillings, if I can survive on 14# balls. For example, I have a 14# Storm Triple X Factor that I recently traded for because I wanted to experiment with 14# balls. I had it replugged and redrilled strong with Pin under RF and the RAD in the strong position. I have been playing around with it lately. The biggest difference I have noticed is what TheBowlingKid25 said about light pocket hits. The 15# scatters the pins better. On the same hit with the 14#, I sometimes leave the 2-4-10 split. On good hits, I think for me the 14# carries the 10 pin better, but too early to judge.
As I already said, I have low revs and sometimes very low. With the 14#, my revs go way-way-way up to about what others throw. Maybe a bit lower, but not a lot. I think this may be because of my having to squeeze the ball because of my forced swing. With the lighter weight, I seem to be able to swing the ball a bit better and don't have to squeeze so hard.
Back to match up, as already mentioned, I need stronger balls and stronger drillings. The Triple X Factor I have been experimenting with is a strong ball on light to medium oil conditions (anyhow it is for me on those conditions) and as already said, it is drilled strong and the cover very-very shiny. I didn't have to dull the cover even a tiny bit as I usually do on other balls. Yesterday, I bowled 168 with the Depth Charge and 155 with the Extreme. The third game I switched to this 14# Triple X Factor and bowled 214 with one split and two missed 10 pins.
I have ordered the Impluse Zone in 14# which is supposed to be a strong ball from what I have heard, but don't know. Will drill it strong like my other balls. My average has always been in the mid to high 190's since the late 1980's. This year it is 169 in one house and 180 in the other. I have been bowling as many series in the 400's as the 500's with very few 600's. I am just hoping that strong type balls in 14# will work for me because I have done so bad with my 15's the past 12-15 months that I am on the verge of quitting bowling, but decided first to try 14# balls first and see if that would help.
Sorry for such a long post. I guess I should have wrote this when I posted the topic. Anne Marie Duggan is my pro shop person. She said that heavier is always better, but that as I age, I will probably eventually have to go 14#, so try it now since I seem to be having some success with the 14# Triple X Factor and see what happens. She advised me to keep my 15# Extreme and Depth Charge for a bit before selling them.
Has anyone else been thru something like this and then changed ball weights and it helped?
Post by: seadrive on December 30, 2004, 03:21:44 PM
On solid pocket shots, you will not notice any loss of carry with 14#, and your carry may actually improve (not as many stone 8's, for example).
But on off-shots, you will not get the pins to mix as well with 14# as you did with 15#, that's just the way it is.
So... going to 14# will make you a better bowler, because you have to be.
Perhaps not a better scorer, but a better bowler.
You can't wait forever, so do it now. I don't think you'll regret it.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 30, 2004, 03:50:34 PM
quote:
But on off-shots, you will not get the pins to mix as well with 14# as you did with 15#, that's just the way it is.
Waaaahhhhh!!!! That's not what I wanted to hear.....lol
Now in my kidding aside Seadrive, will the strength of the ball help overide this situtation a little. In other words, I require stronger balls for everything. Or is it all about the heavier weight pushing thru the rack?
I know that back in the mid 80's when I switched from 16# to 15#, I couldn't tell any difference in carry. Is 15# the cut off point for getting a ball to mix on off shots? I'm trying to learn something here before getting the ball drilled next Wednesday.
Since My revs tremendusly increased so much with the 14#, would this help overcome the off hits? This all scares me to death, but I am ready to quit with the results I am getting with 15# all because (I believe) that I don't have a free swing.
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on December 30, 2004, 03:59:07 PM
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16 years old, and proud of it! Still not mature either!
Post by: shortnerd on December 30, 2004, 04:01:33 PM
Switching back and forth between 14 and 15 would hose up my timing, which was what got me to commit to 14 this year.
By the way, I just ordered an Impulse Zone myself!
Best of luck!!
short nerd
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 30, 2004, 06:08:27 PM
quote:Vnadosky, I have experienced in my wxperimenting with the 14#, exactly what you said above. In fact I am way more accurate in my experimenting with the 14# plus a huge increase in revs.
With a drop in weight I have known and tend to see in others that have dropped I tend to be more accurate i.e. not as many pitches or pulls.
quote:
Ron Clifton on his website tips suggest the proper way to determine ball weight for you is to hold your ball down to the side with fingers and thumb in it and cup your wrist if you can comfortably hold the ball in that position for 10 secs then it isn't too heavy for you.
