win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification  (Read 5122 times)

cory867

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« on: February 25, 2016, 02:39:53 PM »
What does everyone think of the news out today?
http://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622326041

I think it is a good move myself.  I still don't like the 3rd division however.
- Cory

 

Mykenk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 02:57:17 PM »
You don't need this change without the third division, though.

luv2C10falll

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 06:19:25 PM »
Why the dislike for the third division  ?

Pinbuster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4585
  • Former proshop worker
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 07:27:37 PM »
The biggest issue I saw with it is, that you have to have your team rosters set 14 days in advance.

We have had several times the past 10 years where we had to get subs for doubles/singles.

Phoneman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1433
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2016, 06:39:28 AM »
You will still be able to get subs.  They can do verification's at the window.  They just want to try and speed the process up.  If everyone waited till the last minute no squad would start on time. 

I think it is a good change to try and bring some integrity back to the event.  There have been too many guys that control their average just to get in classified division then shoot big numbers.  It will move all those that have done that up so they will only be able to get away with it for 1 year.  It wont stop some guys from still doing it but the additional level will add some incentive for the middle average guys to go.  With the 2017 event in Vegas and the new levels I am willing to bet this may be the largest turnout in many years.  All those guys that gave it up because they average too high for classified and too low to compete with the high average guys now have a reason to go.  Look for between 18000 and 19000 teams in 2017.  Better get you times set as soon as they allow you too.

spmcgivern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2079
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2016, 07:28:33 AM »
You will still be able to get subs.  They can do verification's at the window.  They just want to try and speed the process up.  If everyone waited till the last minute no squad would start on time. 

I have only gone a couple of times, but I have never started on time as it is.  Even before internet.

dmonroe814

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 628
  • No Rewards or Punishments, Only Consequenses
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 09:01:05 AM »
I am going for my 12th time this year.  What it tells me is that I am not as good on the sport patterns as I should be.  I average between 172-179 on PBA experience, 181 on Nationals and that converts to 195-210.  I average 220, so I really need to work on my sport shot game.  I have never been in the booster division, and since it is all scratch, it has never affected me.
14lb 15.5 mph at pins 325 Revs. Silver Coach, Ball Driller. In Bag:  Storm Pro-Motion, Hyroad X, Matchup, Code Red.

Joe Cool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2016, 09:13:30 AM »
If they are going to use the last 3 years of Nationals play, that should be the only average if you have 27 games in.  What better way to establish how you perform at that level than to look at what you've done at that level?  You should only use a league average if you don't have 27 games in. 

I am a house hack for sure.  I don't have an opportunity to bowl on a sport shot where I live...it's not an option.  So I bowl 9 games on sport all year (and do really, really bad), but because I averaged over 210 on a house shot once in the last 3 years (last year), I get to bowl against the pros that bowl on sport shots all the time.  Seems fair.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 09:15:39 AM by Joe Cool »
Hit the pocket and hope for the best

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11188
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2016, 09:34:10 AM »
If they are going to use the last 3 years of Nationals play, that should be the only average if you have 27 games in.  What better way to establish how you perform at that level than to look at what you've done at that level?  You should only use a league average if you don't have 27 games in. 

I am a house hack for sure.  I don't have an opportunity to bowl on a sport shot where I live...it's not an option.  So I bowl 9 games on sport all year (and do really, really bad), but because I averaged over 210 on a house shot once in the last 3 years (last year), I get to bowl against the pros that bowl on sport shots all the time.  Seems fair.

Agreed, I think they would have a better idea of the bowlers skill level using the composite from their own tournament. If they are going to let more of the pros into the tournament, give us house hacks more of a chance against a similar skill level to ours instead of us donating.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2779
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 09:51:24 AM »
Might as well go to a handicap format.  Entries will be up in 2017 because of the brand new venue in Vegas, and USBC will credit the changes in classifications.  Trend in entries will be back down the next season.

If you are going to make the change just have a handicap and a scratch division.     

Bowl_Freak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2016, 09:59:03 AM »
What the USBC needs to do is use a composite USBC Nationals avg. 3yr (21-27gm) min participation in the tourney and go from there. If you have that many games, you use that avg. If you dont, you use your sanctioned avg and convert to the sport avg. I believe that would be fair.

Cornfed82

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2016, 10:30:50 AM »
Just went to bowl.com to check out my averages from the past 3 yrs... League averages (composite avg: 224,220,212) which comes out to a 3 yr avg of 218.6... Now they have a tab that shows your scratch average for your most recent 27 games at Nationals  which spans from (2008-2015) my scratch average is (188) and my sport adjusted avg is (214)... Looks as if I get to stay in the Open division

I think everyone should check it out...take all the guess work out it
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 10:33:42 AM by Cornfed82 »

Bowl_Freak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1216
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2016, 12:41:31 PM »
Yea i did the same and did a spreadsheet on my participation, scores, money won vs money spent, total pins, avg, etc. So now when i go i can have a number to go in with.

txbowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2016, 12:55:27 PM »
If you review the prize list for the classified division for the past several years, you will find some similar names in the top 100 every year.  How is it that they can goto Nationals on some of the toughest sport patterns and average 190-210 but on a THS they ALWAYS manage to be 179 or under? 

This rule addresses that issue.

Also, if you were on Facebook when Jeff Richgels (Riggs) posted about the 3rd division when it was announced, there were several bowlers who said, they would sandbag for a year to get a 209 average so they could enter the new division and dominate brackets and get a good check.

This rule addresses that as well.  Unless you are willing to sandbag at league and at nationals for 3 straight years, you are going to bowl in the correct division for your average.  And since it wasn't announced until now, it cannot happen in Vegas.  If any average over the last 3 years or your sport adjusted average from Nationals is 210 or higher, you are going to Division 1.

No one is going to be able to sangbag into a lower division for 3 years.

The "true" middle division bowlers will actually be the ones that deserve to be there.

DrBob806

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: 2017 Open Championships Average Verification
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2016, 01:01:11 PM »
I am going for my 12th time this year.  What it tells me is that I am not as good on the sport patterns as I should be.  I average between 172-179 on PBA experience, 181 on Nationals and that converts to 195-210.  I average 220, so I really need to work on my sport shot game.  I have never been in the booster division, and since it is all scratch, it has never affected me.

You're not alone as far as being as good as you should be on the sport patterns. I've had success at the Open Championships, but also far too many 160 game (or less) disasters as well.

This sport adjustment is telling me I'm either under performing at National, or my flaws in league are being hidden. Probably a bit of both.