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Author Topic: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .  (Read 8502 times)

Gizmo823

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2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« on: August 12, 2014, 08:28:37 AM »
Something I'm noticing already about the girls in the WYC . . there are several average to higher rev rates and some good looking form from the overseas girls, largely without wrist braces, and the ones that are wearing them are just wearing wristers and plain gloves.  I'm sure I'm not the only one that absolutely hates every coach in the country going straight for a mechanical arm to put on a girl, and the vast majority of the professional women in the country wearing them.  They will teach not to muscle the ball while at the same time putting robotic arms on them that all but make them muscle it.  Women could get higher rev rates with less effort if they took the damn things off.  I understand women have weaker wrists and some need support, but the strength of your wrist shouldn't matter much if you're throwing the ball the right way.  Look at guys like Mike Fagan, Wes Malott and even Tommy Jones.  You think those guys are manhandling it?  Tommy gets an absolute handful at the bottom, but that ball just floats in his backswing and the snap at the bottom is like a whip.  It's motion, not muscle.  It just seems to me like the girls in this country are taught like they're all small and weak.  "Well you're a girl so you're just going to have to do this."  Ah, there's a good rant, haven't had one of those in a while.  Carry on. 
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milorafferty

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2014, 10:26:32 AM »
Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.

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Gizmo823

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2014, 10:48:37 AM »
I get your point Milo, but I try not to be like that . . if I'm like that, I'm just a cookie cutter in a different direction.  I'm a firm believer in the single idea that there's a lot of ways to skin a cat.  I have one theory, and that's to consider everything.  Whatever's best for the bowler is what needs to happen.  I'm not against wrist braces at all, I'm against the idea that every girl/woman needs one . .
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milorafferty

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2014, 11:12:01 AM »
I get your point Milo, but I try not to be like that . . if I'm like that, I'm just a cookie cutter in a different direction.  I'm a firm believer in the single idea that there's a lot of ways to skin a cat.  I have one theory, and that's to consider everything.  Whatever's best for the bowler is what needs to happen.  I'm not against wrist braces at all, I'm against the idea that every girl/woman needs one . .

Now I can agree with that Giz.

I work with new bowlers now and then as well. While I don't consider myself a coach, I do find that the "robo-arm" is a great teaching tool for good feel. Once they learn a proper release, then it's up to them whether to continue to use it or not.

There are legitimate uses for a lot of bowlers. The best female bowler I know personally, uses one at times. She bowls in the local high level scratch leagues, as was a runner up for Collegiate Bowler of the Year in 2009-2010. Not to mention some of the top level female bowlers use them.

But maybe because some local house hack gets his a$$ handed to him on a regular basis by a 70 year old using a "robo-arm" in his Friday Fluffers league, it must be a crutch.  ;D
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ccrider

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2014, 11:32:37 AM »
This pretty much nails it for my son. The brace helps him to stay behind the ball, and without it, he tends to spin it, working the side of the ball. He is not a small kid, and is strong for his age, just has  not developed the wrist strength necessary to stay behind it throughout his swing. We intend to start working, slowly, on him developing his release without the brace and to use the brace when necessary, to give him the correct feel as far as hand position is concerned.

I use a brace and can tell you that you do not cup and release your wrist when you are wearing a Robby's Rev- the brace will not allow it.
You can't compare the way the top professionals break their wrists with kids.  The difference being the professionals are strong enough to use that type of wrist position and still get their hand behind and underneath the ball and get the ball tucked in to have leverage.  Kids let their wrist break down and their hand is on the top outside of the ball with no leverage and it spins like a top.

itsallaboutme

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2014, 12:25:11 PM »
He is strong for his age but doesn't have the wrist strength.

Thank you for being the perfect example of the parent I am describing.

ccrider

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2014, 12:31:13 PM »
He is strong for his age but doesn't have the wrist strength.

Thank you for being the perfect example of the parent I am describing.
He is strong for his age but doesn't have the wrist strength.

Thank you for being the perfect example of the parent I am describing.

USBC Bronze level coach says 14 is too light for him and that he should use the brace until he develops his release.

He is 5'9' 180lb and bench presses 190+.  What's your point?

itsallaboutme

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2014, 12:50:37 PM »
He needs a better coach if he can bench 190 but can't handle a 15 pound bowling ball. 

My point is he didn't develop good technique before going up in weight, as I previously stated.  Now he needs a brace because he has bad fundamentals, not because he is weak.

ccrider

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2014, 12:58:30 PM »
He needs a better coach if he can bench 190 but can't handle a 15 pound bowling ball. 

My point is he didn't develop good technique before going up in weight, as I previously stated.  Now he needs a brace because he has bad fundamentals, not because he is weak.

You are too quick to make assumptions. He has not developed any habits. He bowls infrequently and has not put in the time necessary to develop a solid release. His interest are more focused on basketball and girls than bowling.

Being able to bench press weight does not translate into having a strong wrist.

trash heap

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2014, 04:40:14 PM »
So the question is to those who state it as a crutch:

How much money have you lost to those of us who use a robotic arm?

It must of been alot!

I get it, too much pain bringing up those memories! :P
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trash heap

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2014, 04:59:10 PM »
I get your point Milo, but I try not to be like that . . if I'm like that, I'm just a cookie cutter in a different direction.  I'm a firm believer in the single idea that there's a lot of ways to skin a cat.  I have one theory, and that's to consider everything.  Whatever's best for the bowler is what needs to happen.  I'm not against wrist braces at all, I'm against the idea that every girl/woman needs one . .

