Author Topic: 2 handers (Read 3987 times)

that guy · « **on:** November 24, 2008, 07:31:14 AM »

Why is the USBC magazine always pushing these 2 hand bowlers down our throat? Number of 2 handers to win a pba title....... 0. Number of 2 handers to ever make a living on the pba tour........0. In a time when most pro bowlers r finding ways to b softer and hook it less(Mike Machuga, Mike wolf to name a few) Why would so many feel that this style of bowling is viable or even practical. The last thing I want in my game is more speed and more revs. If it were 1985 in the days of lt 48s and rhinos maybe the 2 handed style would dominate.... but not in 2008 with these super balls. What do u guys think?

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2008, 03:50:26 PM »

I agree. It is something that is new and shows that the sport continues to evolve. One though. You can't always use the PBA as a basis for what is good or bad in our sport. Jason Belmonte may have made more money worldwide over the past few years than most of the guys in the PBA. If you go to the events in which have much larger fields (US Open), there are several 2 handers there trying to make it. Osku made tv a few years ago at the US Open. The reason you may not see more making it to the PBA is simply because it is still relatively new. Cassidy Shaub was on Team USA this year who is a 2 hander and throws it extremely well. I think it is still a waiting game to see how much this continues to evolve.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Easy10pins · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2008, 03:50:32 PM »

Jason Belmonte has been pretty successful, (not on the PBA tour).
--------------------
The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF

Kid Jete · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2008, 03:51:20 PM »

quote:
Why is the USBC magazine always pushing these 2 hand bowlers down our throat? Number of 2 handers to win a pba title....... 0. Number of 2 handers to ever make a living on the pba tour........0. In a time when most pro bowlers r finding ways to b softer and hook it less(Mike Machuga, Mike wolf to name a few) Why would so many feel that this style of bowling is viable or even practical. The last thing I want in my game is more speed and more revs. If it were 1985 in the days of lt 48s and rhinos maybe the 2 handed style would dominate.... but not in 2008 with these super balls. What do u guys think?

In all honesty comparing titles won on the PBA by one and two handers isn't valid. One handed bowling has been the norm for decades. Two handed bowling isn't even common place yet and is a fairly new concept. Most GOOD two handed bowlers in the US won't be seen for another 5-6 maybe even 10 years if it catches on because they will be the kids that are in their teenage years now.

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2008, 05:33:02 PM »

quote:
Why is the USBC magazine always pushing these 2 hand bowlers down our throat? ...

Because it's different. No other reason.

As for its efficacy, fine for young people, but check with their orthopedist and/or their chiropractor in 10, 15 or 20 years.

With today's bowling balls, you don't need extra revs or ball speed. You just need some consistency and some basic coaching lessons and small bit of athletic skills and ability. And you always need intense psychological focus.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JD74 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2008, 06:17:22 PM »

quote:
I agree. It is something that is new and shows that the sport continues to evolve. One though. You can't always use the PBA as a basis for what is good or bad in our sport. Jason Belmonte may have made more money worldwide over the past few years than most of the guys in the PBA. If you go to the events in which have much larger fields (US Open), there are several 2 handers there trying to make it. Osku made tv a few years ago at the US Open. The reason you may not see more making it to the PBA is simply because it is still relatively new. Cassidy Shaub was on Team USA this year who is a 2 hander and throws it extremely well. I think it is still a waiting game to see how much this continues to evolve.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

I totally agree with this, Jason and Osku would definately have PBA titles if they bowled over here, Jason has only bowled a few PBA tournaments (all Majors I might add) and has cashed or made match play in every single one he was in. Osku came to 2 US Open's and made the TV show in one. Who else can say they bowled 2 PBA tournaments ever and made the show in one?, and who else can say there cash rate in Majors is 100%? not many people thats for sure, yes its early, but we will see over the next 2 weeks how Belmo does here. In Europe these guys are more dominant than WRW and Norm as a tandem, one or the other of these guys are in the finals almost every tournament when they bowl them. I am also a two hander so Im a little biased, but Im 17 and average 223 book with 5 300's and an 800, so theres going to be a lot of us coming up in a couple years, I wouldnt really worry about how long it lasts yet, if you stay healthy and athletic over the years we'll be fine, or we could always just go and dump the ball on the lane with one hand like all the strokers and do things the easy way, straight up 10 Baby!

--------------------
Lefty
480 rpms
300
800(1)
Average 220+

http://ebonite.com/
BOWL TO WIN!

JoshY · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2008, 07:00:46 PM »

Two handers will become more popular when you see some wins on the tour and someone starts teaching how to bowl 2 handed correctly.

Coaches still don't know how to teach the correct mechanics to kids trying to learn it.

In fact I find that they discourage it. In our junior league we have some kids that throw two handed but cannot control it and there is noone to teach them.

I have been messing with it myself but I find it is easier to throw 2 handed on softer conditions. If its a flood,long,or reverse block it can hurt more than it helps at least for me.

I still bowl with one hand and don't plan to change but it never hurts to try.

Back to back bowlers of the year (osku - belmonte) is nothing to sniff at.
But I do believe that they are on different conditions and different formats on the euro tour than PBA. I could be wrong and if I am please someone correct me.

janderson · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2008, 07:47:51 AM »

quote:
In Europe these guys are more dominant than WRW and Norm as a tandem

Ah, but by your own logic - Belmonte would be more successful if he bowled in the PBA more often - WRW and Norm would be more successful if they bowled in Europe more often.

Either way, it's a valid point. Until bowlers go head-to-head often enough, anything could happen if they did.