I can hold it for 10 seconds and with a free swing, I would probably be OK, but with my forced swing and having to squeeze the ball somewhat because of my forced swing, over rides the 10 second thing...I think. Anyhow I have to work hard at times to get the 15# ball out on the lane whereas with the 14#, it is no trouble at all plus I don't have to squeeze the ball as hard and even have a tiny bit of a more free swing.
quote:
I think a key factor you're missing is that if you switch to 14 lbs and feel better during and after bowling, then losing a little carry is worth it.
Thevadon, thanks for the vote of confidence as that is how I feel about it also. As I have already mentioned in this Topic, I was getting ready to quit, and spend my money elswhere that I might enjoy it more, but decided to give it one last try with the 14#.
quote:
Since I have more ball speed and a later breakpoint w/ the 14's, I haven't noticed much difference with carry on light hits unless I choke up on the release
Shortnerd, thanks for responding as this is exactly what I have noticed thru my experimenting withthe 14#
And thanks a bunch to all of you people/friends that have responded here. Just let me know if I can help any of you people.
Post by: RaginCajun on December 30, 2004, 06:17:38 PM
changed nothing. He loves this ball. For 1
he has more control and for 2 he gets more
revs which leads to better carry. Yes i said
better carry. Before i bought this ball he
was using 16# and averaging 182. Since going
to 14# his average has gone up to 197. I have
to tell you when i stand back and watch this
ball hit the pocket i am stunned. I dont know
who else has used a 14# Phenom but i can tell
you that it is an awesome ball.
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"Life Is Like A Coin. You Can Spend It Any Way You Wish, But You Only Spend It Once"............Lillian Dickson
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 30, 2004, 06:26:25 PM
quote:
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Well i bought my dad a 14# Phenom and he has
changed nothing. He loves this ball. For 1
he has more control and for 2 he gets more
revs which leads to better carry. Yes i said
better carry.
By now, I am totally convinced that I am making the right move.
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 30, 2004, 10:28:38 PM
quote:
Jim youve got to stop squeezing your "balls"! Why do you do that, is it because your grip is too loose?
ROTFLMAO.......Harry that one made my day.
In regards to stronger balls, thanks for the suggestions. At the moment, the two houses I bowl in never oil heavy enough for balls that strong. Currently balls like the Triple X Factor, Depth Charge, Triple X Extreme, and I'm betting on the Impulse Zone will be plenty strong for now. Again, thanks for the tip and in the meanwhile I'll try to stop squeezing............
Post by: seadrive on December 31, 2004, 06:57:27 AM
If you get more revs and are more accurate with 14#, and you can roll it (free armswing) rather than throw it, and it doesn't screw up your timing, then I think the switch will do you good. Some people are so used to the extra pound or two that it's difficult for them to throw lighter-weight balls.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 31, 2004, 09:57:35 AM
quote:
Brick,
If you get more revs and are more accurate with 14#, and you can roll it (free armswing) rather than throw it, and it doesn't screw up your timing, then I think the switch will do you good. Some people are so used to the extra pound or two that it's difficult for them to throw lighter-weight balls.
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Seadrive, excellent point/advice. Time will tell, as I definitely swing the ball easier and better at 14#. I'll be practicing some more with the 14# this afternoon. I'm limited to one ball at the moment, but when practicing, working on technique is more important than score anyhow.
Edited on 12/31/2004 10:57 AM
Post by: baiki on December 31, 2004, 10:29:45 AM
Brickguy221,
I'm in your age group. My main arsenal is 15 with a couple of 14's. ( Thunder Road Pearl, Zone pro azure)
I use the 14's when my 15's is too strong at the back leaving solid 9's. I have scored 290's and high 7's with them.
All my balls have magic carpets. If I feel that I'm squeezing the ball,I'll first use some rosin on the thumb hole. If still squeezing, I'll put in another white tape or move the tape higher or lower.
At our age bowling without discomfort is of prime importance.
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baiki
"Faulty mechanics makes all balls bad." Bill Hall, BTM Dec. '98
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 31, 2004, 03:41:40 PM
I would have averaged 160-170 with my 15# based on past experience over the past 18 months or so in this house on these conditions. That wasn't great bowling, but when a person that has always had a 190 something average for the past 15-18 years like myself, until 15-18 months ago and then drop down to the 168-180 range, I felt good about it. My accuracy was very much improved, I had way-way more revs, and had way more strikes. I kicked out a lot of 10 pins with this 14# ball today that would have stood straight up with my 15# balls.
I can't wait to get my Impulse Zone next week to see what it will do. I want to thank all of you people that responded to this post. again many thanks to all of you.
Edited on 12/31/2004 4:41 PM
Post by: Old Coach on January 01, 2005, 09:36:35 AM