It take's time to change.  We have read this in many articles and seen it with our own eyes. Changing someone's bowling style does not happen overnight. In case you haven't noticed, there is big shortage of bowling coaches out there. Most kids learn on their own or worse yet from their parents.

When a kid has bad habits and you have little time, what are you going to do as a coach on a team?

By the time the kid has a solid the bowling release (by your standards), she will be working on her masters degree or will be well established in her career.

I see the opposite. I am actually seeing a trend where kids are staying away from them. Just like your original post, we are seeing young women not using wrist supports and they throw an awesome ball.

Most kids at my local center don't want to wear one.

My only comment to add, don't look down on those that use a wrist device. I will never understand why some have so much of an issue with it.
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northface28

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2014, 09:37:15 PM »
I get your point Milo, but I try not to be like that . . if I'm like that, I'm just a cookie cutter in a different direction.  I'm a firm believer in the single idea that there's a lot of ways to skin a cat.  I have one theory, and that's to consider everything.  Whatever's best for the bowler is what needs to happen.  I'm not against wrist braces at all, I'm against the idea that every girl/woman needs one . .

It take's time to change.  We have read this in many articles and seen it with our own eyes. Changing someone's bowling style does not happen overnight. In case you haven't noticed, there is big shortage of bowling coaches out there. Most kids learn on their own or worse yet from their parents.

When a kid has bad habits and you have little time, what are you going to do as a coach on a team?

By the time the kid has a solid the bowling release (by your standards), she will be working on her masters degree or will be well established in her career.

I see the opposite. I am actually seeing a trend where kids are staying away from them. Just like your original post, we are seeing young women not using wrist supports and they throw an awesome ball.

Most kids at my local center don't want to wear one.

My only comment to add, don't look down on those that use a wrist device. I will never understand why some have so much of an issue with it.

Why do you think the local kids at your center don't want to wear one? Even at a young age its viewed as a crutch or "weakness", you want to see a youth bowler (at least in the Chicagoland area) get their wrist in a strong position? Tell them you're going to grab one of those dorky robo-arms.

Other than women, I can't think of any successful players in this area that wear one of those contraptions (Hold for one senior sandbagger in the area with the initials RH that wears a mongoose). So to answer your passive aggressive dig, I have lost very little, if any, money to Robo-Arms. As a matter of fact, there is a young player in the area that was a relative unknown that burst onto the scene, once he started to get more exposure and do well at certain events word got out he wore one these Robo-arms. Immediately dismissed, no matter he does, or wins, he will be knocked down a peg for wearing one of those.

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ccrider

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2014, 01:30:41 PM »
You guys are funny. The lefty on tour that has won a lot of money wearing one of those dorky robo arms. Do you think people care about whether its cool or not. Do you think it is relevant whether it is cool or not?

The question is whether it aids the peroson's game or is necessary. If it does or is necessary, then who cares about how cool it looks.

trash heap

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2014, 03:55:01 PM »
You guys are funny. The lefty on tour that has won a lot of money wearing one of those dorky robo arms. Do you think people care about whether its cool or not. Do you think it is relevant whether it is cool or not?

The question is whether it aids the peroson's game or is necessary. If it does or is necessary, then who cares about how cool it looks.

Exactly.
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milorafferty

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2014, 04:04:16 PM »
As a matter of fact, there is a young player in the area that was a relative unknown that burst onto the scene, once he started to get more exposure and do well at certain events word got out he wore one these Robo-arms. Immediately dismissed, no matter he does, or wins, he will be knocked down a peg for wearing one of those.


Yea, and I bet he really cares what your opinion is when he has your money in his pocket. :o
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northface28

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Re: 2014 World Youth Champs, Girls . .
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2014, 06:52:05 PM »
You guys are funny. The lefty on tour that has won a lot of money wearing one of those dorky robo arms. Do you think people care about whether its cool or not. Do you think it is relevant whether it is cool or not?

The question is whether it aids the peroson's game or is necessary. If it does or is necessary, then who cares about how cool it looks.

Stop, Mike Scroggins hasnt been relevant on tour in quite some time.

As a matter of fact, there is a young player in the area that was a relative unknown that burst onto the scene, once he started to get more exposure and do well at certain events word got out he wore one these Robo-arms. Immediately dismissed, no matter he does, or wins, he will be knocked down a peg for wearing one of those.


Yea, and I bet he really cares what your opinion is when he has your money in his pocket. :o

Ive only faced him in team events, be it baker games or or 4 man team tournament formats. My money was not in is pocket, I know you have a chub in your shorts for Robo-Arms, but relax. Fact is, going up the lane, he one of the best in the area, most people wont beat him out there. Luckily he is right handed, so anything left of 15 his Robo-Arm wont allow to carry and he flat tens, a lot. I can give you his name  and you can look how well he has done (or hasnt done in regionals). So simply put, he doesnt "have my money in his pocket". You wil have to find someone else to live vicariously through and masturbate to that person. You cant create angle with those things on. Period. Now I know you wear you one, and youll have a rebuttal saying "I create angle with my Pro-release, with the extremely musty, soft felt lining underneath". No you dont, the built in friction on your house pattern does.
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