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Author Topic: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues  (Read 5632 times)

Reality Check

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2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« on: July 25, 2007, 10:44:15 PM »
Just an interesting little query for everyone,

In the handicap trios league I bowl in, one of the bowlers was having a tough night scoring wise, and started double handed palming the ball. He still did not score much, and scored slightly worse in one game. The accusations came up that night that this was no different to sandbagging, that he should have a seperate average for double handed palming the ball (much like if you were right handed and decided to bowl left handed I believe) and that it was not acceptable to change to this style of bowling mid game, amongst other things.


I just wondered what everyones take on this would be? Should someone bowling double handed have a seperate average? Should they declare before they bowl how they are going to bowl? COuld a sandbagging charge be levelled at the bowler? Just interested to see what opinions are out there  .
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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.
Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

 

dizzyfugu

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2007, 06:58:09 AM »
Interesting topic. I'd rather go with a sandbagging charge, regardless of the 2-handed style. You may throw the ball however you like, but if the session's results are the base for the handicap (or even for next session's handycap) and the player intentionally played below par - even just out of frustration - I'd fine him. If this is a serious league, his act has been disrespectful against the other players. Call it silly or immature, but he is not playing on his won.

Anyway, regarding averages from different styles, I'd think this would make sense if there are great differences between the styles. I'd inhibit switching in this case, since the sandbagging danger (see above) is too big. A different approach would be to ask players who enlist to define the style they are using before entering league?
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spinner031

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2007, 07:31:35 AM »
I say just finish out the game.  If you want to be that kind of *donkey* at least just play it out.  Boo hoo, you're doing bad.  Wow.  Yeah, I'd go with the sandbagging.

MaidenheadBandit

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2007, 07:34:12 AM »
qoute
''He still did not score much, and scored slightly worse in one game''

Reality check,

Are you saying he should have scored higher than his average in that game, do you score higher than your average in every game, know.
So what is the problem.

He had a tricky pattern/match up and was trying to improvise, that sounds like positive thinking, if it does not work who cares, he had a go.

Have you changed hand positions, ball types in the past and they have not worked
do people accuse you of sandbagging for these changes, the answer is no.

Everyone has the right to improvise on a condition if the cannot control it with their normal game or style. (right to left is  a differant story)

Cheers
MB
(No thumb flinger, thumb in sparer)
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Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.....
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Martin710

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 07:36:53 AM »
I don't know if it's true but I heard that you must use all holes in the ball except for the extra hole of course. So it's OK to bowl thumbless provided you have no thumb hole in your ball. According to my information, it would be illegal to bowl two-handed if you don't stick your fingers in the finger holes. In that case, you would have to bowl with an undrilled ball.   I would like somebody to confirm or contredict this as I could not find the USBC rule.

Dan Belcher

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2007, 07:43:04 AM »
http://www.bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=13035&f=1

"While a change was made several years ago to require gripping holes to be covered during a delivery, the current application would still allow a two-handed player to drill a set of finger holes for each hand on opposite sides of the ball. This allows a player to insert fingers from both hands to assist in maintaining the grip and imparting force on the ball.  

USBC has modified its application of the specification to now require a player to be able to demonstrate that he/she can use all of the gripping holes with one hand at the same time. The player is not required to use all the holes in any specific delivery, but they must be able to demonstrate that each hole can reasonably be used for gripping purposes."


You have to cover the holes with your hands during delivery, but you can have a ball with a thumbhole and throw it thumbless two-handed.

MaidenheadBandit

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2007, 07:46:55 AM »
PS

Reality check,
Just out of interest what was he scoring and did it affect the result, if he was bowling worse the opposition would have won, if better thay would have lost.

Has it affected your team standing or pride as he could modify his approach to bowling.

When I had to turn to NO THUMB due to injury all I got and still somtimes get are adverse comments to my style.

Let him get on whith it and enjoy his success or failure.

Have fun bowling, variety in life is a human pleasure.



--------------------
--------------------------------------
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.....
Beer for the man, white wine fruit based drink for the lady.
Lane 1 for the man, storm fruit smelling ball for the lady.....
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.....
Beer for the man, white wine fruit based drink for the lady.
Seismic for the man, storm fruit smelling ball for the lady.....
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')

MaidenheadBandit

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2007, 07:53:38 AM »
Martin710,
the thumb hole has to be in the palm no away from the palm, this subjest has been covered before many times.

--------------------
--------------------------------------
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.....
Beer for the man, white wine fruit based drink for the lady.
Lane 1 for the man, storm fruit smelling ball for the lady.....
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')
Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.....
Beer for the man, white wine fruit based drink for the lady.
Seismic for the man, storm fruit smelling ball for the lady.....
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')

Martin710

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2007, 07:58:14 AM »
Hi Dan Belcher, thanks a lot for the clarification.

Zanatos1914

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2007, 08:18:18 AM »
I am lost of this thread. You want this bowler to have 2 book avgs because he changed styles... If you started league right handed you can throw the ball anyway right handed you want and etc..  If you start bowling on the left side of your body then you should be made to have a separate avg..  

Another example - If you are right handed and decided to throw a backup ball that is legal...

I really don't believe this bowler was trying to throw off because it takes allot of energy using that style of bowling..  I believe he just had an off night.

ThongPrincess

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2007, 08:25:40 AM »
The talk I have heard is even 2 handed bowlers have a dominate hand and usually it is the hand they would bowl with if one hand delivery.  If this is the case, then there is no problem.  In other words, a right handed bowler bowling two handed mainly uses the right hand, the left hand is more of an assist.

As far as sandbagging, he went to two handed out of "frustration".  It sounds to me like he felt he could not score with a normal delivery and was trying something else.  Sandbagging is the "intentional" bowling below your ability.  Somehow frustration and sandbagging don't go together, in my humble opinion.
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Reality Check

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2007, 08:45:56 AM »


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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

Edited on 7/26/2007 12:03 PM
Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

Nicanor

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2007, 08:57:17 AM »
I was always interested in this conversation.  How many of us bowlers do not use two hands to bowl?  I know of few.  We put our fingers and thumb (maybe not the thumb)in the ball and use the off hand to support the weight of the ball through varying positions of our push away and arm swing.  Just because a bowler uses his off hand to hold on to the ball longer then we do constitutes a different delivery and should either not be legal or should require different rules?


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Zanatos1914

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2007, 09:23:08 AM »
What am I missing in this thread.. The rule book clears states this is legal..  Is this conversation really about sad bagging instead of the 2 handed delivery.. That rule is clear in the US...  Whats the problem

chitown

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Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2007, 09:30:55 AM »
I don't see anything wrong with someone changing to a no thumb type of release half way thru a game.  What's the big deal?  

The name of the game is knocking down the most pins.  You cares if it's left handed, right handed, two handed or no thumb.

The next thing you know people will complain about a bowler going from a 45 degree release to a 75 degree release.  I know a bowler that only uses a "no thumb" type of release when he plays deep inside lines.  


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Edited on 7/26/2007 9:37 AM