Author Topic: Bigger core does mean more power (Read 7827 times)

Grayson · « **on:** March 29, 2008, 06:16:03 PM »

Some companies (at least I think so... right now I can recall only LM's Terminator and Lane#1 indirectly for the BB) say their bigger core designs generate more power.

True?

Well from a simple point of view I say yes.

Just see it this way:

the bowler plays the same speed and revs on two different balls:
one with a small core where most of the core material is concentrated in a small volume
one with a bigger core, where more material is on the "out" side of the ball

now what happens is this:
with same revs the ball with the bigger core needs more energy to get into rotation - meaning it gets more energy - as more material is brought into not only the forward motion by throwing but the rotational motion by revs;

the smaller core does not need so much energy to get the rotational motion as not so much matter has to be moved

you can make an experiment about this:
take two tin cans with exatcly the same size (diameter and volume)
fill both with water and freeze one of them (the trick is to keep the weight equal of both cans while getting one with a fluid and one with a solid material)

Now let both roll downhill and you will see that the one with the water will be faster... the one with the ice needs more energy to get moving as the oce has to be moved... the water not.
well so the one with the Ice should carry more energy when it arrives down there.

so simply said:
the bigger core has more energy (assuming the bowler plays both balls with same speed and rpms)

However how this "more" energy is depleted into the pins and hooking motion is another question.

Did I make a mistake with my idea?Discussion please
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Sebastian Koch
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Leftyhi-trak · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2008, 08:59:17 PM »

Please take into account that filler and core material can have multiple densities which affect many of chracteristics related to more/less "power". And if ball companies have stated numbers up to around 70% of ball reaction is related to surface shouldn't that be more pertinent to energy retention or loss?

nospareball · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2008, 09:48:26 PM »

quote:
you can make an experiment about this:
take two tin cans with exatcly the same size (diameter and volume)
fill both with water and freeze one of them (the trick is to keep the weight equal of both cans while getting one with a fluid and one with a solid material)

Now let both roll downhill and you will see that the one with the water will be faster... the one with the ice needs more energy to get moving as the oce has to be moved... the water not.
well so the one with the Ice should carry more energy when it arrives down there.

Have you ever tried to roll a drum of water, or other liquid? Hard as hell compared to a solid material.

Anyway, this isn't a very valid test. The water is going to constantly be changing shape depending on how much speed it picks up. The faster it rolls, the more the mass of the "core" will be towards the outer edge of the can. The ice on the other hand will hold its shape. In bowling terms it would be, Water = High RG (larger core), Ice = Lower RG (smaller core). Which one has more energy at the bottom? The water is definitely going to be harder to stop since it's going to have more rotational energy. But in relation to bowling ball cores, the higher RG piece is going to be harder to rev compared to a lower RG piece.

Core size can be deceiving as you can have a large core with a smaller RG value than a smaller cored ball because of density differences. So really it all boils down to numbers, RG, Diff, and MB.
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-Clint

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #18 on:** April 03, 2008, 03:22:15 AM »

Effectively, if physics still apply, core size should not matter. In the end, the RG numbers tell you how the internal weight of a ball with core and filler (even with multiple densities and pieces) is distributed. Size does not matter as long as you do not know the densities of the material.
A large core will distribute the weight towards the cover, potentially rising the RG with all its effects on reaction. If it uses dnese material, the filler will have to be less dense in order to keep the ball in weight limits and legal, so you shift the CG even further away from the center, rising the CG numbers by tendency.

IMHO, core size has no effect on ball reaction or power. It is rather the overall package of core pecs, surface prep and drilling plus the player's style that makes things work - or not. Putting a large core inside of a new ball might create some marketing buzz (also look at the LevRg core, compared to the Vanguard). But physics still apply and I cannot see any benefit (or lack thereof).
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Leonidas · « **Reply #19 on:** April 03, 2008, 07:01:14 AM »

Lets put it that way i cant see how a different sized core can change the including power IF ALL other specs are the same. In fact i can see that it will be very difficoult in our part of Galaxy.
I have a nice question for better understanding:
Lets imagine the biggest core you can build, lets say 99,9% off the ball volume. In my book it looks like my clear spare ball. How would you build a core that would lead to the same specs after drilling using... lets say just 44% of the ball volume?
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it's almost always the indian and not the arrow
yes and i like this one also
don't go for a strike, go for a sure spare, we need 5 pins to win

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2008, 07:14:07 AM »

You can shift densities and volume and balance them. I am pretty sure (not a methematic genius to prove it) that you could, for example, put a small high density nucleus in the ball middle, and surround it with a lower density material. If the respective volumes of the material are correct, you should potentially end up with the same core specs as before. That's why the RG numbers tell you more than just a look at the core shape.
--------------------
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Leonidas · « **Reply #21 on:** April 03, 2008, 07:23:29 AM »

That is the correct answer and that is why size doesn't matter.
--------------------
it's almost always the indian and not the arrow
yes and i like this one also
don't go for a strike, go for a sure spare, we need 5 pins to win

Timotheus · « **Reply #22 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:25:42 AM »

The power of a ball is based on the transfer its kinetic momentum from the ball to the pins, and momentum is calculated by taking the mass of the ball and multiplying it by the velocity of the ball at impact with the pins. Mass is determined generally by converting the weight of an object, however there is a way to calculate mass based on density (I forgot the formula though).

That being said, having a larger core does not automatically mean the ball will have more momentum and likewise for a smaller core not having less momentum. If the cores are made of the same material then the larger core will generate more momentum. If the cores are different materials then the smaller core could actually generate more momentum if it is of a much higher density than the larger core.

In reality, revolution rates on a ball do not affect its hitting power, only its driving power. Two identical balls thrown at identical speeds, one straight versus one thrown with a high rev rate, will still hit the pins with the same momentum, but the ball with the high rev rate will drive through the pins instead of deflecting off of them, thus resulting in much better pin action and carry.

Every bowler has a balance of speed versus revs for their particular style, and it is different for everyone. In general a low rev bowler will throw the ball slower so that the ball can bite and pick up driving power, while a high rev bowler will throw faster to get it further down the lane otherwise the ball will hook right off the lane.
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15.5# MoRich NSane LevRG
16# AMF Nighthawk (replacing soon)
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n00dlejester · « **Reply #23 on:** April 03, 2008, 08:28:24 AM »

Well said Tim! The last few posts cleared up a log of fog I had

Author Topic: Bigger core does mean more power (Read 7827 times)

Grayson

Bigger core does mean more power

Leftyhi-trak

Re: Bigger core does mean more power

nospareball

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dizzyfugu

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Leonidas

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dizzyfugu

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Leonidas

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Timotheus

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n00dlejester

Re: Bigger core does mean more power