Author Topic: 300 survey (Read 5090 times)

kendog · « **on:** March 09, 2004, 09:17:27 PM »

Someone recently told me that 300 games were as rare as perfect games pitched in baseball. I'm curious if that is really true.

I'd bowled for 10 yrs I guess before I got my first this season. I ave. 203 this year.

How many bowlers with a similar ave and career length have not had one yet? I guess what I want to know is it really that rare, even today with all our high powered equipment? I know guys who are not very good at all fundamentally that have perfect games and carry inflated aves on the easy house shot.
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kendog

avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes

Edited on 3/10/2004 1:18 PM

s1nger1 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 11, 2004, 01:35:39 PM »

Have been bowling 12 years no 300's. I have had the chance every so often. I either screw it up are leave a pin sonewhere on a pocket shot. I know I can do it I have thrown 18 in a row twice this year. I have averages between 194-220 over the last 10 years.

bennett · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2004, 02:04:25 PM »

I had 300(5x), 299(2x), 298, 297, 295, 290 in non-sanction play before I bowled my first sanctioned 300 this year.

What is worse is that I must of had 270+ 200 times (I'm estimating at least this much as there were times I shot 4 and 5 270+ games in 1 week) in my life (sanctioned and non-sanction play) before I finally bowled a sanctioned 300. I would always get a tap or two somewhere in the game to prevent me from hitting that sanctioned 300.

My high average so far this year is 223, series 785 sanctioned.

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I want to have a 220+ average like everybody else around here, so give me fresh oil.

cpo_bee · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2004, 02:13:16 PM »

I have been bowling for 39 years (since the age of six). Average 203 in a house where the highest average is 212. I have NO sanctioned 300s. I have a 290 and have had too many 279's to count. This year I have had a 279 - 9 pin, 276 - bucket, and 2 268's.

perfecone · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2004, 03:17:28 PM »

great topic.....I have been a 200 bowler for almost 20 years. started bowling about 1975, first 300 was in 1988, then 2 more in 4 years.....and nothing since....I think I have crossed over the hill...literally. barely a sniff in to years, but still good averages overall. plenty of 240+ gMES JUST NO LONG STRINGS FROM THE 1ST FRAME. I started thinking that my 300 ship has sailed, and I ve accepted it although I would really like one of the new 300 rings, that have the 300 on the top, they didnt offer that last time I got one. I also have never had an 800, 780's twice. 800 is defeinatly much harder and way more rare......my 2 cents
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any day bowling is a good day

stikes can win the game but spares can win the tournament

joegunn · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2004, 08:23:52 PM »

According to the ABC stats, there were 1,635,316 ABC Members in 2002-2003. Assuming every member bowled only 3 games per week, and all leagues were 34 weeks, that's 166,802,232 games bowled. Of those games, there were 44,937 perfect games. Based on those stats, my measly 2 (one with urethane in 1997 and one with particle in 2000) don't sound so bad.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2004, 09:51:24 AM »

Saw are YOU SURE Ben Hogan never had a hole in one?

I'm not!

Fred Couples only had two at one time awhile back but that was almost inconceivable due to his iron accuracy.

The statistic is that 300 games are rarer than perfect games in professional baseball is a poor analogy but maybe a correct statistic.

Why, simply because so many bowlers are virtually incapable of throwing one!
I can think of many leagues that I watch that no one in the league could ever throw one except by the fact that pure flukes DO happen.

Other leagues I watch a 300 is threatened every night. High scoring conditions and great bowlers make a 300 game not thrown just a matter of bad carry.

Last night I saw the highest series personally I've ever witnessed.
825, by a righty no less! His games 279, 279, 267. WOW. 300, 300, 267 would have been nice too. No 300s in house but several threatened obviously!

I believe the stats would be more accurately kept regarding scratch leagues and then 300 games would be listed as being much more frequent than perfect games in major league baseball, and maybe more frequent than just the ordinary ho hum no hitter. I wouldn't be surprised if there frequency would fall between no hitters and shut outs in the major leagues if we only looked at scratch leagues.

REgards,

Luckylefty

kendog · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2004, 10:09:42 AM »

It's not the actual total number being considered here, it's the ratio of perfect games over the total number of games bowled/pitched. I don't know how you could account for non-sanctioned games. You would have to include all recreational bowling then in your ratio. By the way, that would undoubtedly make the perfect game much MORE rare, because of the elevated number of total games included.
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kendog

avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2004, 10:18:58 AM »

Ken,

I understood perfectly how the statistic was calculated.

However we are comparing a very unskilled group(all bowlers), versus a highly skilled group(major league pitchers).

I believe by adding in all those millions of bowlers who can't average 170 or 180 one is not being fair to bowlers. In my mind I can conceive of a high % of major league starters as having the ability to throw a perfect game. I can conceive of an even higher % of + 200 bowlers who can throw 300(nearly all).

so

The statistic that I think would be a more equal comparison would be.

300 games in scratch leagues.......... perfect games in majors
....------------------------------ = ---------------------------
all games in scratch leagues.......... all games in majors

I don't believe they are that rare in high level leagues with a 10 to 10 pattern.

REgards,

Luckylefty

REgards,

Luckylefty

Edited on 3/12/2004 11:14 AM

Goof1073 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2004, 11:14:12 AM »

I you were going to totally compare the two I agree that you would have to add in little league, college, etc. baseball and yaba, women's bowling, etc. too. But looking at just ABC versus Professional Baseball you get this...

Taking JoeGunn's total of worst case numbers for games bowled (as these don't factor in people bowling multiple leagues, summer leagues, tournaments) then you would get a perfect 300 game every 3712 games bowled. You also have to consider that 300's weren't as easy over the years and bowling as a whole has dropped in number of participants.

Now Baseball on the other had has gone up in the number of teams over the years. But if you took the 30 current teams and their 162 regular season games and assumed that you had the same number of teams / games dating back to the 1876 when George Bradley had the first No-No. Then there were 273 no-no's recorded since then. So over the coarse of 128 years there would be a No-No every 2278th game pitched.

So if you compare a 300 game (which we all know can be lucky, etc.) to No-No's a 300 game is more rare.

But since there have only been around 18 perfect games in baseball...a perfect game is more rare than a 300 based on the assumptions listed above.

Edited on 3/12/2004 12:09 PM

kendog · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2004, 11:47:38 AM »

How about if you go the other way a bit? Compare only 300 games thrown by pros during professional tournament conditions to pro perfect games pitched in MLB.
That to me would be the only really decent comparison. Many scratch leagues are shot on easy house shots too, not just hacker leagues.
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kendog

avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes

stanski · « **Reply #26 on:** March 12, 2004, 11:35:19 PM »

i threw 4 no hitters and one perfect game in my hs baseball career so far. no 300 games even though im a better bowler then pitcher
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stanski

Edited on 3/13/2004 0:31 AM

Author Topic: 300 survey (Read 5090 times)

kendog

300 survey

s1nger1

Re: 300 survey

bennett

Re: 300 survey

cpo_bee

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perfecone

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joegunn

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LuckyLefty

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kendog

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LuckyLefty

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Goof1073

Re: 300 survey

kendog

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stanski

Re: 300 survey