Charlest makes a point often ignored - at the higher levels of bowling, the physical game - 1-handed, 2-handed, no-thumb, whatever - becomes much less of a differentiating factor than the mental game.

that guy: 2-handed bowlers can also hook the ball less and be softer with the release.
--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2008, 07:54:41 AM »

I am of the opinion that 99.9% of the bowlers in the world are NOT going on the PBA tour!

I am of the opinion that 99% of the bowlers on this site are NOT going on the PBA tour.

I am of the opinion that 95% of the bowlers on this site spend 75% of their time on THS conditions.

Almost all would raise their average on a top hat by switching to two hand in a very brief time. Only those in the consistent 220 range would probably find the conversion difficult to advance on a THS. My opinion.

Everyone I know who has tried it thinks it is "EASY" and would be easy to score high and higher! Even medium aged guys like myself!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

JD74 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2008, 09:40:27 AM »

If you guys really think its so bad or that Walter Ray can beat Belmo and Osku consistantly, then look in the magazine and read WRW jr's caption where he says he has been practicing 2 handed for months to try and get good at it so he can use it when he cant make the ball turn and that he is going to start using it in tournaments, when someone that great is trying it tell me it's not a thing of the future, and also being almost 50 and able to do it it seems like it could last for the latter years.

As for it being "easy", lets see you be able to play 25-10 with it, then move on the same condition and play down 5 with it and change wrist position with the ball hand and change hand position with the top had to get the tilt to change and be able to come behind it more and play straighter, for us that are good at it there are a lot more hand changes that we can make than a 1 handed bowler to change ball reaction, because remember when we put the hand on top of the ball a little more to the right than the last shot or a little more to the left or to the front etc. it will change the tilt and reaction of the ball, then we also can change wrist position with the normal hand like 1 handers also, so we can change the ball reaction a ton by doing minor things. The good 2 handers know how to use these changes to be able to play any part of the lane on any condition, takes a lot of practice and a lot of time, the big hook part of it comes "easy", its controlling it and becoming extremely versatile thats the hard part about it.
--------------------
Lefty
480 rpms
300
800(1)
Average 220+

http://ebonite.com/
BOWL TO WIN!

Bill Thomas · « **Reply #10 on:** November 25, 2008, 12:20:08 PM »

IMO opinion its a fad just like no thumb. Speaking of no thumb I watched a young man, maybe 11-12, being coached by his father bowling no thumb this week in my grandson's youth league. The no thumber had a lot of revs but had no idea where the ball was going and was good for a gutter ball about every 3-4 frames. I have a feeling that this young man will end up giving up bowling because it is obvious he is becoming frustrated but keeps on no thumbing.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2008, 12:38:24 PM »

There is no hard part to it....if one can start doing it and increase their average in less than a month if they are already 190 or plus.

It is all good about two handing in my opinion. I'm not even doing it! Just watching it and trying it here and there!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS had a friend go out and shoot over 700 in one of his first sets trying it! He was pretty good one handed also!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Teej7753 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2008, 02:15:35 AM »

I totally Agree hands down, I mean throwing 2 handed is for people who can't use their thumb and expect their revs to make up for their inaccuracy, people like Jason Belmonte are fun to watch but i have also seen him throw with his thumb, he has perfected the 2 hand but started out just like the rest of us, I'm sick of people saying that you need to try it you get more power and revs.....true but you loose you accuracy...any ways I am sick of reading about them as well give it to young kids or some one who deserves the spot light
--------------------
Not into Bad Weather....

APheLion · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2008, 02:41:26 AM »

as i said in the other post, its just something new

low and natural vs muscle and high backswing?
stroking vs cranking the ball?
square at the line vs dropping the shoulder?
pocket vs brooklyn?

when money and title is down, whoever knocks down the pins wins.
--------------------
When a house bowler misses the mark, misses the break point and strike, for many ppl its called a wallshot. When a pro does that its call adjustment

When a house bowler gets his finger stuck in the ball and fall on the lanes, for many ppl its called lame bowler. When a pro does that its called the Machuga flop! ha i like this one.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2008, 03:36:06 PM »

I have to disagree with one thing teej said and that being 2 handed bowling are for people who can't use a thumb (maybe I am misunderstanding what he means). I used a thumb for 12 years and booked 219 for an entire year before I switched. I have had more than one person say that they saw Osku at the Masters throw it one handed and was just as equally impressive with his thumb one handed as he is two handed. The reason I made the switch was simply because back then, we did not have the "help" of stronger bowling balls. You had to tag on it to hook it. I was pretty one dimensional. I have a 300 rev rate one handed with my thumb in the ball. Back before I made the change, if you gave me the track area, I was locked in. As soon as I had to move left, I simply did not have enough on the ball and would leave flat 10s all night and maybe the occasional pocket 8-10.

The 2 handed method is simply for people who are fascinated by power and pins flying around who may not have the strength to create the rev rate one handed. It is way easier to tone down rev rate for a cranker than it is a amp up the rev rate for a stroker.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Author Topic: 2 handers (Read 3987 times)

that guy

2 handers

TWOHAND834

Re: 2 handers

Easy10pins

Re: 2 handers

Kid Jete

Re: 2 handers

charlest

Re: 2 handers

JD74

Re: 2 handers

JoshY

Re: 2 handers

janderson

Re: 2 handers

LuckyLefty

Re: 2 handers

JD74

Re: 2 handers

Bill Thomas

Re: 2 handers

LuckyLefty

Re: 2 handers

Teej7753

Re: 2 handers

APheLion

Re: 2 handers

TWOHAND834

Re: 2 handers